Dzogchen Thogal: a Buddhist creative adaptation of a Daoist technique?

[ralis]

So which of the six lamps do you think you are using? (They aren't all Kati)

 

You are going to need to expand on that comment. Seems you are not in agreement.

 

I am not convinced that the Kati channel is a concrete structure but represents potential as opposed to a limited structure.

Edited June 18, 2016 by ralis

[Tibetan_Ice]

You are going to need to expand on that comment. Seems you are not in agreement.

 

I am not convinced that the Kati channel is a concrete structure but represents potential as opposed to a limited structure.

I believe that there are channels that go back to the visual cortex and also to the pineal from the eyes. That doesn't mean that the light goes back to the heart through the Kati.

 

Here is some info about the lamps in the leap over...

 

http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/collections/journals/ret/pdf/ret_08_02.pdf

[ralis]

  

Now that is interesting, thanks. Do you or anyone else here know the lineage names, what they call the practice(s) and if the practice(s) are being taught openly to Westerners?

 

Watch for Norbu's webcasts on Dzogchen.net and there are a few others that can be found on YouTube where a teacher is transmitting Yangti and so forth.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

From Taoist Yoga; Alchemy and Immortality, Lu K'uan Yü, Samuel Weiser 1970, (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

This seems to indicate that absolute void, which is not empty occurs "within" the body centers. I put within in parenthesis because within and without are not exactly the same at this point as they are to ordinary consciousness, but it does not seem that they are the thogal visions seen while gazing at the sky.

 

spiritual vitality will soar up to form a circle (of light) which is not void: Just as a note, it was references to early Thogal visions involving a "circle of light" in Wells early posts on Thogal, as well as the dissolution of the body that first interested me in Thogal and its possible connection with Taoist Yoga. Wells (under his previous name Zoom) has erased almost all of these posts, so I can't be sure exactly where I saw this in his early posts on Thogal.

I rarely see mention of the solar plexus and would you expand on this? When Reshad Feild came to Santa Fe he had all of his students breath into the solar plexus and out the heart center with a 7-1-7-1 rhythm. Feild would bilocate to his students and have conversations in real time and I would assume that phenomenon is a form of the light body?

 

Feild teaches from a Sufi lineage and is influenced by Gurdjieff.

To respond in a suitable way would require more time than I can devote to this matter today, however since you mention the Sufi path and bilocation, I will open this thread up to a wider cross cultural consideration of the topic by quoting from the work of the Renaissance Hermetic Neo-Platonist, Cornelius Agrippa on the “Light Body”:

 

Chapter xliii. Of the power of mans soul, in the mind, reason and imagination.

 

Mans soul consisteth of a mind, reason and imagination; the mind illuminates reason, reason floweth into the imagination: All is one soul. Reason unless it be illuminated by the mind, is not free from errour: but the mind giveth not light to reason, unless God enlighten, viz. the first light; for the first light is in God very far exceeding all understanding: wherefore it cannot be called an intelligible light; but this when it is infused into the mind, is made intellectuall, and can be understood: then when it is infused by the mind to the reason, it is made rationall, and cannot only be understood but also considered: then when it is infused by the reason into the phantasie [phantasy] of the soul, it is made not only cogitable, but also imaginable; yet it is not as yet corporeall; but when from hence it goeth into the Celestiall vehicle of the soul; it is first made corporeall, yet not manifestly sensible till it hath passed into the elementall body, either simple and Aerial, or compound, in the which the light is made manifestly visible to the eye; The Chaldean [Chaldaean] Philosophers considering this progresse of light, declare a certain wonderfull power of our mind: viz. that it may come to passe, that our mind being firmly fixed on God, may be filled with the divine power; and being so replenished with light, its beams being diffused through all the media, even to this grosse, dark, heavy, mortall body, it may endow it with abundance of light, and make it like the Stars, and equally shining, and also by the plenty of its beams and lightness lift it on high, as straw lifted up by the flame of fire, and can presently carry the body as a spirit into remote parts. So we read of Philip in the Acts of the Apostles, who baptizing the Eunuch in India, was presently found, in Azotus. The like we read of Habacuc in Daniel: so others going through the doors being shut, escaped both their keepers and imprisonment; as we read of Peter the Apostle and of Peter the Exorcist: He may the less wonder at this, who hath seen those famous melancholick men, who walk in their sleepes and passe through places even unpassible, and ascend even unaccessible places, and exercise the works of those that are awake, which they themselves being awake could not do; of the which things there is no other reason in nature, then a strong and exalted imagination: but this power is in every man, & it is in the soul of man from the root of his Creation; but it is varied in diverse men, in strength and weakness, and is encreased and diminished according to his exercise and use, by the which it is drawn forth from power into act, which thing he that rightly knoweth, can ascend by his knowledge, even untill his imaginative faculty doth transcend and is joyned with the universall power, which Alchindus, Bacon, and Gulielmus Parisiensis do call the sense of nature; Virgil the Etheriall sense, and Plato the sense of the vehicle: and his imagination is made most strong, when that etherial and Celestiall power is poured out upon it, by whose brightness it is comforted, untill it apprehend the species, notions and knowledge of true things, so that that which he thought in his mind, cometh to passe even as he thought, and it obtaineth so great power, that it can plunge, joyn and insinuate it self into the minds of men, and make them certain of his thoughts, and of his will and desire, even thorow large and remote spaces, as if they perceived a present object by their senses; and it can in little time do many things, as if they were done without time; yet these things are not granted to all, but to those whose imaginative and cogitative power is most strong and hath arrived to the end of speculation; and he is fitted to apprehend and manifest all things, by the splendour of the universall power, or intelligence and spirituall apprehension which is above him: and this is that necessary power, which everyone ought to follow and obey, who followeth the truth; if therefore now the power of the imagination is so great, that it can insinuate itself unto whom it pleaseth, being neither hindered nor let by any distance of time or place, and can sometimes draw its heavy body along with it, whither it imagineth and dreameth: There is no doubt but that the power of the mind is greater, if at any time it shall obtain its proper nature, and being no way oppressed by the allurements of the senses, shall persevere both uncorrupted and like it self; but now for example, that the souls abound with so plentifull Light of the Celestiall Stars, and hence, a very great abundance of light redoundeth into their bodies; so Moses face did shine, that the children of Israel could not behold him by reason of the brightness of his countenance; thus Socrates was transfigured, as we read, that in light he overcame the luciferous wheels of the Sun; So Zoroastes [Zoroaster] being transfigured, his body was taken up. So Eliah and Enoch ascended to heaven in a certain fiery chariot, so Paul was rapt up into the third heaven: So our bodies after the judgement of the world, shall be called Glorified, and in like manner be rapt up, and we may say by this means, shall shine as the Sun and Moon; which thing that it is possible, and hath formerly been done, Avicebron the Moore, and Avicen the Arabian and Hippocrates of Cous, and all the school of the Chaldeans [Chaldaeans] do acknowledge and confirm: Moreover it is reported in Histories, that Alexander the great being circumvented and in great danger in India, did so burn in mind, that he seemed to the Barbarians to cast forth light; the father of Theodoricus also is reported to have cast forth sparks of fire tilmugh his whole body; the same thing a wise man also delivered concerning himself, so that sparkling flames did break forth here and there even with a noise; neither is this power of the soul found in men only, but sometimes even in beasts, as in the horse of Tiberius, who seemed to send forth flames out of his mouth. But the mind is above fate in providence, therefore is not affected either with the influences of the heavenly bodies, or the qualities of naturall things; Religion therefore can only cure it; but the sensitiveness of the soul is in fate, above nature, which is in a certain manner the knot of the body and soul, and under fate, above the body; therefore it is changed by the influences of the heavenly bodies, and affected by the qualities of naturall and corporeall things: now I call the sensitiveness of the soul, that vivifying and rectifying power of the body, the originall of the senses; the soul it self doth manifest in this body its sensitive powers and perceiveth corporeall things by the body, and locally moveth the body, and governeth it in his place, and nourisheth it in a body. In this sensitiveness two most principal powers predominate; viz. one which is called the Phantasy, or imaginative or cogitative faculty, of whose power we have already spoken, where we have handled the passions of the soul: the other which is called the sense of nature, of the which also we have spoken, where we made mention of witchcraft. Man therefore by the nature of his body is under fate; the soul of man, by the sensitiveness moveth nature in Fate; but by the mind is above fate, in the order of providence; yet reason is free at its own choice; therefore the soul by reason ascendeth into the mind, where it is replenished with divine light; sometimes it descendeth into sensitiveness and is affected by the influences of the heavenly bodies, and qualities of naturall things, and is distracted by the passions and the encountring of sensible objects: sometimes the soul revolveth it selfe wholly into reason, searching out other things either by discourse, or by contemplating it self: for it is possible, that that part of the reason, which the Peripateticks call the possible Intellect, may be brought to this, that it may freely discourse and operate without conversion to his Phantasmes: for so great is the command of this reason, that as often as any thing incurreth either into the mind, or into the sensitiveness, or into nature, or into the body, it cannot passe into the soul, unless reason apply it self to it; by this means the soul perceiveth it self neither to see, nor hear, nor feel, nor that it suffereth any things by the externall senses, untill cogitative reason first apprehend it; but it apprehendeth it when it is at leisure, not when it earnestly gapeth after another thing, as we manifestly see by these who heed not those that they meet, when they more seriously think on something else. Know therefore that neither the superiour influences, nor naturall affections, nor sensations, nor passions either of the mind or body, nor any sensible thing whatsoever, can work or penetrate into the soul unless by the Judgement of reason it self. Therefore by its act, not by any extrinsecall violence, can the soul be either affected or disturbed, which thing even innumerable Martyrs have proved by their Martyrdom: So Anasarchus a Philosopher of Abdera, who, by the command of Nicocreontes a tyrant of Cyprus, being cast into a concave stone neglecting the pains of his body, while he was pounded with iron pestils [pestles], is reported to have said: pound, pound the shell of Anasarchus, thou nothing hurteth Anasarchus himself: The tyrant commanded his tongue to be cut off, but he with his own teeth did bite it off, and did spit it in the face of the Tyrant. (Cornelius Agrippa, Three Books on Occult Philosophy, Book III, Chapter xliii, at the Twilight Grotto, Emphasis mine, ZYD)

Apparently Feild left this world at the end of this last May.

[TheDustAutumn]

I rarely see mention of the solar plexus and would you expand on this? When Reshad Feild came to Santa Fe he had all of his students breath into the solar plexus and out the heart center with a 7-1-7-1 rhythm. Feild would bilocate to his students and have conversations in real time and I would assume that phenomenon is a form of the light body?

 

Feild teaches from a Sufi lineage and is influenced by Gurdjieff.

I'm very interested in Sufism. Do you have any recommendations of either books or teachers/lineages worth investigating?

[ralis]

I'm very interested in Sufism. Do you have any recommendations of either books or teachers/lineages worth investigating?

 

Send me a PM since this is OT.

Edited June 18, 2016 by ralis

[ralis]

I believe that there are channels that go back to the visual cortex and also to the pineal from the eyes. That doesn't mean that the light goes back to the heart through the Kati.

 

Here is some info about the lamps in the leap over...

 

http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/collections/journals/ret/pdf/ret_08_02.pdf

 

 

I would suggest going back and reading the OP as well as Jax's comments on this. My experience appears as a two way street in which sunlight if focused on correctly does have the effect discussed here. Your narrative implies that you are completely separate from external phenomena.

[Jax]

The light as a secondary cause illuminates the inner contents of the Kati.

 

This is from my thogal practice group on FB. Everyone here is welcome to join: Dzogchen Thogal

 

Thogal theory and Practice

 

I am writing this as a "quick start" instructional guide that will allow anyone to begin practicing thogal effectively and safely.

 

Thogal means "over the skull", "over the crest". It actually means to arrive instantly without jumping to get there, like a quantum leap. Thogal practice makes it very easy to experience, know and differentiate rigpa from all other mind states, in its purest form.

 

Rigpa is our primordial Buddha Mind that is intrinsically perfect, permanently. Because it's permanent, it's always present. But it is not our experience, rather our experience is other coarser states of mind as content, which are appearing within the space of changeless rigpa awareness.

 

By practicing thogal, rigpa itself becomes its own self-experience. What is experienced is its own penetrating transparency, insightful clarity, wisdoms, and absence of a "me" egoic identity, as well as the absence of the sense of an "external" universe. Eventually the physical body will dissolve into pure Light as the practice comes to perfect fruition.

 

Thogal focuses on the visual apparatus. That means we use our eyes as our path.

 

Traditionally we use the sun by looking towards the sun in early morning and late afternoon. One does not look directly at the sun but slightly underneath it or off to the side, and with sun glasses on. I find using one eye at a time works best. One squints so that the ball of the sun is no longer visible but only a diffraction pattern of colored rays and a background tapestry of circles as though similar to looking at a peacock's feather. Within that diffraction pattern you can see little round spheres that may have little circular rings within them as well. At first they may just look like this but completely round: @

Sample images are posted below. They get larger over time with consistent practice. They are called "thigles" in Tibetan. (Pronounced: teeglay)

 

One then begins to focus on one little sphere by not moving the eyes. You just gaze at it. So do just this much for several sessions. I recommend a safer and easy way to do thogal:

 

Use your iPhone or similar phone with only the black screen. Hold it down toward your waist, angle it so you can look down and see the reflection of the sun. Squint your eyes until the ball disappears into the light refraction and continue as described above. This allows practicing throughout the day, even at noon. But be sure to wear sun glasses. Between the UV absorption in the phone's black glass and your sun glasses, no harmful UV rays should be entering your eyes. It's only the UV rays that damage the eyes. I recommend 20 minute sessions. 10 minutes with each eye. Start with one session per day and add a session later in the day if desired. But practice everyday. The effects will last and are cumulative.

 

If sun is not available you can flip the phone around and use the flashlight feature as though looking at the sun, but no sunglasses are necessary. You can also use an ordinary light bulb.

 

There are specific recommended postures for during thogal practice but I have not found them necessary and Namkhai Norbu stated that once the practice is working the postures are no longer necessary. I have taught dozens of people this approach in my retreats and it works for everyone without exception.

 

Once you are a little familiar wth the inner landscape and can focus on these thigle spheres easily, then while looking at the spheres ask your self "who or what is doing the looking?". "Where exactly is the observer?" Is there a "someone" looking or is there just empty perception?".

 

Also from time to time notice the empty space between the thigle and the place from where you are observing. Notice that completely clear and transparent space. Sense that space behind you and all around you and through you.

 

Also notice your state of inner empty clarity, transparent and vividly awake; from time to time.

 

Pay less attention to the condition of the thigles than to your empty awareness that is looking.

 

After you finish, look closely at various textures and surfaces close up and notice the sharpness of detail. Sometimes you can actually feel the textures by sight alone. Vision will become amazingly clear along with a sense of transparency and absence of selfness. It's this transparency (zangthal) and absence of selfing that transforms the mind completely into its own vivid emptiness. There is nothing to think about or workout. The practice does it all automatically.

 

There are many more aspects to all of this. To learn more and for additional support please join our thogal group here at FB, Dzogchen Thogal.

 

I am posting this on the general Dzogchen group to encourage those interested to practice. There is currently lots of misinformation out there regarding thogal and I would like to keep this technology available in an easy and workable format that can bring infinite benefit to any competent practitioner that wants to learn.

 

There are several lineage authorized books on the open public market now that explain thogal in complete detail. Now the traditional lineage Lamas have allowed these thogal teachings to be propagated broadly for everyone's benefit also out of a fear that these precious teachings may disappear eventually.

 

I received the thogal transmission and practice instructions privately in 1985 through the Yeshe Lama text as presented to me by a Nyingma Lama who was taught by Dudjum Rinpoche. I later received the detailed Bon transmission of Shardze Rinpoche's text "Heart Drops of the Dharmakaya" trekchod and thogal instructions personally from the Bon Menri Lopon. Shardza Rinpoche attained the "rainbow body of light" in the 1930's. Neither of my teachers asked me to keep these teachings secret, nor have I pledged any samaya regarding not sharing any of the Dzogchen teachings with others.

 

Please share your successes and insights in our thogal group as well as your practice issues.

 

I recommend reading my book and gaining familiarity with all the practices in the appendix before commencing thogal practice: "The Natural Bliss of Being", as well as attending one of my thogal retreats.

 

May all beings benefit! Emaho!

 

www.wayoflight.com

[Wells]

.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Wells

[rex]

Now that is interesting, thanks. Do you or anyone else here know the lineage names, what they call the practice(s) and if the practice(s) are being taught openly to Westerners?

  

Watch for Norbu's webcasts on Dzogchen.net and there are a few others that can be found on YouTube where a teacher is transmitting Yangti and so forth.

Thank you. Since the thread posits Daoist antecedents to Dzogchen Thogal I am interested in the extant Daoist lineage methods. There have been a couple of suggestive pointers already.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Now to put a little context on my quote of Agrippa on the Light Body. 

 

Most people reading it probably would have misinterpreted a lot of it because none of the technical terms, such as "soul" or "mind" are used in a way that is now common usage. The ontology and psychology being used by Agrippa is largely that of Plotinus, a Third Century CE philosopher in the Platonic tradition.

The Wikipedia article is OK to start

 

But hardly satisfactory, so it is necessary to read something like these:

The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

to even catch a glimmer of what Plotinus is talking about.

But, basically what Jax is talking about here:
 

Rigpa is our primordial Buddha Mind that is intrinsically perfect, permanently. Because it's permanent, it's always present. But it is not our experience, rather our experience is other coarser states of mind as content, which are appearing within the space of changeless rigpa awareness.

Is what Plotinus would call “Mind” and then this:
 

By practicing thogal, rigpa itself becomes its own self-experience. What is experienced is its own penetrating transparency, insightful clarity, wisdoms, and absence of a "me" egoic identity, as well as the absence of the sense of an "external" universe. Eventually the physical body will dissolve into pure Light as the practice comes to perfect fruition.

Can be interpreted as similar to what Agrippa is describing.

There is of course more to this and I will try to enlarge upon this at some point.

As a note, I took Platonism as my “working model” of “reality” back around 1980, after two decades of study and practice of Eurasian esoteric teachings, because of its ability to analyze other spiritual traditions in a systematic and rigorous way. This was not an simple transition because after my first encounter with Plato as a teenager, I rejected Platonism completely, but ten years later, when I started to study it in depth for historical reasons, I began to see its usefulness as a worldview. It still took me several years of study to get to the point of adopting it my “working model”, but thirty-five or so years later I still see it as having a lot to commend itself.

 

Finally, thanks again to Jax for joining the conversation.

[Jax]

Thank you. Since the thread posits Daoist antecedents to Dzogchen Thogal I am interested in the extant Daoist lineage methods. There have been a couple of suggestive pointers already.

[Jax]

[ralis]

Norbu doesn't teach Yangti on his webcasts...

 

I was referring to Gyalwang Drukpa.

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Yangti

[ralis]

You "doubt somehow" and without being able to pinpoint exact reasons because you are brainwashed into believing so.

Seemingly many people who want to overcome all delusion are on the way exactly contrary to their goal...

 

Absolutely!

 

In regards to brainwashing, the whole idea is to have control of one's own mind without baseless rules and authoritarian control. That is the beginning of self liberation!

[themiddleway]

Let me know when any of you  get this  far please

Edited June 21, 2016 by themiddleway

[ralis]

Let me know when any of you  get this  far please

 

How far are you talking about?

[Jax]

I don't see how this Yang ti is Yang Ti like Dung Tso Repa's Dark Retreat practice.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I introduced Agrippa and Plotinus to this topic to extend an idea introduced by ralis here:
 

What he is saying is that thogal is cross cultural and no one or group owns it. That is to say there is no copyright.

Into areas that most people don't associate with “Eastern Wisdom”. I will make a last post about these Western traditions on this thread and then return to the discussion of Daoist teachings relevant to this.

First in regard to Plato, elsewhere on the Dao Bums I have said about the studies which I undertook in the late seventies to understand Plato and his influence on Renaissance Occult Philosophy, which involved my reading a great deal of the secondary scholarly literature on Plato and classical philosophy before turning to read the dialogues themselves:
 

Nothing in the secondary literature really prepared me for all the details of the dialogues themselves, many of which were very interesting from an esoteric point of view, but I will get to that later in this series.

Of particular relevance to this thread are the dialogues which contain concepts which can only be described as “proto-tantric” in the sense of harnessing Eros to the task of spiritual development. To go back to another quote from ralis:
 

When I took my first so called initiation way back in 1987, Lama Rinchen said that I was guaranteed full enlightenment in seven lifetimes.

Well, Plato gives teachings which he claims will liberate one from rebirth in three lifetimes. Who would have thought? Certainly not 99.44% of the people to whom I bring up the idea of Plato as a source of “mystical” doctrines.  Of course it is possible that the "full enlightenment" mentioned above may not be the same as freedom from rebirth.  By the way, I don't necessarily accept or reject either claim.  Claims of freedom from rebirth like like those of immortality, which end when you die, end when you are reborn, and there really is no way to evaluate them.

Now one quote from Plotinus which I think is relevant to some of the issues in this thread:
 

Emancipated Souls, for the whole period of their sojourn there above, have transcended the Spirit-nature and the entire fatality of birth and all that belongs to this visible world, for they have taken up with them that Hypostasis of the Soul in which the desire of earthly life is vested. This Hypostasis may be described as the distributable Soul, for it is what enters bodily forms and multiplies itself by this division among them. (Plotinus, Enneads, Trans. Stephen Mackenna and B. S. Page, Ennead 3, Book 4, Section 6; Our Tutelary Spirit, Internet Sacred Text Archive)

A lot of the above is terminology that will not be clear to the general reader, but Empancipated Souls are those free from rebirth and the distributable Soul is the Soul root of reproduction and thus of jing as seminal fluid, so that what Plotinus is talking about is the idea that the aspect of the soul at the root of worldly reproduction has been “taken” up into a higher level of being and thus the soul is not attracted to “earthly life”.

And I see these as relevant to the practices considered preparatory to such teachings as Thogal and Daoist yoga, and it is to the question of the nature of these practices and whether these are necessary or not, to which I will address myself in the next few posts.

[Jax]

No one has ever been liberated or born or reincarnated:

 

Diamond Sutra:

 

SECTION XXV. THE ILLUSION OF EGO

 

"Subhuti, what do you think? Let no one say the Tathagata cherishes the idea: I must liberate all living beings. Allow no such thought, Subhuti. Wherefore? Because in reality there are no living beings to be liberated by the Tathagata. If there were living beings for the Tathagata to liberate, He would partake in the idea of selfhood, personality entity, and separate individuality."

[ralis]

No one has ever been liberated or born or reincarnated:

 

Diamond Sutra:

 

SECTION XXV. THE ILLUSION OF EGO

 

"Subhuti, what do you think? Let no one say the Tathagata cherishes the idea: I must liberate all living beings. Allow no such thought, Subhuti. Wherefore? Because in reality there are no living beings to be liberated by the Tathagata. If there were living beings for the Tathagata to liberate, He would partake in the idea of selfhood, personality entity, and separate individuality."

 

 

I take exception with this idea of non existence. Your narrative appears as an absolute rigidly defined ideology. A far more elegant way of defining this is that the phenomenal world as quantified by various languages, appears as an abstraction. Why? Primitive language skills that humans possess does not in any way describe the phenomenal world.  E.g. the computer screen that I am watching at this time appears a process as well as all phenomena are and the term LED screen is a useful convention so that communication can take place.

 

To deny that no one has been liberated etc. misses the point entirely. Especially, the underlying dynamic process.

 

Given the density of this problem, I can write more clearly later when I can more clearly gather my thoughts.

Edited June 22, 2016 by ralis

[ralis]

What I just posted appears as quite easily not well understood.

Edited June 22, 2016 by ralis

[ralis]

Why not let the visual thinking part of the brain dominate as opposed to the belief that the verbal should somehow take precedence. Visual appears much more creative and flexible.

Edited June 22, 2016 by ralis

[Tibetan_Ice]

No one has ever been liberated or born or reincarnated:

 

Diamond Sutra:

 

SECTION XXV. THE ILLUSION OF EGO

 

"Subhuti, what do you think? Let no one say the Tathagata cherishes the idea: I must liberate all living beings. Allow no such thought, Subhuti. Wherefore? Because in reality there are no living beings to be liberated by the Tathagata. If there were living beings for the Tathagata to liberate, He would partake in the idea of selfhood, personality entity, and separate individuality."

Taken out of context this quote seems quite nihilistic and demonstrates a lack of knowledge, care and attention to Buddhist concepts.

 

One only has to read the wiki to understand why the Tagatha would state such a statement.

 

From the wiki:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Sutra

 

A traditional pocket-sized folding edition of the Diamond Sūtra in Chinese

The Vajracchedikā Prajñāpāramitā Sutra contains the discourse of the Buddha to a senior monk, Subhuti.[16] Its major themes are anatman (not-self), the emptiness of all phenomena (though the term 'Shunyata' itself does not appear in the text),[17] the liberation of all beings without attachment and the importance of spreading and teaching the Diamond sutra itself. In his commentary on the Diamond Sūtra, Hsing Yun describes the four main points from the sūtra as giving without attachment to self, liberating beings without notions of self and other, living without attachment, and cultivating without attainment.[18] According to Shigenori Nagamoto the major goal of the Diamond sutra is: "an existential project aiming at achieving and embodying a non-discriminatory basis for knowledge" or "the emancipation from the fundamental ignorance of not knowing how to experience reality as it is."[19]

 

In the sūtra, the Buddha has finished his daily walk to Sravasti with the monks to gather offerings of food, and he sits down to rest. Elder Subhūti comes forth and asks the Buddha a question: "How, Lord, should one who has set out on the bodhisattva path take his stand, how should he proceed, how should he control the mind?"[20] What follows is a dialogue regarding the nature of the 'perfection of insight' (Prajñāpāramitā) and the nature of ultimate reality (which is illusory and empty). The Buddha begins by answering Subhuti by stating that he will bring all living beings to final nirvana – but that after this "no living being whatsoever has been brought to extinction".[20] This is because a bodhisattva does not see beings through reified concepts such as 'person', 'soul' or 'self', but sees them through the lens of perfect understanding, as empty of inherent, unchanging self.

 

 

A Nepalese sculpture of a Vajra.

The Buddha continues his exposition with similar statements which use negation to point out the emptiness of phenomena, merit, the Dharma (Buddha's teaching), the stages of enlightenment and the Buddha himself. Japanese Buddhologist, Hajime Nakamura, calls this negation the 'logic of not' (Sanskrit: na prthak).[19] Further examples of the Diamond sutra's via negativa include statements such as:[20]

 

As far as ‘all dharmas’ are concerned, Subhuti, all of them are dharma-less. That is why they are called ‘all dharmas.’

Those so-called ‘streams of thought,’ Subhuti, have been preached by the Tathagata as streamless. That is why they are called ‘streams of thought.’

‘All beings,’ Subhuti, have been preached by the Tathagata as beingless. That is why they are called ‘all beings.’

“And whenever the Tathagata preaches about a ‘trigalactic megagalactic world-system,’ that has been preached by the Tathagata as systemless. That is why it is called ‘a trigalactic megagalactic world-system.’

The Buddha is generally thought to be trying to help Subhūti unlearn his preconceived, limited notions of the nature of reality. Emphasizing that all phenomena are ultimately illusory, he teaches that true enlightenment cannot be grasped until one has set aside attachment to them in any form.

 

Another reason why the Buddha makes use of negation is because language reifies concepts and this can lead to attachment to those concepts, but true wisdom is seeing that nothing is fixed or stable, hence according to the Diamond sutra thoughts such as "I have obtained the state of an Arhat" or "I will bring living beings to nirvana" does not even occur in an enlightened one's mind because this would be "seizing upon a self...seizing upon a living being, seizing upon a soul, seizing upon a person."[20] Indeed, the sutra goes on to state that anyone who says such things should not be called a bodhisattva. According to David Kalupahana the goal of the Diamond sutra is "one colossal attempt to avoid the extremist use of language, that is, to eliminate any ontological commitment to concepts while at the same time retaining their pragmatic value, so as not to render them totally empty of meaning."[17] Kalupahana explains the negation of the Diamond sutra by seeing an initial statement as an erroneous affirmation of substance or selfhood, which is then critiqued ("'all dharmas' are dharmaless"), and then finally reconstructed ("that is why they are called 'all dharmas'") as being conventional and dependently originated. Kalupahana explains this final reconstruction as meaning: "that each concept, instead of either representing a unique entity or being an empty term, is a substitute for a human experience which is conditioned by a variety of factors. As such, it has pragmatic meaning and communicative power without being absolute in any way."[17] According to Paul Harrison the Diamond sutra's central argument here is that "all dharmas lack a self or essence, or to put it in other words, they have no core ontologically, they only appear to exist separately and independently by the power of conventional language, even though they are in fact dependently originated."[21]

 

The mind of someone who practices the Prajñāpāramitā or 'perfection of insight' is then a mind free from fixed substantialist or 'self' concepts:

 

"However, Lord, the idea of a self will not occur to them, nor will the idea of a living being, the idea of a soul, or the idea of a person occur. Why is that? Any such idea of a self is indeed idealess, any idea of a living being, idea of a soul, or idea of a person is indeed idealess. Why is that? Because the Buddhas and Lords are free of all ideas."[20]

 

Throughout the teaching, the Buddha repeats that successful memorization and elucidation of even a four-line extract of it is of incalculable merit, better than giving an entire world system filled with gifts and can bring about enlightenment. Section 26 also ends with a four-line gatha:

 

All conditioned phenomena

 

Are like a dream, an illusion, a bubble, a shadow,

Like dew or a flash of lightning;

Thus we shall perceive them.”[22]

 

Paul Harrison's translation states:[20]

 

"A shooting star, a clouding of the sight, a lamp, An illusion, a drop of dew, a bubble, A dream, a lightning’s flash, a thunder cloud— This is the way one should see the conditioned."

 

 

I've bolded some of the salient parts of that quote.

[Jax]

No Self

 

Reincarnation; A Deeper Inquiry

 

Looking at reincarnation from the deepest level possible reveals that no entity or self actually transmigrates. When asleep at night, the subconscious mind projects "you", your body, your thoughts, your sense of identity, your clothes, your emotional state and your actions. It also projects the dream landscape and all the cast of characters along with what they say and do. When "you" travelled from one location to another distant location in the dream, no "you" actually travelled or moved but instead the "you" was being projected as though "traveling" or moving. The landscape didn't pre-exist to travel through nor did "you".

 

Likewise, our world landscape, our "self", body, thoughts, identity, emotions, clothing, and actions are being projected from a deeper level or source, like energetic holograms instead of being just dreamed appearances.

 

This also applies after the "death" of the physical body. The entity we seem to be in the after-life or bardo is also merely a projection from a deeper source. If it is possible to slow down the projection to see the individual movie frames, one would see individual bursts of cognition that contain all the details of that momentary flash of consciousness. Between the flashes of consciousness as the movie content, there exists only emptiness. Then a micro-second later the next movie frame flashes forth with no physical connection to the last movie frame. But when these movie frames speed up it seems there is an unbroken continuity of a self in a stable and pre-existing environment.

 

Seeing this is similar to seeing the empty space between your last thought and before the next thought arises. The individual thoughts in this case are the current bursts of cognition arising from emptiness.

 

During profound moments mental stillness, this gap can be noticed. It's a moment devoid of content. Then the next burst of consciousness arises with a sense of self and its topic. That cognition ceases and the empty gap is all that remains. Then out of that empty gap the next sense of self arises with its topic. So you see there is no self continuing during the empty gaps. Seeing this its realized that no self exists, except as the momentary sensation of one that immediately vanished to be replaced by the next version of "me".

 

The "entity" that seems to exist in the after-life or bardo is just this momentary projection as a burst of cognition of a "me" moment. But no "me" is existing before or after the micro-burst of cognition. Because of the rapidity of the micro-bursts of cognition, it seems like a stable "self" or "me" is continuing in time. Besides this false impression of a continuing "me", there is no other continuing identity as a self. There is no personal "you" at any time.

 

For this to be known, the mind must slow down to the point of being able to observe the individual bursts of cognition followed by an empty gap which is then followed by the next burst of cognition. The mind-movie is now being seen as individual, separate picture frames of cognition.

 

This is like being in a dark room and to swirl a lit incense stick rapidly in a circular fashion. To someone observing it would look like one circle of light. Slow the whirling and the circle disappears and only a single point of light can be found. Likewise the sense of there being a continuous self or "me" disappears when we slow the thinking mind down. All that remains is the empty gap and that empty gap can't be defined. It's our true nature as the empty creative Source. But it's not just a blank emptiness; it always reveals its infinite potential by the arising of the next burst of cognition.

 

Seeing this is the wisdom prajna of self emptiness. Slow down the movie frames and the illusion of a continuous self disappears. There is no self, was no self, never will be a self to become enlightened or to die or to reincarnate or to be reborn!

 

Since the micro-burst of a "me" self has no duration in time, how can't it perform actions that result in karma? And since that self disappeared in the same micro-second, who gets the karma?

 

So how does practice benefit this non-existent self (without any duration)that doesn't exist long enough to practice or to do anything?