Yes! Hurley stretch machines are still available!

[Peregrino]

I didn't put this in "Off Topic" since I consider stretching to be such a fundamental practice for physical and emotional well-being. I know some yoga traditionalists think stretching machines go against "the spirit of subtle realization," but I think you can combine yoga postures and intense, machine-assisted PNF (isometric) stretching in a most complementary and harmonious fashion. Recently I've been doing a lot of yoga, but I still don't feel complete unless I do the PNF, which really *strengthens* your muscles in elongated positions (and leads to faster increases in flexibility than static stretching). Still, just one more ingredient seems to be missing to get me back into full side splits--a stretch machine!

 

By combining Kurz's PNF method with the use of a Hurley stretch machine (a model originally called "The Rack," but later marketed less sensationalistically), I have attained full side splits over different periods of my life. (Kurz himself has dismissed stretching machines for his own dogmatic reasons, saying, "We never used them in the old Soviet Bloc, and there's no reason to make use of them now." However, I always found that combining his method with the machine was better for both strength and flexibility than just focusing on either element.) Now that I've discovered the Hurley machine is still available, I can't wait to strap myself in again!

 

http://www.hurleystretcher.com/

 

Since leaving my last Hurley stretcher behind in a move some years ago, I tried other machines with less impressive results. I have also managed to attain full splits at times without the machine (e.g. when I was studying abroad during my college years), but man, it is SO much faster to combine the PNF with the ol' rack!

 

Another benefit I've found in the Hurley stretcher is that it's easier on knees than trying splits from an upright position with the hips rotated forward. Also, since I tend to need concrete data in order to motivate me to progress, I LOVE the way these machines tell you exactly how many degrees you're stretching, so your goal-setting can be that much more precise as you shoot for daily, incremental progress. There's also an extra "fine-tuning" gear that allows you to increase up to 15 degrees more from the locked position as your muscles adapt to the stretch. Finally, the isometric contractions come easier in this position than in the upright splits position, making machine-stretching a great way to increase adductor strength, and a real aide in developing a freaky-deaky BJJ "rubber guard"!

 

OK, I'll breathe deeply now, but please don't take this a a cheesy paid endorsement--I'm just a stretching geek, and when something really works, I like to shout it from the rooftops!

[Oolong Rabbit]

Hi Peregrino,

 

Do you think this would help one achieve full lotus? It seems like it primarily stretches the groin, and I think full lotus also needs the gluteus maximus loosened up.

[Mal]

Actaully anyone got any hints for doing a full lotus?

 

Always wanted to, but its painfull for me and I'm not even close in terms of flexability. Not to bothered about it, but apparently I will need to be able to do one in a few years...

 

Better start stretching

[Peregrino]

Hi Peregrino,

 

Do you think this would help one achieve full lotus? It seems like it primarily stretches the groin, and I think full lotus also needs the gluteus maximus loosened up.

 

Hi OR,

 

I don't think the stretch machines do much to isolate the glutes, though it might be possible by varying the position (the seat back is adjustable). I do a series of glute stretches apart from splits training. For me, groin stretches, whether the side split or butterfly position, have helped me towards the lotus. I find my main hindrance to doing the lotus for extended periods of time are my ankles and knees. In order to loosen up the ankles and knees, I find the "chill dog" stretches in Eddie Bravo's book _Mastering the Rubber Guard_ are very effective, though these can be found in traditional yoga books, along with lots of others. (Bravo accentuates the full lotus position because it is similar to the very high rubber guard he uses when grappling.)

 

As with other areas of flexibility, I believe joint integrity is very important when working to loosen up the ankles. Recently someone twisted my ankle pretty roughly while I had him in the rubber guard, but I've found some rehab exercises and plan on incorporating regular calf and shin strengthening exercises into my regime.

 

For some reason Kurz is dismissive of the need for lotus-type flexibility, but here again I would disagree with him, because besides its centrality to yoga, Eddie Bravo has shown that lotus mastery can be quite helpful in martial arts!

 

OK, sorry if that seems tangential, but I'll get back to you when I have a straight answer re: stretch machines and glute stretching.

 

PS

I've applied PNF contractions to good effect for glute stretches, but am only now easing into their application to ankle stretches. Eddie Bravo claims there are no bones to break when working the lotus, but I do want to avoid any strains. Still, I think PNF can work for ankle flexibility too.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Peregrino

[Mal]

For some reason Kurz is dismissive of the need for lotus-type flexibility

 

Yes, I like his stretching book but he does not seem to like the lotus, sort of why I never bothered either as I never has a use for it. But it does seem that I should start practicing.

 

p.s. the Rubber Guard sound intresting, I've done some BJJ but I'm crap.

[agharta]

I would be careful with Kurz' stuff. People have hurt themselves taking it too fast. That's true of general yoga as well. I agree with Kurz that dynamic flexibility is more important than static.

[Peregrino]

I would be careful with Kurz' stuff. People have hurt themselves taking it too fast. That's true of general yoga as well. I agree with Kurz that dynamic flexibility is more important than static.

 

Some people do get injured, but that's becuase they don't actually follow his very thorough instructions and precautions--like people who started out stiff as a board trying to do the signature side split in suspension after just two weeks! Kurz's method is definitely much faster than static stretching methods, but it still must be done rationally--one of the reasons he recommends some form of strength training (whether with weights or bodyweight) to develop joint integrity.

 

I find dynamic flexibility is indeed the most useful in daily life and the easiest to maintain, though I think even martial artists can benefit from the kind of "static active" flexibility (e.g. standing while maintaining one leg in a high raised position). Kurz says that's only necessary for gymnasts or wushu stylists, but I think it's also great for developing balance for other activities such as surfing or grappling. Also, I have to make another respectful divergence from Kurz and take a line from Pavel Tsatsouline. For all Pavel's marketing excesses, he does make a convincing point that you should work on developing at least *some* static active flexibility while developing dynamic flexibility--again, for the sake of joint integrity.

 

Mind you, Kurz is still the stretching MASTER for me, but I think he needs a little tweaking.

 

With regards to the rubber guard, there are some great highlights of its effectiveness on YouTube:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b4nqem6LmA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDz1jeWWJIk

(An inspiring "pee-wee" example!)

(Bravo demonstrating it himself)

 

Also, here's a clip of Eddie Bravo demonstrating his lotus mastery and talking about its application to BJJ:

 

Can't get enough of the rubber guard! There are so many important reasons to stretch, but it's a real bonus that the right amount of flexibility will surprise the heck out of opponents in grappling situations, and give you loads and loads more options than you have with just the traditional guard.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Peregrino

[joeblast]

Actaully anyone got any hints for doing a full lotus?

 

Always wanted to, but its painfull for me and I'm not even close in terms of flexability. Not to bothered about it, but apparently I will need to be able to do one in a few years...

 

Better start stretching

I'm interested in that too. I've been stretching for years, although not necessarily in prep for full lotus. Mostly to keep rigor mortis in my back at bay

[Peregrino]

Here's something for inspiration!

 

http://www.contortionhomepage.com/gloss3.html

 

It doesn't actually tell you how to do the full lotus, but it did introduce some new terms to me, such as "oversplit." Incidentally, at my best on the Hurley rack, I achieved an over split of 225 degrees, but my more immediate goal these days is to get back to 180.

 

PS

Actually, I found some advice here on training for the full lotus--could be helpful:

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php?topic=4932.0;wap2

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php?PHPSE...pic=4932.5;wap2

 

And I'm sure this article, "How to Grow a Lotus" (scroll down--it's the second on the page), is excellent, but unfortunately, the pictures aren't showing on my computer!

 

http://membres.lycos.fr/zenmontpellier/Lotus-english.html

 

Attaining a comfortable full lotus (i.e., one I can easily hold for an hour) is now a major goal for me too, though I think ankle stability is crucial, so I want to do all I can to make all the muscles and tendons involved as strong as possible. PNF contractions themselves will have a strengthening effect, but I'll need to do more calf and shin work (e.g. curling a dumbbell held between my feet) as well. I believe (unlike Kurz, apparently) that it is possible to have ankles that are both very flexible and strong.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Peregrino