you are the cause of your own suffering

[silent thunder]

Well said Marblehead. 

[Radiant]

I'm curious how you address circumstances that are out of your control then in your model. ie. the plane your family is in is struck by lightning and crashes into the ocean.

 

Should you not mourn? Suffering is entirely natural. Suppressing it leads only to delusion and imbalance. Even if you knew why you felt a certain way; it wouldn't change a damn thing would it?

Edited June 26, 2016 by Radiant

[Marblehead]

Sure, mourning is fine.  (If done for the right reasons.)  But we mourn, pay our respects and then move on.  To live our lose every day for the rest of our life is far too extreme.

[9th]

This is imo an absolutely necessary understanding if one is to find healing.

 

As long as people think something other than themselves is the cause of their problems, there's no possibility of true healing.

 

YOU create your own experience; YOU choose either love or fear; YOU create either a happy or unhappy life.

 

If you blame something or someone outside of yourself, you'll forever see yourself as a victim and never find salvation.

 

 

This is only a superficial level of understanding, it doesnt pierce deeply enough into the reality of everyones subjugation to the manifest world, as it is.  In simple terms, you cannot control the weather - you cannot "determine your own reality" by cancelling a rainstorm.  You can choose to put on a rain coat - that is how you "determine your reality" in regards to the weather.

 

The problem I have seen in many of these thoughts, and other similar "revelations" influenced by the traditional methods and scriptures, writings, etc. - is they always reflect back to the idea of the self as the "owner" or "doer" or some such absolute position.

 

The legacy of the ancient wisdom is still very much in effect, very influential - and with that is all the psychological and social mechanisms which were appropriate for dealing with the world and other people, at that time.  These days, you cannot apply the same influences without creating some big problems along the way.  Its all part of the process of maturation, but to assume that ancient wisdom and the perspectives involved are always correct and appropriate is a real error.  Ancient times were quite different - especially in regards to society and how people are regarded, but also in countless small ways as well.

 

What seems all too lacking is some very real insight into the material of self-nature, in regards to the composition of the elements, the forces which move them, and so forth.  Does this human body need food?  Is your self causing you to need food?

 

Of course there is always lip service!!  Hell this forum is practically nothing but lip service, amongst all the other "entertaining" bits.  But its quite easy to tell who is bullshitting when you know what to look for.

 

Insight isnt a quote, a slogan, a motto, a koan, a poem.  You cannot see a movie unless light is projecting through the film onto the screen, but the light is not the movie... and it never changes, it just blinks endlessly.  You try to show someone the light, they will say "hey - wheres the movie?" or "hey where can I find a movie about light?". 

[Radiant]

A s

 

This is only a superficial level of understanding, it doesnt pierce deeply enough into the reality of everyones subjugation to the manifest world, as it is.  In simple terms, you cannot control the weather - you cannot "determine your own reality" by cancelling a rainstorm.  You can choose to put on a rain coat - that is how you "determine your reality" in regards to the weather.

 

The problem I have seen in many of these thoughts, and other similar "revelations" influenced by the traditional methods and scriptures, writings, etc. - is they always reflect back to the idea of the self as the "owner" or "doer" or some such absolute position.

 

The legacy of the ancient wisdom is still very much in effect, very influential - and with that is all the psychological and social mechanisms which were appropriate for dealing with the world and other people, at that time.  These days, you cannot apply the same influences without creating some big problems along the way.  Its all part of the process of maturation, but to assume that ancient wisdom and the perspectives involved are always correct and appropriate is a real error.  Ancient times were quite different - especially in regards to society and how people are regarded, but also in countless small ways as well.

 

What seems all too lacking is some very real insight into the material of self-nature, in regards to the composition of the elements, the forces which move them, and so forth.  Does this human body need food?  Is your self causing you to need food?

 

Of course there is always lip service!!  Hell this forum is practically nothing but lip service, amongst all the other "entertaining" bits.  But its quite easy to tell who is bullshitting when you know what to look for.

 

Insight isnt a quote, a slogan, a motto, a koan, a poem.  You cannot see a movie unless light is projecting through the film onto the screen, but the light is not the movie... and it never changes, it just blinks endlessly.  You try to show someone the light, they will say "hey - wheres the movie?" or "hey where can I find a movie about light?". 

 

Hmm. A good post. Some aspects of it resonated with me. However, one should not declare things as impossible because you have never experienced it.

[Marblehead]

However, one should not declare things as impossible because you have never experienced it.

 

Yeah, that's sometimes difficult for me.  If logic and rationale are not within a statement then I normally have to challenge the statement.  I try to not set limits but there are limits to limiting.

[roger]

The only part which has a free will to choose happiness or suffering is that which is free, so conditioning has no choice whether conditioning is positive or negative because it is what it is and has no choice to be different than it is. So if ones awareness is stuck in their negative conditioning they can't necessarily chose not to be because they are not in contact with that part which is free to chose differently. 

 

The irony being the part which is free isn't actually an individual "I" as the "I" is always conditioned, so we as separate individuals don't have a choice, rather only that which is already free has a choice, so really there is no free will to chose suffering or happiness when we perceive ourselves to exist as separate beings.

 

 

The thing is that the conditioned parts of us are choosing, unconsciously, to be conditioned.

 

But just because the choice is made unconsciously doesn't mean we, or any part of us, isn't "free," it just means we don't consciously feel free or recognize our freedom.

 

I believe we all have only one will- the will of our divine nature. That's the will of every part of us. There's only an illusion of conflict, and even the existence of that illusion is our will.

 

Our will precedes our conditioning, it doesn't follow it.

Edited July 5, 2016 by roger

[Marblehead]

Interesting concepts in that post regarding conditioning.  Perhaps conditioning vs free will works both ways?

[Jim D.]

Simple Concept to understand. When I say pink elephants what do you think of? If

 

 I tell you just lost all your money in the Market and you are pennyless what do you think of? 

 

You just got picked up on an old warrant, what do you feel...where do your thoughts take you?

 

Your sister just got all the money at the Will reading. What do you feel? And you're homeless?

Edited July 6, 2016 by Jim D.

[Marblehead]

Good job at confusing the concept.

 

[silent thunder]

I'm often confused... I wonder if that means I'm a concept.

although correlation does not mean causation...

[Jim D.]

What are you confused about? It could be a symptom of early stage Alzheimers. Although, I did work on a Traumatic Brain Injury Unit in a Nursing Home. I had a patient that insisted that his luggage was still at the train station. Kept insisting. I tried to reason with him. Wrong! So, I finally told him that I would tell his sister about the problem, and have her pick up his luggage the next day. He was going through "Sundowners" and was agitated to begin with. He accepted my suggestion and calmed down. His sister had a lot of power over him. He respected her.

 

I could probably do a Mini Mental examination to determine if there are any symptoms pointing toward brain dysfunction. Yes? Well here we go. What day is it? What time is it? What town do you live in? What season are we in? Repeat after me, table, pencil, chair. Now remember these words because I am going to come back to them and ask you to repeat them.

 

What? You are confused already? Well all right then. Who is your next of kin? And do you have a Living Will in place? O,K, if you remember to, get back to me with this information. :-)

[Marblehead]

So you want me to remember that the elephant is pink?  Well, elephants aren't pink.  They are a greyish color.

 

Yes, talk about reality only when talking with someone who is having trouble with being aware of reality.

 

I won't talk with you about the people under your bed who are trying to kill you.  There is no one under your bed.

[C T]

suddenly the thread title takes on a new Shine!!! 

[Marblehead]

Suffering is rooted in fear.  Fear is rooted in the unknown.  The unknown is simply those things we do not yet know.  Question everything.

[Jim D.]

I was trying to help out Silent Thunder. The Thunder in his head is the Alzheimer's coming on and it is Silent.

 

MH you aw right!!!!!

[Marblehead]

I was trying to help out Silent Thunder. The Thunder in his head is the Alzheimer's coming on and it is Silent.

 

 

Silent Thunder is fine.  Yeah, he sometimes thinks too much and gets himself confused.  But then he meditates, attains the state of wu wei and all is well again until he starts thinking again.

[silent thunder]

Haha... you guys crack up my confusion with your incessant word play... good stuff!

[C T]

Haha... you guys crack up my confusion with your incessant word play... good stuff!

Aha! you got trekcho'd!! 

[Jim D.]

Seems like Silent Thunder should be more of a feeling man and tone down the "static in the attick."  How you like being tagged teamed by MH and JD? We got sperience! We knows how to do it right! 

[silent thunder]

tag teamed... static...  not sure about any of that...

 

However, the tea here today is sublime, the Ravens are chanting their thanks for the offerings out back and my son is quietly singing impromptu songs of love to his close friend/cat Rama while they lounge on the sofa.  Gal is thumbing through a book next to them and my friend/cat Maya is resting her head on my forearm as I type this...

 

it's more like this...

 

 

[silent thunder]

seems we are also the cause of our own content... (pun intended)

[Jim D.]

Very nice image to ponder!

[silent thunder]

Aha! you got trekcho'd!! 

had to look that one up as I was unfamiliar. 

How awesome!  Thanks mate.

[silent thunder]

Very nice image to ponder!

That is one of my favorite piano pieces... simple and profound. 

 

I have found much Music to be a profound aid.  It acts like a carrier interrupt signal for both persistent inertia of negative emotional states and overt mental static.  Not quite as potent as silence and following the breath, but it's more social.