Shidifen Posted June 29, 2016 Mair - 1:4A man of Sung who traded in ceremonial caps traveled to the state of Viet. But the people of Viet cut off their hair and tattooed their bodies, so the caps were of no use. Yao brought order to all the people under heaven and brought peace to all within the four seas. He went to distant Mount Kuyeh to visit the Four Masters. Upon returning to his capital on the north bank of the Fen River, he fell into a daze and forgot all about his empire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 29, 2016 And this is the beginning of my thoughts on the concept of "useful/useless" (to me). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miffymog Posted June 29, 2016 This is one of my favourite chapters as the first bit is so accessible and it does nothing but make me smile 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted June 29, 2016 More on scope, now continuing the implications of value that is tied between scopes. Here we have one who has changed his scope based on the establishment of the values we spoke of in 1:3, such that he depends on the selling of caps in the hopes of gaining more than he needs. Alas, when he travels to a place that differs in its values, his contrivance of scope fails him and he presumably will gain less than he needs. Conversely, Yao worked hard to bring order to all the people under heaven, such that there was a great peace and harmony. Thus his scope, which depended upon the needs of his kingdom, was dissolved along with the need for a king, who became just another part of the whole, not in ownership of any other. Here we learn about the underlying principles related to the binding forces between entities, and why what one depends upon is important, especially if one is choosing to depend upon something based on desires. We learn how one might tie bonds to one's self and how one might dissolve those bonds by nurturing what is naturally self-so rather than contrived. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted July 1, 2016 Conversely, Yao worked hard to bring order to all the people under heaven, such that there was a great peace and harmony. I tend to not see a conversely in this... but as I mentioned in the previous section, whether the dunce (as in dunce cap too) or sage, their relation to others cannot be measured (or sold)... the outcome is forgotten. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted July 1, 2016 There are fairly significant mistakes here Mair - 1:4 Yao brought order to all the people under heaven and brought peace to all within the four seas. 尧治天下之民,平海内之政, Yao governed the people of Underheaven, administrated all withn Four Seas He went to distant Mount Kuyeh to visit the Four Masters. Upon returning to his capital on the north bank of the Fen River, he fell into a daze and forgot all about his empire. 往见四子藐姑射之山,汾水之阳,窅然丧其天下焉。 Went to visit the 4 immortals on Miǎogūshè, south of Fen River, and abdicated the Underheaven there. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shidifen Posted July 2, 2016 Mair's notes -16. Sung. In the central part of north China.17. Viet. In the south of China. During Chuang Tzu's time, the people living here were not yet Sinicized.18. Fen River. In Shansi province. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted July 3, 2016 I feel there's some details missing. What on earth did the Four Masters do to Yao to have that effect on him?! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zhongyongdaoist Posted July 3, 2016 I feel there's some details missing. What on earth did the Four Masters do to Yao to have that effect on him?! No details are missing, the Four Masters didn't need to "do" anything to Yao, rather by their very presence they were the "undoing" of Yao. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted July 4, 2016 Ziporyn has a detailed exploration of Guo Xiang's commentary of this section in Penumbra Unbound. Can find the excerpt searching "chuangzi yao four masters" 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted July 4, 2016 Ziporyn has a detailed exploration of Guo Xiang's commentary Guo, the butcher of Zhuang Guo Xiang (Chinese: 郭象; pinyin: Guō Xiàng; Wade–Giles: Kuo Hsiang; died 312 AD) is credited with the first and most important revision of the text known as the Zhuangzi which, along with the Tao Te Ching, forms the textual and philosophical basis of the Taoistschool of thought. He was also a scholar of xuanxue. The Guo Xiang redaction of the text revised a fifty-two chapter original by removing material he thought was superstitious and generally not of philosophical interest to his literati sensibilities, resulting in a thirty-three chapter total. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites