Creating a Modern Atlantis

[thelerner]

Lets play a game (and try to stay on subject).  This thread isn't about legendary Atlantis rather its an exercise to see how we'd create a modern Atlantis.  A utopian town, of say.. 50,000 people. 

 

How would we test and elect our philosopher kings.  How much power would we give them and what would the government look like? 

 

What would the area look like?  The homes, streets, schools.  What kind of economic system would we have it run on?  Educational.  What would we produce?

 

 

[Marblehead]

Well, first we will need a homeland.  I suggest conquering either Crete or Sicily.

[thelerner]

Santorini has nice beaches, hotels for our minions followers.  Invade now, plan later?

 

More seriously, I'm thinking less Atlantis, more not utopian.. that's too close to unsinkable, rather a really great place.  Might even be worth looking at copying places that have a high degree of happiness.

[Marblehead]

Well, maybe we could get Bhutan to let us join them.  Afterall, they have a policy of Gross National Happiness.

[Nungali]

Yes, by keeping the likes of us away from them ! 

 

 

I would suggest my area - but I dont want all those people coming here ! 

 

I would suggest (since this is a fantasy )  that we include some time travel ... we go back to what was , perhaps, the original concept of Atlantis  -  Airyana Vaeja  ... if it was 1/2 as good as they made out .... I would move there !  

 

WE would need a god king  and  to implement the code   (perhaps like Cyrus the Great - he followed the Zoroastrian code of good kingship )

 

Zoroastrian texts describe Airyana Vaeja as being mountainous with fertile meadows and valleys. In addition, the opening words of the Avestan Vendidad's chapter listing the sixteen nations, states that if God had not made other countries beautiful in some manner, all the world would have swarmed into Airyana Vaeja on account of its great beauty and - as mentioned elsewhere in the Avesta (see next paragraph) - because of its wise king and good government, law and order, noble people and serenity. Airyana Vaeja was a paradise on earth - a land of peace and serenity, the best place to live and raise a family. 

The heavenly nature of Airyana Vaeja during the Jamshidi era (see Weather Change below) reached mythic proportions in Yasht 19.33, the Zamyad Yasht. Then, the weather was neither cold nor hot, there was no untruth and envy, people were undying, water and plants never drying. All because King Jamshid ruled wisely and the people lived honestly. However, when the king lost his grace and the people lost their noble ways, Airyana Vaeja became a paradise lost. 

Tibetan Buddhism's book of Kala-Chakra, the Time-Cycle, and Tibetan Buddhism's predecessor religion,Bon, built on and popularized this concept of a lost and hidden paradise on earth, now known to the world as Shangri-La. 

 

 

The Palmer region - the 'Feet of Mithra'  where the western Himalaya range drops down into ancient Bactria (and the once fertile plains) - now desert and the river systems down to the Aral Sea  (now also drying out and dying ) to the SW and to the N the main Silk Route into China, the SE over the Hindu Kush into India  (no wonder they had a good spot ! ) 

 

Hmmm ... somehow, we would have to rid of the pollution and climate problems  (oh, and the constant wars there ) ...    

 

climate change is are even effecting Bhutan , who has little to do with generating the problem , but will suffer greatly from it (if stuff starts melting )  

 

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/location.htm

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/tajikistan/page3.htm

Edited July 3, 2016 by Nungali

[thelerner]

If starting from scratch, I'd have at least one large area where all housing had to be hobbit holes.  They could be big, the hills they're dug into could be artificial, I'd prefer them not to be.  Thus good insulation, less energy needed also more natural views from the top. 

 

Maybe not a day of rest, but a mandatory evening of Party.  Every other week, 12 hours of no work permitted, just a communal party.  Giant potluck in the center of town. Likewise everyone there is in the Reserves, requiring 24 hours of work every month. 

 

The center of town, parks, gazebos, amphitheater.  A maze of fruit bushes, a airy orchard of fruit trees.  Well tended and all for sharing.  Maybe a communal barn and farm too.  Nothing too big.  Maybe some aquaponics too.  Created to compliment each other.   For the community rather then as a profit motive. 

 

People could work in the town or outside.  Hmnn, maybe set it in a Indian reservation where we'd be free of taxes..  if possible. 

[Nungali]

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

I would like to add some of this type of  infrastructure , especially the bridges

 

 

 

[Spotless]

A very high regard for change.

 

Awakening expected, taught and attained at a young age.

 

A high regard for attaining a human form and expanding Presence within and without.

 

A high regard for Presence within and without All.

 

An inclusion of the planets and universe in our daily presence as the living presence "they" have within and without us.

 

An understanding of "fear" as a dis-ase and natural pre-awakening phenomenon that will ease and disappear in Awakening.

 

A science of no-science - continuous flux

[Marblehead]

I would like to add some of this type of  infrastructure , especially the bridges

 

I saw that last night while watching a documentary of India.

 

And I didn't know that the Northeast of India is still as wild as it is.  There is even one headhunter tribe.  (They say they don't hunt heads anymore but we all know how hard it is to stop habits.)

[Nungali]

In the interests of cultural diversification and preservation, I think they should be allowed to take one or two a year. 

[Marblehead]

As long as it's not mine.

[Nungali]

Of course, if we were to create a modern Atlantis  ... and wanted it to be like the 'real' Atlantis      

 

it would have to be like ..... 

 

" in the Timaeus, it was Atlantis that was represented as a tyrannical state which started a war of conquest aimed at the whole Europe and Asia "  

 

Are we including this in our visions ?  

Edited July 4, 2016 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

Okay.  Sorry.  Back to Atlantis.  There was a group that tried to prove that Atlantis was on the Atlantic coast of Spain.

 

They had some good ideas but the proof was very poor.

[Marblehead]

Are we including this in our visions ?  

I'm not.  I don't like wars.

[Nungali]

So far we have the 'wonderful and enlightened'  Atlantis - which was actually a tyrannical state 

 

Utopia  -  OU ( not )  topus  (place )    - no place ,  nowhere / not possible 

 

... any more ? 

[Nungali]

Okay.  Sorry.  Back to Atlantis.  There was a group that tried to prove that Atlantis was on the Atlantic coast of Spain.

 

They had some good ideas but the proof was very poor.

 

 

 On the coast or off the coast ... it was supposed to be an island .

 

I suppose its the translation of 'beyond the Pillars of Hercules .... many see that as the Straights of Gibraltar  , but others claim it could have been within the Mediterranean. 

 

Most (that do this stuff) see it a bit south , off the coast of  North Africa / Morocco .  

[Marblehead]

Yeah, proving that the area was an island was one of their problems.  They couldn't quite get the island.

 

And yes, "beyond the Pillars of Hercules" has had many people looking in the Atlantic.  Even some around Bermuda.

[Marblehead]

But we are here creating a new one.  A nice sized island with a safe harbor would be great.  I will stick with either Sicily or Crete.

 

Crete would be better because in Sicily we would have to deal with the mob and pay protection.

[Nungali]

I feel that isnt a good spot .  lets face facts, we are going to have to defend it .  I suggest somewhere in open water and we build the island. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

I feel that isnt a good spot .  lets face facts, we are going to have to defend it .  I suggest somewhere in open water and we build the island. 

 

 

The Chinese have been doing a lot of that lately.  But their goal is not national production but rather expanding their claimable territory.  I doubt what they are building will very produce anything but rather consume resources.

 

Well, Corsica and Sardinia would be an option. 

[thelerner]

Build an island and recycle at the same time:

 

 

love it.

nor is it alone.  Atlantis indeed-

Edited July 5, 2016 by thelerner

[zerostao]

i am not saying that marinaleda spain is a new atlantis, but they have been creative in tough economic times

http://anonhq.com/marinaleda-spanish-town-equal-wage-full-employment-housing-food-residents/

[zerostao]

In 1985 Robert Bellah asked these questions: How ought we to live? How do we think about how to live? Who are we, as Americans? What is our character?

 

If we do have the power to make the world anew, how should we go?

We have enough in common to be able to discuss aspirations and fears.

As much as I would love to live in a free anarchist society well endowed with mutual respect and understanding,

in New Atlantis, most likely will have a political community, so, 

originally America went with Plato's theory of the relationship between the moral character of the people and the nature of its political community. Found in the eighth book of Republic. 

Is this way still viable?

If so, is it the best way to go?

Edited July 19, 2016 by zerostao

[Marblehead]

A Republic would be cool.  But then, even the Greeks screwed that up.