Zazen(zen meditation)

[AcEs]

I have started Zazen(zen meditation) but i have a few problems.

 

1.I can't stop controlling my breath. Is that a problem?

 

2.The meditation i do says that you breathe into your dan tien. Other meditations say to just breathe naturally. Which one is the best? 

 

3.I sit in the Burmese posture and it's getting better and can do 20 mins but then my legs fall asleep. Is there any danger of these type of sitting positions? Its though on my knees, Does it have long term risks?

 

Is there any benefits sitting in the Burmese, half lotus or lotus positions? Has anybody have experience of these positions?

 

any other advice?

 

Thank you in advance

[Miffymog]

1 - I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say you 'can't stop controlling your breath'. Does this mean you feel extra aware of it and are unable to let it flow naturally without thought?

 

2 - If you've got formal instruction then its probably best you do what is suggested to you. If you're working this out on your self then this is a nice one when where you just try each one out for a number of sits and then do which one you prefer. I've tried out both and my preference is just breath naturally, its up to you on this one.

 

3 - Having just Googled Burmese posture, this was actually quite similar to the posture I used. Initially I tried out half lotus but it strained my knees, I also kept hearing stories of others who had damaged their knees by going half or full lotus. I've now learnt that you should only really do that if you've got other parts of your practice which concentrates on flexibility. ie practising getting into half or full lotus by merely doing half or full lotus does not stretch enough muscles and can risk injury. If, however, you've already got a good yoga practice going and you can do this kind of thing with no strain anyway, you should be fine.

 

4 - Just for info, what is the focus of you meditation? Is it putting your awareness on the LDT, following your breath, or do you 'just sit'?

Edited July 3, 2016 by Miffymog

[joeblast]

I have started Zazen(zen meditation) but i have a few problems.

 

1.I can't stop controlling my breath. Is that a problem?

Only if you're not making progress and getting to   softer breath, invisible breath, cessation of cranial nerve activities - in other words, keep making progress.

 

2.The meditation i do says that you breathe into your dan tien. Other meditations say to just breathe naturally. Which one is the best? 

Yi directs qi.  Are you going to let that one flap in the breeze, or focus it?

 

3.I sit in the Burmese posture and it's getting better and can do 20 mins but then my legs fall asleep. Is there any danger of these type of sitting positions? Its though on my knees, Does it have long term risks?

Keep up with your stretching, open the hips more.  Loo for full lotus stretches.

 

Is there any benefits sitting in the Burmese, half lotus or lotus positions? Has anybody have experience of these positions?

The lotus posture turns the femur and puts a slight tension on the psoas muscle - it has a focusing effect, the psoas attaches to the spine very closely to where the bottom of the diaphragm attaches - so in a sense, the psoas is the way by which one breathes into the dantien, making the breath appear to "go deeper" i.e. further down than it really does.  Anchoring the movement of the diaphragm and integrating it well with the psoas is something that can help streamline the energetic efficiency of the breath.  Also, lotus is the most stable seated position there is,  and helps develop the ability to stay stable in deep meditation.

 

any other advice?Dont use anywhere air touches to facilitate the movement of air, this is the way to shut off the signal to the olfactory nerve and transform the resonances of the cranial nerves.

 

Thank you in advance

[AcEs]

Hi Miffymog

 

I just dont know but when i start to focus on it and then i notice i am control it. Like i am extra aware of it like you said. The breath is longer when i control it and  when i try not to control it, i just cant stop. It is very distracting.

 

The meditation, i just read online, i read 2 different meditation one says to breathe and focus on the Dan Tien and other says to focus on your normal breathing. Tbh the breathing in the Dan Tien will be easier as i have to control my breath to breathe in the Dan tien. The problem is can i control it and which one will benefit me?

 

My main focus is to concentrate allot better, be more focused,be very alert and be more in the present moment. I am a big day dreamer so would benefit to be more present.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Miffymog]

I'm looking back in my mind to when I started out meditation and I had similar kind of issues to you. I felt that it was beneficial to do but I think I remember feeling mildly uncomfortable doing it. I had a sense of worthlessness at the time and when I first started meditating I kept feeling like I did not deserve the breath that I was concentrating on.

 

The good news is that it did pass and, after practice, it become something I could enjoy. This will happen with your over control of the breath. So one answer is just to set up a regular practice, like the one you've got, and things will settle down in time.

 

Focusing on the LDT is a very good meditation and if you feel drawn to it then, while you are setting up your practice, then definitely do this one.

 

If you meditate at a regular time, your body and mind become conditioned into entering into that state at that time of day. It is really this that means you make progress, rather than by intentionally inducing a meditative state by the power of the mind. It is kind of a thoughtless, thoughtless state of mind.

 

As the most important way you'll gain a more relaxed breath is by a regular practice, maybe shortening your sit times would help. Don't be afraid to do this if it means you can then do it more regularly.

 

There are then the other options of looking for a class in any of the Eastern Practices which you can attend. Directly or indirectly, they all improve mindfulness and help settle the mind down. So this would also be very beneficial.

[AcEs]

I'm looking back in my mind to when I started out meditation and I had similar kind of issues to you. I felt that it was beneficial to do but I think I remember feeling mildly uncomfortable doing it. I had a sense of worthlessness at the time and when I first started meditating I kept feeling like I did not deserve the breath that I was concentrating on.

 

The good news is that it did pass and, after practice, it become something I could enjoy. This will happen with your over control of the breath. So one answer is just to set up a regular practice, like the one you've got, and things will settle down in time.

 

Focusing on the LDT is a very good meditation and if you feel drawn to it then, while you are setting up your practice, then definitely do this one.

 

If you meditate at a regular time, your body and mind become conditioned into entering into that state at that time of day. It is really this that means you make progress, rather than by intentionally inducing a meditative state by the power of the mind. It is kind of a thoughtless, thoughtless state of mind.

 

As the most important way you'll gain a more relaxed breath is by a regular practice, maybe shortening your sit times would help. Don't be afraid to do this if it means you can then do it more regularly.

 

There are then the other options of looking for a class in any of the Eastern Practices which you can attend. Directly or indirectly, they all improve mindfulness and help settle the mind down. So this would also be very beneficial.

 

I have been meditating for a while and i may not do it at the same time each day but i try to and i do it regularly, like almost everyday. I will try to do it at the same time each day, thanks for the tip.

 

I take it controlling the breath is not good? Last 2 questions so it's ok to just concentrate on the LDT and not breathe in it? 

 

Thank you very much

[Miffymog]

I have been meditating for a while and i may not do it at the same time each day but i try to and i do it regularly, like almost everyday. I will try to do it at the same time each day, thanks for the tip.

 

I take it controlling the breath is not good? Last 2 questions so it's ok to just concentrate on the LDT and not breathe in it? 

 

Thank you very much

 

 

Hmmm, I'm not really able to help you much more I'm afraid. There are some practices where you intentionally, very carefully, slow the breath down. I've never done this so I can't really advise on this kind of thing. So I'm not sure what more to say in regards to controlling the breath.

 

As for focusing on the LDT or breathing into it, again, I can't really advise here either. Some say 'just put your attention in it' others say put your 'Yi mind in it'. This kind of means applying as little awareness as possible. Or, this can be explained as effortless awareness. Sometimes when you put your awareness on something, it can actually create a mild amount of tension, and this is something that you don't really want when focusing on the LDT. That is why, in fact, why I don't focus on the LDT as I don't feel I could do it properly with out proper instruction. So, whether you just put you awareness in it or breath in it is, again, beyond my knowledge and experience, sorry.

[thelerner]

I usually start out watching my breath, keeping it slow and steady, often counting breaths, sometimes 1-10 repeat, sometimes 1-100.  At some point, I let it go and breath naturally.  I think by 'stretching' out the breath at the beginning, my natural breath becomes more relaxed and longer.  

 

Likewise in the beginning I watch and correct repeatedly my posture, checking that its relaxed yet taut, as if a rubber band along my spine was stretched up and slightly down.  As well as one running across my shoulders, gently pulling them apart, opening my chest.  I slightly roll my pelvis forward, chin slightly down.  Check my body to see if I can relax anything more, even the eyes and tonque.

 

For years I'd concentrate on my dan tien.  Lately I'm keeping focus under my nose, which helps me keep the breath subtle (like ninja who can't be heard).  I'll change up my focus every now and then.

 

Every now and then its good to have someone with experience correct your position.  I'm sure if my old sensei saw it, he'd groan and start correcting. 

[roger]

I have started Zazen(zen meditation) but i have a few problems.

 

1.I can't stop controlling my breath. Is that a problem?

 

2.The meditation i do says that you breathe into your dan tien. Other meditations say to just breathe naturally. Which one is the best? 

 

3.I sit in the Burmese posture and it's getting better and can do 20 mins but then my legs fall asleep. Is there any danger of these type of sitting positions? Its though on my knees, Does it have long term risks?

 

Is there any benefits sitting in the Burmese, half lotus or lotus positions? Has anybody have experience of these positions?

 

any other advice?

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

I have some thoughts about controlling the breath.

 

Don't worry about it. It doesn't matter. You said, "Is that a problem?" My opinion is, no.

 

TRYING not to control the breath is just another form of controlling it.

 

Just do whatever you're comfortable with. Do whatever is natural.

[joeblast]

If one does not harmonize and streamline the breath to the point of its "disappearance" e.g. bringing the flow of air beneath the threshold of neural detection, then one is necessarily limiting the potential and benefit of meditation.

 

There are times not to overtly control the breath - but those times are for after the muscle memory has been habituated.  Its like riding a bike, how far are you going to go if you only coast and do not pedal?   Anapanasati is the first physical thing to tackle for a very good reason.  There is a LOT of energy consumed by these neural processes that is freed up once a practitioner is regularly bringing his breath beneath this threshold of detection.

 

I always advise using a rote method to ingrain the proper physical motions.  Ohm's law.

[AcEs]

Thanks all, great advice.