Mo Pai Levels

[Kung]

Hi All. 

 

Where can I find the needed skills to be tested or shown on each degree of "72 Levels of Mo Pai"?

 

Any resources will be welcomed!

 

Thank you

[RiverSnake]

Just a note....anything to do with Mo Pai.... I would be wary and keep your bull-shit meter on full bast. Power attracts assholes and the path itself is already laden with whatever traps we allow. As to the answer of your question, i don't know, perhaps someone more knowledgable with come through. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by OldChi

[Chang]

Mo Pai is a closed school and is not taught to westerners. If you wish you may use the search facility on the site and peruse all that we have regarding this system. I am afraid that it does not make for pleasant reading.

[Papayapple]

Mo Pai is a closed school and is not taught to westerners. If you wish you may use the search facility on the site and peruse all that we have regarding this system. I am afraid that it does not make for pleasant reading.

What is the reason for this? Are these people mad at the west because of something? I never understood that...

[dawei]

What is the reason for this? Are these people mad at the west because of something? I never understood that...

 

Or very smart...

[Papayapple]

Smart? What's smart about it? You can't possibly mean military advantages or something? Isn't the "closeness" of some of the schools the reason that the arts are in danger of dying?

[Leif]

Smart? What's smart about it? You can't possibly mean military advantages or something? Isn't the "closeness" of some of the schools the reason that the arts are in danger of dying?

 

Many arts went through centuries with 1-2 lineage holders at a time just fine. The problem is to find those 1-2 serious practitioners, not thousands of consumers.

[Chang]

John Chang is the present patriarch of the Mo Pai system. He has chosen not to accept western students into his school; it is as simple as that.

 

He has the right to teach or not to teach whomsoever he chooses, the whys and wherefores being matters for conjecture.

 

For those interested in this subject there is a considerable volume of threads regarding Mo Pai on this forum, most of which do not end well but give a goodly amount of information for interested parties.

[Kung]

Thank you for your comments. But I can not see any resources or referrals to a site or two.

 

Any ideas?

[Chang]

You may start with this thread

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40024-mo-pai-is-it-legit/?hl=%2Bjohn+%2Bchang#entry661782

 

It is pretty much standard for discussions on John Chang and Mo Pai within this forum. You will also find links to sites offering teachings purporting to be Mo Pai but generally classed as Western Mo Pai or "More Pie" as it is also known.

 

My own view concerning John Chang and Mo Pai is well known on the forum. John Chang and Mo Pai may well be a valid and powerful system of neigong but as John C will not teach westerners it is very much a dead end endeavour to attempt to follow this road. There are those who will say that this is not so and that Mo Pai is alive and well in the west but you will have to decide for yourself if this is the case.

 

My advice would be to read through the above thread in its entirety to give you a good grounding in the paths that may be available to you.

[bluefire]

Or very smart...

Could you elaborate on that statement?

[Daeluin]

I heard John Chang had some sort of dream about his teacher warning him to be more hidden after he shared some demonstrations in front of a news crew.

 

In general it seems smart to listen to your teacher. Even more so if you are being taught things easily misunderstood by modern culture.

 

Pst, hey everyone!

There's a chest of gold in bluefire's backyard!!!!

[dawei]

Could you elaborate on that statement?

 

People entrusted and skilled with a system, however simple or complex like 72 stages which could take numerous lifetimes to achieve, know that it is simply dangerous to let that teaching out without strict controls and oversight.  For example, consider the outcome of those westerners who were taught.

 

Consider what the Chinese did with Tai Ji when the Manchu reigned china... they only taught the outer and not the inner aspect.  While this might of been to conceal the 'secrets' of the teaching, it likely also protected folks [the devil dog foreigners] from hurting themselves.

[thelerner]

There are a couple of practitioners, I think, at neigongforum.com.   You might find more answers there.

[TheDustAutumn]

To my knowledge there are no qualified western instructors, the system is only taught in Indonesia and only to Chinese students. There is the more pie guy team that teaches the first level with their own spin on it and with Kosta's books as their Holy Gospel.

Of course, the first 2 levels are quite easy to find on the internet (I must note that some of John Chang's students have come forward to warn they are not accurate, although I personally doubt it). In my opinion it is highly debatable if those two levels can be completed at all without a master to "jump-start" you practice in the very beginning. The fact that there is no qualified teacher also means that you have no sure way to know when you finish level one so you can move on to the next level and I remember reading from one of Kosta's students that in Mopai you have to move to the next level as soon as possible or the qi will harden on its own making further progress impossible. It also means that if something goes wrong and you hurt yourself (as I understand, level 2 is quite dangerous and almost all of the people who practiced it, even under Chang's supervision, developed health problems like prostate problems, ruptured veins or even worse, stroke) you have no one to help you or heal you, you are completely on your own. The same goes if you accidentally hurt some one else.

That being said, beyond level 2 there is no real knowledge of the rest of the levels. So unless you're Chinese and you get officially accepted into the school, your journey with Mopai will have to end at level 2 (that is if you don't get sick from the practice before that).

[thelerner]

To my knowledge there are no qualified western instructors, the system is only taught in Indonesia and only to Chinese students. There is the more pie guy team that teaches the first level with their own spin on it and with Kosta's books as their Holy Gospel.

 

Of course, the first 2 levels are quite easy to find on the internet (I must note that some of John Chang's students have come forward to warn they are not accurate, although I personally doubt it). In my opinion it is highly debatable if those two levels can be completed at all without a master to "jump-start" you practice in the very beginning. The fact that there is no qualified teacher also means that you have no sure way to know when you finish level one so you can move on to the next level and I remember reading from one of Kosta's students that in Mopai you have to move to the next level as soon as possible or the qi will harden on its own making further progress impossible. It also means that if something goes wrong and you hurt yourself (as I understand, level 2 is quite dangerous and almost all of the people who practiced it, even under Chang's supervision, developed health problems like prostate problems, ruptured veins or even worse, stroke) you have no one to help you or heal you, you are completely on your own. The same goes if you accidentally hurt some one else.

 

That being said, beyond level 2 there is no real knowledge of the rest of the levels. So unless you're Chinese and you get officially accepted into the school, your journey with Mopai will have to end at level 2 (that is if you don't get sick from the practice before that).

I agree, but that is the start of over a dozen 30 page plus threads where the arguments go round and round, til they finally wind up in the Hundun Pit section.

Edited July 14, 2016 by thelerner

[Jetsun]

In before "I'd rather do the first 2 levels of a real system than waste my life on make believe placebo Gong"

[dawei]

I agree, but that is the start of over a dozen 30 page plus threads where the arguments go round and round, til they finally wind up in the Hundun Pit section.

 

That or as has been requested over the years to ban the topic... which just doesn't feel right...  rather ban the trolls

[doc benway]

That or as has been requested over the years to ban the topic... which just doesn't feel right...  rather ban the trolls

If we ban the topic, we may get a thank you note from John Chang...

[TheDustAutumn]

I had a conversation with a different friend who "encouraged me" to add this post script note: his own teacher was one of John Chang's teachers, and had only one thing to tell me (at the time I was still interested in Mo Pai): "John Chang is extremely disliked by his own teacher [at least that one] and for many good reasons besides the big main fact that a lot of what he does is WRONG."

 

I cannot verify this because this was a phone conversation with a friend and whether it is true or not does not benefit (let alone interest) me, but I wouldn't be surprised based on some of the things I've seen and heard in my travels from other schools and masters.

John Chang had only one teacher, his name was Liao(not sure if i remember correctly his name)and he had only two students one of them being John Chang. I think your friend might be lying

[TheDustAutumn]

I heard John Chang had one teacher, and my friend said his teacher was John's, and another friend in the same conversation asked me to verify who since he said John had 3 in his life. Both friends lived in Indonesia and the Philippines longer than me and know more about Mo Pai or criticisms against it.

 

Again: I don't care, I'm just saying what I was told. No more from me--I'm done with anything that I could EVER contribute to any topic related to Mo Pai

As I understand Liao died more than some time ago, when Chang was still very young. As I said i think your friend might be confused

[Lao Sun Tao]

In my humble opinion, more as an experienced reader and learner than anything else, whenever something has levels, being that a system, a practice, or whatever, it loses its spirituality, which, for me, is one of the worst things when it comes to spiritual learnings--no, scratch that. It's the worst thing, for a spiritual learning becomes just learning, and those levels turn it into some kind of pyramid. And then showing off commences.

 

And then all those threads start to emerge, slowly but steadily, and then we have brooding fanatics and all kinds of nonsense, which, quite possibly, can turn into dogma. Don't get me wrong; sometimes showing off is necessary to raise an eyebrow and attract attention, but other than that, it's puerile and pointless.

I'm glad I've found this thread and can finally have some peace regarding the pursuit of mo pai. I don't have any reason to believe Earl Grey, but I do. And I trust my intuition, and my common sense as well. I will just read one or two books on it, just for encyclopedic purposes, and move on. I suggest--unless something huge comes up--to whoever feels the need to keep chasing a system just because it is forbidden (a nice marketing word) to do the same.

Peace.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Lao Sun Tao

[Daeluin]

As I understand Liao died more than some time ago, when Chang was still very young. As I said i think your friend might be confused

 

Funny thing about "levels" in spiritual advancement. The higher you go, the more you interact with what is beyond life and death. If your teacher went beyond the limits of life and death, there is a pretty good chance they will continue to teach you if you are able to listen, even if their physical body is gone. The teacher-student connection carries with it transmissions that are similar to familial bonds. This is something very sacred.

 

And please note I'm not saying how this principle is related to this topic. Interpretation is up to us. Just no point hiding in a box when the topic is about advancements beyond the box. In the end, what do we really know, and why do we care so much?

[thelerner]

That or as has been requested over the years to ban the topic... which just doesn't feel right...  rather ban the trolls

In Mo Pai but also in Buddhism we get things that seem trollish, yet one persons trolling is another persons passion. 

 

Hopefully all of us have gone through the ecstatic phase of finding the greatest thing on earth and if everyone practice it there'd be less gingivitis as well as peace and harmony on earth.  For me, for a while it was Aikido, and I'm sure it was very trying time for those close to me.  

 

So for the mods the question is, how can they subtlety guide the passionate to write without the chauvinism of the troll.  We probably have some good posts on it.  We need to find the best ones and throw them into discussions before they get out of hand.  maybe.. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by thelerner

[Daeluin]

how can the subtlety guide the passionate to write with the chauvinism of the troll. 

 

I pondered on this for a while, and came to this answer. Hexagram 15 line 5 also has some interesting ideas. Innocence, humility, and integrity are powerful forces, but I think they work best when they don't have an external agenda, or when they are being pressed upon by external forces. It is hard to press upon something that doesn't want to get caught out when the circumstances offer a lot of freedom. Once a critical mass is reached however, trolls would just go to a different forum. I doubt there is much reward to be found in trolling triggering reactivity in people who by nature can't be trolled don't react or stray from the heart. The more they might try, the more their prey rubs off on them until they are forced to flee or open their own heart.