Declaring Realisation Prematurely

[Bindi]

 Some cautionary words by the Indian sage Sri Aurobindo to his disciples, referring to what he called “the Intermediate Zone, a dangerous and misleading transitional spiritual and pseudo-spiritual region between the ordinary consciousness of the outer being and True Realisation”.
 

...These things, when they pour down or come in, present themselves with a great force, a vivid sense of inspiration or illumination, much sensation of light and joy, an impression of widening and power. The sadhak feels himself freed from the normal limits, projected into a wonderful new world of experience, filled and enlarged and exalted;what comes associates itself, besides, with his aspirations, ambitions, notions of spiritual fulfillment and yogic siddhi; it is represented even as itself that realisation and fulfillment. Very easily he is carried away by the splendour and the rush, and thinks that he has realised more than he has truly done, something final or at least something sovereignly true. At this stage the necessary knowledge and experience are usually lacking which would tell him that this is only a very uncertain and mixed beginning; he may not realise at once that he is still in the cosmic Ignorance, not in the cosmic Truth, much less in the Transcendental Truth, and that whatever formative or dynamic idea-truths may have come down into him are partial only and yet further diminished by their presentation to him by a still mixed consciousness. He may fail to realise also that if he rushes to apply what he is realising or receiving as if it were something definitive, he may either fall into confusion and error or else get shut up in some partial formation in which there may be an element of spiritual Truth but it is likely to be outweighted by more dubious mental and vital accretions that deform it altogether.

 

http://www.spiritualteachers.org/neo_advaita_article.htm

Edited July 13, 2016 by Bindi

[Kubba]

How many teachers are there who teach prematureley?

How many gives advices here out of this place?

[Taoist Texts]

How many teachers are there who teach prematureley?

How many gives advices here out of this place?

[C T]

Sometimes the student listen prematurely... if that's the case, surely its not the teaching or the teacher who's to blame. 

 

The authentic teacher is always ready, and respond to teaching only at the request of students and followers. Otherwise i think most would prefer not to teach because interacting with students where most usually carry with them a certain amount of negativity and neuroticism will shorten their lifespan. Problem is a lot of 'followers' don't follow as devotees, but clingers. They put hooks into the teacher(s) and literally chain themselves to the teacher(s), showing up wherever the teachers go, and mistake that for devotion. So its not hard to imagine the load teachers carry with them - its like being weighed down with sacks of people's neuroses. The worst thing is then getting blamed for their efforts. 

 

Yeah, and all these clingers tend to declare they're sort of realised. They tend to act realised too. 

[Bindi]

Those who have great realization of delusion are buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

--Dogen

[Jeff]

Some cautionary words by the Indian sage Sri Aurobindo to his disciples, referring to what he called “the Intermediate Zone, a dangerous and misleading transitional spiritual and pseudo-spiritual region between the ordinary consciousness of the outer being and True Realisation”.

 

I think there is similar danger when one says that there is some cosmic or transcendental truth to be realized in the first place...

[Bindi]

I think there is similar danger when one says that there is some cosmic or transcendental truth to be realized in the first place...

 

Well I do admit I am pursuing a defined goal, and I think that goal can be classed as a transcendental truth. In line with Sri Aurobindo's quote, I just recognise that I haven't arrived at my goal yet.

 

Do you not see any transcendental truth or Self or Buddha Self to be realised?

[Jeff]

Well I do admit I am pursuing a defined goal, and I think that goal can be classed as a transcendental truth. In line with Sri Aurobindo's quote, I just recognise that I haven't arrived at my goal yet.

 

Do you not see any transcendental truth or Self or Buddha Self to be realised?

 

 

Then I wish you the best in the pursuit of your transcendental truth. For me there is nothing to pursue, no goal to accomplish, just crap (issues and fears) to clear away, but I am a pretty lazy and boring guy...

[liminal_luke]

Seems to me that declaring realization is always a dodgy affair.  When mine comes, I don`t plan on holding a press conference.  I might mention my enlightenment to a few select students and trusted loved ones; everyone else is on a need to know basis, and mostly they don`t.  

[Apech]

Seems to me that declaring realization is always a dodgy affair.  When mine comes, I don`t plan on holding a press conference.  I might mention my enlightenment to a few select students and trusted loved ones; everyone else is on a need to know basis, and mostly they don`t.  

 

 

Wot!  I'm going to make a really big fuss.  You won't hear the end of it

[Brian]

Wot! I'm going to make a really big fuss. You won't hear the end of it

Including a press release on papyrus, perhaps?

[liminal_luke]

Wot!  I'm going to make a really big fuss.  You won't hear the end of it

 

Let`s have a big party with catnip and tequila.  Maybe we can convince Taomeow to bring her borsht?  I can`t wait.  LL

[Apech]

Let`s have a big party with catnip and tequila.  Maybe we can convince Taomeow to bring her borsht?  I can`t wait.  LL

 

 

Sorry but for my enlightenment you might have several lifetimes of waiting

[Apech]

Including a press release on papyrus, perhaps?

 

 

i was thinking more of BuzzFeed and Twitter

[Brian]

Sorry but for my enlightenment you might have several lifetimes of waiting

'Twill be all the better for the anticipation.

[liminal_luke]

Sorry but for my enlightenment you might have several lifetimes of waiting

 

Enlightenment is over-rated, and I want to party now.  How about you publish a selection of your TaoBums humor pieces, and we`ll have a book release party instead?  I nominate TheLerner as bartender.  Let`s do this.

[Bindi]

Then I wish you the best in the pursuit of your transcendental truth. For me there is nothing to pursue, no goal to accomplish, just crap (issues and fears) to clear away, but I am a pretty lazy and boring guy...

 

 

So would you call Buddha deluded, determined as he was to attain enlightenment?

Edited December 13, 2016 by Bindi

[Everything]

There is a phone in my hand, it makes white light. I have come to realize this is white as it is not black, nor grey, but simply white. As I perceive it to be white. I understand others may perceive light differently. Yet, I have come to realize that it is white in my experience of light. And as the white light reflects of my thumbs, as I am typing this, I have also come to realize that my thumbs are enlightened.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Everything

[3bob]

interesting thing so to speak is that enlightenment will never come at some future time or after 'x' number of practices - being that some future time is only apparent yet dharma for alll of us beings in time needs to be practiced...

 

anyway enlightenment (which includes the factor of freedom) is only now and is not over-rated unless one is fully satisfied with limited or relative freedom chained with loss and doubts  

[Jeff]

So would you call Buddha deluded, determined as he was to attain enlightenment?

Not at all...

 

From the Dhammapada - The Way

 

The way is eightfold.

There are four truths.

All virtue lies in detachment.

The master has an open eye.

This is the only way,

The only way to the opening of the eye.

Follow it. Outwit desire.

Follow it to the end of sorrow.

When I pulled out sorrow's shaft I showed you the way.

It is you who must make the effort.

The masters only point the way.

But if you meditate

And follow the dharma

You will free yourself from desire.

"Everything arises and passes away."

When you see this, you are above sorrow.

This is the shining way.

"Existence is sorrow."

Understand, and go beyond sorrow.

This is the way of brightness.

"Existence is illusion."

Understand, and go beyond.

This is the way of clarity.

You are strong, you are young.

It is time to arise.

So arise!

[Bindi]

Sorry Jeff, I don't understand what you are trying to demonstrate with this post, could you explain what you mean?

[Everything]

Sorry Jeff, I don't understand what you are trying to demonstrate with this post, could you explain what you mean?

My guess: to let go of the desire to be without desire?

[Jeff]

Sorry Jeff, I don't understand what you are trying to demonstrate with this post, could you explain what you mean?

You asked me I thought Buddha was deluded regarding his path, I said not at all. Then I posted his words on what he recommend on what people should actually do regarding pursuing the path of enlightenment.

 

Paraphrasing the above text, he said that one should...

 

1. Meditate

2. Follow the Dharma

3. Let go of desire

 

And, that it is you who must make the effort to do so (no master can do it for you). When you do, you realize that existence is really just an illusion and will be free of sorrow. He calls this the shining way of brightness and clarity.

 

[C T]

You asked me I thought Buddha was deluded regarding his path, I said not at all. Then I posted his words on what he recommend on what people should actually do regarding pursuing the path of enlightenment.

 

Paraphrasing the above text, he said that one should...

 

1. Meditate

2. Follow the Dharma

3. Let go of desire

 

And, that it is you who must make the effort to do so (no master can do it for you). When you do, you realize that existence is really just an illusion and will be free of sorrow. He calls this the shining way of brightness and clarity.

 

Im wondering whether 'Should' is an appropriate term to use when it comes to abiding by Buddhist principles. Also wondering if existence is an illusion as per same. 

[Jeff]

Im wondering whether 'Should' is an appropriate term to use when it comes to abiding by Buddhist principles. Also wondering if existence is an illusion as per same.

 

Agreed. Just trying it to the concept of Buddha describing "the way".