Desire

[Chi Boy]

In one aspect this idea of being celibate and doing meditation daily seems enticing, but living in modern society, I doubt anyone is going to be successful in achieving enlightenment. It seems like becoming a monk is the noble path for fulfilling enlightenment. It also seems that many religions tie celibacy very closely to enlightenment. 

 

But does becoming a monk and pursuing Buddhism full time lead to enlightenment in actuality? Or does it just increase your chances? I know it would make celibacy easier, but is there really a purpose to all that? They say desire is the root of suffering. Is there more suffering in this life that is outweighs the positives? This leads to deeper questions like what is the purpose of life? Is it just to procreate? Can one find peaceful/enlightened states while procreating? Is this 10 day silent retreat (Vipassana) just a way of forgetting these animalistic urges short-term? Or does is lead to a powerful new technique for developing mental stillness while overcoming the rigors of everyday society?

 

I recently picked up the Bhagavad Gita due to suggestions by Indian spiritual readings and I found it saying that we are nothing and everything at the same time. It doesn't seem like procreating or even having intercourse embodies this philosophy. The texts goes so far as to say we shouldn't take part in worldly pleasures. Yet, I have also read that the Hindu gods rejoice in sexual intercourse and even embrace it for marriage and with multiple partners. This leads to a word that has been on my mind many a day lately and that's the subject of lust. Lust to me is what I find in a partner. And isn't love the way we are suppose to feel for all other humans? I have a partner, but my animalistic instincts direct me away from having just one partner. And that brings me to my point of if having a partner is even good in the first place. I feel in every day society and partner life/attachment, at least moving out to a semi secluded area down the road would be the most logical. That way I would not have to deal with the ongoing issue of lusting for the opposite sex. 

 

 Thoughts? 

 

Warmly,

 

Chi Boy

[mindtooloud]

Thoughts?

 

Warmly,

 

Chi Boy

 

I have very similar views. About being a monk, i think it increases the chances of getting to enlightenment. But in my opinion you don't have to become a monk, instead you could observe the monks or be part of them for a certain while and take from their culture what suits you best. I want to lead a life just like a monks but i don't necessarily want to be a monk. I just like the way they cut them selves off from worldly things.

 

And i totally agree with you on moving to a seni secluded place. It would be away from most worldly distractions. I feel like modern society is designed in such a way that leads us away from enlightenment.

 

-Me

[C T]

Question yourself: where does lust find its home? 

 

If you are unable to get the answer, even moving to the tip of the North Pole will not be much good to the person who wants to overcome/transform/transcend that negative state. 

 

If you think that by removing your physical self to somewhere remote & quiet is the way to cut thru lustful situations you have some work to do my friend. 

[Marblehead]

Yeah, I'm considering becoming a monk but I'm going to wait until after I have gone totally bald naturally so I won't ever have to get my head shaved.

 

I think it is easier to reduce our desires once we get old.  Maybe you should wait?

[mindtooloud]

If you think that by removing your physical self to somewhere remote & quiet is the way to cut thru lustful situations you have some work to do my friend.

It may not be the way to cut through lustful situations, but i think it's a big step in the sense that one won't be surounded by lust truggering tirggers.

[noonespecial]

It may not be the way to cut through lustful situations, but i think it's a big step in the sense that one won't be surounded by lust truggering tirggers.

 

And then as soon as the hermit visits the city for groceries he finds himself drunk at the brothel. No gain was made at the monastery. 

[C T]

It may not be the way to cut through lustful situations, but i think it's a big step in the sense that one won't be surounded by lust truggering tirggers.

If i were to be in this situation, i would choose to be completely surrounded by these triggers, as many as possible. 

[mindtooloud]

If i were to be in this situation, i would choose to be completely surrounded by these triggers, as many as possible.

Hmmmm i see. You have a .

 

Added

Thank you for your guidance

Edited July 19, 2016 by mindtooloud

[3bob]

MH, Are you going to add a bunch of macho tattoos to go with the bald?   (hehehe)

[3bob]

all desires are really veils upon the one truest desire of Self-realization/freedom

[Boy]

I think you already have more thoughts than you can handle, chi boy. Time will tell if you're sincere about this enlightenment business, but for the time being I would recommend you take control of your "animalistic instincts" for the sake of your partner if not yourself. Celibacy, imho, is not in the cards for you.

[Marblehead]

MH, Are you going to add a bunch of macho tattoos to go with the bald?   (hehehe)

 

Hehehe.  I might.  I have no tattoos now.  Tattoos cause you to become a different person.

[Marblehead]

all desires are really veils upon the one truest desire of Self-realization/freedom

 

There is a lot of truth in that.  Of course, desires are linked to ego as well.

[wuchiclan]

desire is an interesting phenomenon, specifically how it drives actions based in things like pleasure, appetite, careers, and other things we "need"

I like to focus on diet, and i wonder how much focus the OP places on food in comparison to the focus placed on things like textual studies, location, or perceived monk like life styles.

is the impulse to eat crappy food based in desire? Does this mean eating healthy is fighting against desire?

 

[roger]

In one aspect this idea of being celibate and doing meditation daily seems enticing, but living in modern society, I doubt anyone is going to be successful in achieving enlightenment. It seems like becoming a monk is the noble path for fulfilling enlightenment. It also seems that many religions tie celibacy very closely to enlightenment. 

 

But does becoming a monk and pursuing Buddhism full time lead to enlightenment in actuality? Or does it just increase your chances? I know it would make celibacy easier, but is there really a purpose to all that? They say desire is the root of suffering. Is there more suffering in this life that is outweighs the positives? This leads to deeper questions like what is the purpose of life? Is it just to procreate? Can one find peaceful/enlightened states while procreating? Is this 10 day silent retreat (Vipassana) just a way of forgetting these animalistic urges short-term? Or does is lead to a powerful new technique for developing mental stillness while overcoming the rigors of everyday society?

 

I recently picked up the Bhagavad Gita due to suggestions by Indian spiritual readings and I found it saying that we are nothing and everything at the same time. It doesn't seem like procreating or even having intercourse embodies this philosophy. The texts goes so far as to say we shouldn't take part in worldly pleasures. Yet, I have also read that the Hindu gods rejoice in sexual intercourse and even embrace it for marriage and with multiple partners. This leads to a word that has been on my mind many a day lately and that's the subject of lust. Lust to me is what I find in a partner. And isn't love the way we are suppose to feel for all other humans? I have a partner, but my animalistic instincts direct me away from having just one partner. And that brings me to my point of if having a partner is even good in the first place. I feel in every day society and partner life/attachment, at least moving out to a semi secluded area down the road would be the most logical. That way I would not have to deal with the ongoing issue of lusting for the opposite sex. 

 

 Thoughts? 

 

Warmly,

 

Chi Boy

 

I attended a retreat in '94, held by a man named Tara Singh, who was an Indian and used to be a monk, and he said he thought that a monk probably stood less of a chance of finding enlightenment than somebody living out in the world.

 

I strongly believe this man had found enlightenment, based on my perception of and experiences with him, but I think he could easily be mistaken about his opinion.

 

Personally, I imagine that a monk would stand a better chance.

 

My view on the issue of desires, lust, sexuality, worldly activities, etc., is to enjoy them without suppression or guilt, and to integrate them into one's practice.

 

I see the traditional view of "renouncing pleasure and the world" as archaic, Old Age, and probably even potentially dangerous for seekers these days.

 

One way to approach it is to look into the desire and see what it is one is really and truly wanting.

 

My opinion is that it's not really FORM we want, but CONTENT.

 

What we really want is love, our worth, our divine nature, freedom, power, and so on.......the forms our desires take are just the particular way we experience our desire for content at a given time.

 

That's why, when you've really accepted your worth and divine identity, attachments naturally subside, because the essence of your desire is already fulfilled.

Edited July 21, 2016 by roger

[mindtooloud]

desire is an interesting phenomenon, specifically how it drives actions based in things like pleasure, appetite, careers, and other things we "need"

 

I like to focus on diet, and i wonder how much focus the OP places on food in comparison to the focus placed on things like textual studies, location, or perceived monk like life styles.

 

is the impulse to eat crappy food based in desire? Does this mean eating healthy is fighting against desire?

 

 

An interesting persoective, but is that to say that desire meditating is giving into desire? I have a strong desire to meditate.

I think the line between giving into desire and fighting desire is drawn in the desired final outcome or result, which in itself is a desire.

 

Would you tell me more about your focus on diet? I myself quit sugar despite my love for it

Edited July 21, 2016 by mindtooloud

[wuchiclan]

An interesting persoective, but is that to say that desire meditating is giving into desire? I have a strong desire to meditate.

I think the line between giving into desire and fighting desire is drawn in the desired final outcome or result, which in itself is a desire.

 

Would you tell me more about your focus on diet? I myself quit sugar despite my love for it

I focus on not poisoning myself, something i didn't do for a long time. It has helped me focus and is helping to improve my judgement......

 

I also have given up sugar! The ensuing hypoglycemia has been rough, but worth it. I use rice syrup and barley malt now as sweeteners, which helps.

[mindtooloud]

I focus on not poisoning myself, something i didn't do for a long time. It has helped me focus and is helping to improve my judgement......

 

I also have given up sugar! The ensuing hypoglycemia has been rough, but worth it. I use rice syrup and barley malt now as sweeteners, which helps.

 

Don't

You get enough sugar from fruits? I try yo eat lots of sweet fruits and gulp down honey since the sugar in them isn't processed.

[Orion]

My cursory understanding of enlightenment in the energetic sense is that it represents a lightening of energy, a decrease in density, and a greater level of dematerialization. One spirit inhabits the body, but the vessel has a dual nature... it is part animal and part spiritual. The character of the spirit which inhabits the body will draw on passions from either, but the process of perfecting oneself involves eventually taming the animal passions. It's not that the animal body is "wrong" or immoral, it's that without spiritual oversight, its automatic natures don't yield fruits of insight.

 

When religions staunchly denounce worldly pleasures, the subtext is that they are trying to promote a lifestyle that facilitates greater dematerialization. However, this can't be forced... hence there are monks all over the world engaging in worldly pleasures. There are always going to be different degrees of trials, expiations and attainments based on the level that the spirit is at and what it's here to achieve. Perhaps the spirit is not yet refined enough to avoid succumbing to worldly pleasures, but to proscribe punishments, shame, or belittlement based on that is not really productive. People are at where they're at.

 

About procreation... that's a controversial topic. Procreation may be a trial for the parents or for the child. Is it possible to attain greater refinement through the experience of parenthood? Sure. You can also stagnate spiritually by being sucked too much into the material realm by having to worry about family survival.

 

My point is... there are risks and gains to any path. It's not formulaic. There are tantrikas in this world who are gaining greater and greater refinement each day through the process of sexual cultivation.

 

It takes all kinds. People who scorn worldly pleasures are, in a way, trying to compassionately steer you in what they perceive to be the right direction, by using your free will to avoid densification of the spirit. But I think it's a bit of a misnomer... spiritual progress doesn't go backwards, only forwards. The worst that can happen is that you'll stagnate and not progress. On the other hand, we hear about awakened people all the time who were former drug addicts and what not. Only God knows.