Cultivation Gradations

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

So I have been reading a lot of back posts and topics and have found lots of great information. One that I found was from an interesting member, Li Jiong. It seems that he may have moved on from TTB but his info is interesting none the less.

 

I'm wondering if anyone cares to discuss and clear up something he was talking about?

 

 

As a cultivator, it is very important to learn about the gradations of internal cultivation.
Generally, we use the following level classification:
I. Refine Jing (vital essence) into Qi: this stage contains inside and outside Qi moving, small ZhouTian opening and Entryway opening three steps.
II. Refine Qi into Shen(spirit): this stage contains internal and external opportunities appear, big ZhouTian moving and the Entryway losing form three steps.
III. Refine Shen return emptiness: this stage contains primordial Shen appear, Shen baby in vitro and millions of incarnations three steps.
IV. Refine emptiness fit Tao

 

In different stages, there are different exercises accordingly. Just as when you are a pupil, you study primary curriculum, when you are a middle school student, you study high school curriculum, when you are a university student, you study university course. If you always study primary curriculum, even if you study very hard, and you have spent tens years on it, you will not be a university student.
However, in qigong circle, we see this strange phenomena often, many practioners have practised a first step exercise for many years, they don't know the gradations, and of course, they stay in the low level always.
Now you may know how important to learn about the gradations of internal cultivation.

 

 

What is meant by gradations? Can anyone expand on what is meant in terms of specific exercises? Maybe building a foundation would be things like "Pulling down the Heavens" and "Old Man in Tide Pool"? These would open and clear stagnation and allow the beginner to start the feeling. Next maybe simple belly breathing leading to MCO and reverse abdominal with opening and closing of hui yin?

 

What are your opinions and insights?

 

Let's discuss!

Edited July 24, 2016 by Wood Dragon-Metal Horse

[Ish]

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Edited April 4, 2018 by Ish

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

The important thing is the refinement of your spirit. Jing -> qi -> shen -> tao can be looked at as different grades of refinement.

 

One viewpoint I would like to throw out there is this:

 

The methodology of different mechanical practices and meditations to reach each level of refinement is perhaps a misguided approach - and does not really reflect how it actually works. It's more subtle that this.

 

Yes I agree, but in many traditions they use specific practices and meditations for each "level". For some you will not develop LDT until you have awakened your MCO. In others the focus is on purging and tonifying before we cultivate any internal or external. 

 

What I am really trying to discuss here is what the different processes are and what the commonalities are. In Li Jiong's post he talks about people practicing the same, first step so to say, for years without moving on. Let's start with his opinion. If he were still around maybe he would chime in. But since he is not what do you think his first step would be and what would the end goal of that be? I am not speaking of a particular exercise, but instead what is he attempting.

 

 

I saw this in another thread. It seems to be simplified and to the point. In the foundations what are some of the practices we may partake in? It seems basic mindfulness and emptiness meditation along with exercise and stretching would fall into that category. But what are some of the signs that we have accomplished enough to move on to the next "gradation"? Yes I know that a teacher becomes more necessary at this point, but can we not discuss?

 

*edit: Yes I know there are other ways of moving throughout this chart, but for now it's a satisfactory image for the purpose of this discussion. Let's not treat each other as though we don't know, but instead discuss what we do.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Wood Dragon-Metal Horse

[RiverSnake]

Your speaking of a very specific system of alchemy which probably no one on this forum is qualified to comment on. My own experience is that Simple = Powerful. Some systems give you a dozen different methods and techniques. Others give you one technique that is the whole enchilada. Engage with each on there own territory. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by OldChi

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

Your speaking of a very specific system of alchemy which probably no one on this forum is qualified to comment on. My own experience is that Simple = Powerful. Some systems give you a dozen different methods and techniques. Others give you one technique that is the whole enchilada. Engage with each on there own territory. 

 

This is interesting.. Which system of alchemy would you identify with this?

[Taoist Texts]

But what are some of the signs that we have accomplished enough to move on to the next "gradation"? Yes I know that a teacher becomes more necessary at this point, but can we not discuss?

of course we can. Here you go

 

 

6. Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light

 

http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ch6.html

Edited July 26, 2016 by Taoist Texts

[Spotless]

I cannot speak for any form of Qi Gong other than that which I study: Fohan Quan

 

If you practice often and diligently over a period of several years Basic forms and more specialized forms will be taught to you simply because a teacher moves along with the students in general.

 

Being taught "levels" is a blocking pattern - primarily because it invariably falls so very short in what you anticipate and because it is rarely so perfectly stratified. Thinking in terms of levels is something the mind absolutely loves - we lock on to these things - however oddly we have appraised them.

 

I was not taught any levels nor informed of any gradations - mainly because my Master speaks no English and I do not speak a word of Mandarin. He is an extraordinary teacher and that was all that mattered. It is also a part of this lineage not to talk allot but rather to practice allot.

 

A student did once mention the MCO about a year into it and that was about all that was made of it.

During the first year or so I learned about breathing and balance and imbalance and timing - I could feel my LDT immediately and this was a given though many take some time to feel it. It took a year for me to shake out some physical things and yet the subtleties appeared one after another in leaps and bounds - and this aspect has never stopped in five solid years of practice.

 

By year two and three all the major channels were vivid and eventually connected into a higher body.

Somewhere in the 3-4 years the LDT and MDT became quite bulbous and then the energy released upward into the UDT - a great deal of sustained changes then took place.

 

It was also in these years that the MCO opened up in a huge display and I have now come to know clearly which movements in particular exercise the MCO. It has also been extremely interesting to see just what incredible effects the MCO has and is capable of.

 

There are so many levels and so many things going on that I cannot conceive of stratifications that would not be conceptually limiting. With my students now very few are practicing intensly and everyday - even most of those that are relatively intense are a mixed bag of 2-4 practices.

 

Some want tricks, most are healers and a few are "Qi Gong teachers" that come in to find out what they are doing - from my perspective none of them so far should be teaching - most are fairly rank beginners who have been "certified". A bit like sport yoga found here in the USA - calisthenics - not yoga.

 

But - with that said - what emerges in all of the students over time is a growing perception that there is a whole lot more to this than previously thought. As they open up I can show them finer and finer details of breathing, posture, feet and toes and fingers and much more.

 

When someone askes me what a posture/movement is for - I typically do the movement and then explain most of the major areas of work and some of the finer points of the movement. I don't have a pat answer and I use English.

 

At this point there is no difference in postures in so far as levels - the simplistic forms are incredibly intense - just as the less well known ones. Much of the "advanced" stuff cannot be conveyed easily yet it is very simple - like gripping with ones toes - until your toes reach out like your fingers and until the energy centers on each tip is enlivened - speaking of certain things is too obscure to relate. You have to teach basic theory and hint at the important stuff here and there - half the time you can see the blocks in their spaces light up from books and quotes in their heads.

 

I hope this rambling helps -

Edited July 26, 2016 by Spotless

[子泰]

Probably a good idea not to fret over levels or goals a beginner mindset is generally valued in cultivation

[RiverSnake]

 

There are so many levels and so many things going on that I cannot conceive of stratifications that would not be conceptually limiting. 

 

 

Probably a good idea not to fret over levels or goals a beginner mindset is generally valued in cultivation

 

What they said. 

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Daoism has three tracks and they are not related to your energetic field.

The top track is someone who upon learning the right way to immediately dedicates themselves to it and achieves it.

The middle track is someone who can sometimes grasp it and sometimes forgets.

The low track is someone who although professing to practice the way, in fact uses his skill for nefarious purposes.

 

Qing Jing Jing Tu Zhu by Hun Ranzi and Shui Jingzi has a good section on this subject which essentially says that a high level practitioner does not need to argue with others and is able to successfully change yin to yang energy, becoming a "junzi dao zhang" (gentleman Daoist).   A low level master, although loving to study the Dao, is unable to cultivate yang energy because he likes to fight and dispute, so he will enter yin and be a "Xiao ren dao zhang." (small man Daoist).

 

I personally believe that as we gain insight and compassion for the plight of others, we can develop wisdom, which will advance our cause in cultivating the dao.

I wrote an article in Chinese recently which I'll translate here briefly:

 

self cultivation has three levels,

the first is the highest level, the second is the middle level, the third is the low level.

Laozi said in the Dao De Jing "the high level master hears the Dao and works hard to grasp it. the middle level master hears the dao and sometimes holds it and sometimes forgets. The low level master hears the Dao and laughs outright.   without this laugh, how could it be valued as the way?"

from this we can see the basic arrangement of the three levels. 

actually, the low level isn't someone who doesn't study the Dao, it is someone who has a narrow and shallow root.  it isnt that these people don't believe in the dao, it just means his belief isn't mature.  so this is true of many people who have just recently begun to study,  and they can certainly make progress and achieve the middle level of achievement.

the danger of the low level is that if you don't use "bitter training" and "cleanse the heart" to advance, you can move backward and become a "petty Daoist."   Qing Jing Jing Tu Zhu says: the top level master seems to enter into yang. he is the gentleman daoist.  The low level master seems to enter yin, he is a petty daoist."

so the low level person hasn't yet "exhuasted yin and completed yang."   They also still carry with them the diseases of yin and haven't abdandoned them yet.   It isn't that he can't, it is just that he has yet to.

the middle level is "sometimes grasp it sometimes forget it," and is already a good achievement.   Many people can't even get to this level.   This way of practice usually involves the person already knowing how to "sit upright and look within. forget the interior environment of the room."    "sometimes grasping" means that the person can enter the pre heaven state, but "sometimes forgetting" means that when they aren't practicing seated meditation, they can't hold on to the clear and quiet state they achieved during practice.  

if this type of person works hard, they can advance to the high level stage, but if they don't, then they will stay in the stage of "cultivating life, and living for a long time before growing old."

The higher level of practice is a "absolute oneness" state of the mind.   It really isn't very many people who can do this.   So why is it the high level?

it is because all of our lives are filled with the experience of pressure.   How do we interact with other people without experiencing conflict?

Qing jing Jing says: "the high level master doesn't argue.  The low level master loves to argue"

This is really true!

If people wish to attain the highest level of achievement, they really can't love to fight with others.  They can't love to be angry, and they can't decide the difference between good and bad all in one moment.     Although this ability isn't the highest level, it is the basic requirement to achieve such a practice.   If you can't achieve this basic, there won't be a chance to "long enter the Dao."   People who don't love to argue will gradually become quiet and still.  Still and quiet can become clear and quiet and enter the pre heaven state.   gradually and with time they will become natural, so how difficult can it really be?

Naturally doing all things is the highest level.  having to struggle to do things is the lowest level.   low, middle, and high are all different levels, but they are transitive.   You can advance upon your current level, just make sure you believe that the Dao is your original nature and your original mind is the Dao."

 

 

 

 

I used mostly DDJ, qingjing Jing, and QJJ Tu Zhu for my source material for this.

Hope it helps illustrate that achievement in Daoism is not just about Qi and emptiness, but also about virtue and relationships with others.

[Wood Dragon-Metal Horse]

Very interesting stuff everyone. Good reading.

 

It seems that asking a straight forward question will be answered with a sort of koan.. Not that these answers didn't get me what I want...

 

But to be more straight forward, here is something I have learned:

 

In order to ready ourselves for a true teacher and neigong leading to medicine there are a few things that can be done in order to have the process be less risky. Of course one could take to the sometimes more religious route and go straight to Tao, but this takes a much more adept person it seems.

 

First, ready the body. This comes first with diet. A diet based on leafy greens seems to be the best no matter what your genealogy. Think about us in balance with the planet. We were hunters and gatherers. If we were nomadic, what was the most abundant food source no matter the season? Greens are everywhere, even beneath snow. Greens are abundant in and around water. If you are familiar with the seasons and how they affect our food sources it is easy to guide our decisions on food. Berries, large fruit, nuts, and root vegetables all come and go with the seasons. We may be able to get these foods for most of the year, but in no way would we have access to the same fruits and veggies all year. The last touch is animal flesh. Now I know what the texts say about flesh of the beast. But back when we were in balance with nature of Earth there were many more animals and it would have been easier for us to have the small amount needed to keep us physically healthy. Just look up liposomal vitamin C. Of course this only comes with healthy, live plant eating animals. Keep in mind the amino acids need for collagen replication.

 

Now what is necessary from our diet from a physical standpoint is very roughly outlined. The animal flesh is one that is debatable and is your choice, but it helps for the next part. Also keep in mind the great impact it would have on our earth if we were to support the re-integration of ruminants to our grasslands. Our grasslands with ruminants on them are the greatest carbon sequestering resource on Earth. They are the lungs of Earth and the ruminants are the blood/qi moving the resources.

 

Physical strengthening.. If we were in balance with Earth nature we would have had to be active. We would walk, run, crawl (quadrupedal movement), lift, carry, throw, climb, balance, stretch dynamically and statically, and swim.  These activities will open our channels, connect our brain and enteric nervous system to the rest of our bio-energetic nervous system. Being active will not only allow us to feel the energy of our bodies and ready our systems for internal alchemy but also allow us to get the most of our diet. Without movement our metabolic processes slow and our reproduction of DNA degrades.

 

Keep in mind epigenetics and the effects of plant RNA on our system.

 

The last part of this health trio is the mind. In a natural setting we are constantly learning and absorbing. We learn to quiet our minds in order to hunt plants, animals, and materials. So this equates to mindfulness/emptiness meditation. The key here is to not try but do. I particularly like what Taoist Texts gave us a few posts up, "Turning the Light".

 

These are all things that we can learn by ourselves or from a book or the web. These are objectives that will lead us to healthier lives and ready us for the cultivation of the internal. This does not mean that the internal cultivation is not risky. But it can be less so.

 

Once we feel peaceful, our emotions no longer rule us, and our bodies feel happy, glowing and strong, we will have a foundation that will allow us good progress into the inner world.

 

This is just one way. This is one way. This way almost everyone can use, either in part or whole.

 

Discuss?

 

*edit: Don't forget sleep! Ample sleep is necessary before we know how to gather energy from other sources.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Wood Dragon-Metal Horse