Muhammad Ali getting tossed like a rag doll

[Yoda]

I've never been aware of this story before. My brother says that this happened the night before Ali was to fight Andre the Giant, but the fight got cancelled after Ali got owned. Apparently, Ali got angry about how staged the match was, but it didn't follow that he could have beat the guy.

 

 

Starts at 2:00:

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s4OiBbEditM

 

My brother said that Ali's portion wasn't staged. I can believe it... I can't see Ali's ego consenting to go down so shamefully at the very height of his career (1 year after his Foreman victory).

[Cameron]

O'Sensei would own them all and he was only 5 ft tall.

[doc benway]

O'Sensei would own them all and he was only 5 ft tall.

Perhaps, perhaps not... it ain't easy fighting a good boxer or a good wrestler.

I'd put a good MMA fighter up against any of them, including O-sensei, with all due respect...

[Cameron]

Fedor would own all of them I know that much.

 

I mean...I love Ali and Gorilla Monsoon but Fedor would own them.

 

Randy Couteur probably would take them down and ground and pound until the mat was a bloody mess.

 

I think O'Sensei was on the superhuman level and they wouldn't even get ahold of him.

 

Anyway..it's just fun..I don't see how anyone can take bodyslamming a grown man seriously

 

Probably the most impressive thing about O'Sensei is he was able to train into old age.

 

I don't care who you think the Ultimate Fighter is if I can be half of what this dude was as an old man that is the goal.

 

I mean just look at him..this is an 80 year old man!

 

link

[Pero]

I don`t know, this looks staged to me.

[Cameron]

Ali and Gorilla or O'Sensei?

[agharta]

Perhaps, perhaps not... it ain't easy fighting a good boxer or a good wrestler.

I'd put a good MMA fighter up against any of them, including O-sensei, with all due respect...

 

 

Wow. I have a feeling I could hold my own against a lot of the better MMA guys, and I'm 5'7", maybe 140 lbs. It's not how big or fast you are, when we're talking about the better quality Asian martial arts. Trust me. Or take Ken Shamrock or one of the Gracies or any of those guys to China and see how fast they get their asses whipped. By the way, this isn't an argument. I've seen footage of O'sensei, as well as of some of his better students. There's no contest. That doesn't even touch on some of the better Chinese martial artists and systems. Please. Don't embarrass yourself. Find a discussion where you actually have some real experience. Please. If you keep talking, I'm afraid I'll laugh at you so hard that I'll scare the neighbors' dog.

[hagar]

What's up with this "My dad is stronger than your dad" - exchange?

[Adam West]

Cool vid... but oh so staged! Ali was PUT down, certainly not thrown down...

 

Fun as...

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

[Yoda]

I agree, it does appear to be staged. I just don't understand why MA would put up with the humiliation of being beaten. Lost a bet or something?

[Cameron]

Dude that was like the 70's.

 

Anything that happened in the 70's doesn't count.

[VCraigP]

What's up with this "My dad is stronger than your dad" - exchange?

 

Aint it silly.

How many times have I seen this type of talk.

 

I remember the VERY FIRST time I went on the internet, way , way back near the beginning, sometime before 1996 I think, when it wasn't very widely available. There were already people talking about who could beat who. Muhammed Ali Vs. Bruce Lee and the like. The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

Who knows who will beat who, or why.

 

Can you best yourself?

 

I know I could defeat the martial artist I was 10 years ago. thats something I think.

 

la de da....back to the mat.

 

Craig

[Pero]

Ali and Gorilla or O'Sensei?

 

I meant Ali, but not entirely sure about Ueshiba.

[doc benway]

 

Wow. I have a feeling I could hold my own against a lot of the better MMA guys, and I'm 5'7", maybe 140 lbs.

Give it a try and let us know how you fare... having a feeling is easy.

 

It's not how big or fast you are, when we're talking about the better quality Asian martial arts. Trust me. Or take Ken Shamrock or one of the Gracies or any of those guys to China and see how fast they get their asses whipped.

Why aren't those guys from China (or Taiwan, Singapore, or Japan) showing up and walking away with the prize money? When they do show up, they tend to get beat...

There's no contest. That doesn't even touch on some of the better Chinese martial artists and systems. Please. Don't embarrass yourself. Find a discussion where you actually have some real experience. Please. If you keep talking, I'm afraid I'll laugh at you so hard that I'll scare the neighbors' dog.

You can make as many gratuitous assertions as you'd like - it doesn't make them true.

Edited February 3, 2008 by xuesheng

[gendao]

My brother said that Ali's portion wasn't staged. I can believe it... I can't see Ali's ego consenting to go down so shamefully at the very height of his career (1 year after his Foreman victory).

Lol, you gotta be kidding me???

 

How the hell was that "not staged?"

 

Especially with Ali laying on the floor faking hurtin' and acting like he couldn't get up for a while? C'mon, this is rasslin', people!

 

 

Next thing, someone is going to claim that Meg Ryan wasn't really faking it in When Harry Met Sally.

Edited November 26, 2007 by vortex

[Cameron]

O-sensei was human, by the way.

 

 

Martial arts arguments are a bottomless pit.

 

Best thing is to just show people in person(Not violently!) The best martial artists I know are super laid back and friendly..and they definetly wouldn't engage in these silly type of internet discussions.

 

Probably it's about time I started to follow there example a little.

 

We are all winners! Yay!

[Yoda]

So even a mega ego like Ali could stage a loss... anything that happened in the 70s doesn't count... point well taken.

[doc benway]

Martial arts arguments are a bottomless pit.

Agreed - just hang out on EmptyFlower for a day... I did not intend to start one nor should I have risen to the bait to perpetuate one...

 

Probably it's about time I started to follow there example a little.

 

You and me both!

[agharta]

Give it a try and let us know how you fare... having a feeling is easy.

Why aren't those guys from China (or Taiwan, Singapore, or Japan) showing up and walking away with the prize money? When they do show up, they tend to get beat...

 

You can make as many gratuitous assertions as you'd like - it doesn't make them true.

Please enjoy yourself - I'm glad you find my comments entertaining.

I've studied Asian martial arts relatively consistently for 35 years -

Shorinjiryu Kenyukai including full contact fighting for ~ 10 years (with the student of the founder of style from Japan),

Kendo and Iaido for a few years

Wing Chun for about 10 years

Taijiquan and Xingyiquan for the past 5 (with a Grandmaster of our style from Singapore).

 

One of my classmates has won two world championships in full contact lei tai fighting - one in Brazil and one in Singapore. Damn good fighter. He's doing his best to break out in the MMA circuit but is really having a time of it - those guys can fight. I think you're deluded about the 'magic' of Chinese martial arts. I have a lot of respect for what they can do (I still train myself) but I also have a realistic understanding of the difference between effectiveness and delusion. O-sensei was human, by the way.

 

 

 

 

mmm-hmmm. Your martial arts knowledge and a quarter will buy a cup of coffee.

 

I know there are guys like you out there, who've spent decades honestly slogging away, only to never learn anything of great value. I feel for you. I don't know what to say about it, but I feel for you.

 

Seriously, man, I think some of the better internal martial artists on the board are avoiding arguing with you because they're afraid they won't be able to take you seriously in a general sense. I know I can, though. I'm sure you have lots of intelligent things to say on other subjects...just not Chinese martial arts.

 

I can't help but mention that there are at least 2 or 3 guys here (probably more like 6 or 8) who personally know people who could easily wipe the mat with the best of the UFC crowd. Like I said, I think I could hold my own. My teacher could kill any of them in about 1/3 of a second, I shit ye not. Those guys are wasting their time rolling around and beating the hell out of each other. You want skills? The UFC is not the best place. Not the worst, but not the best.

 

Oh wow. 35 years? Wow. Poor guy. Oh man.

[Cameron]

One of the highest level IMA I know. 25 year disciple of a top Chinese IMA and all around bad ass, is also one of the most humble and down to Earth people I ever met.

 

I mean, if I have ever met anyone who is a legitimate bad ass it is him..yet he still chooses to remain humble.

 

One time I asked him about BJJ. His answer "You don't want to go to the ground with a Jiu Jitsu guy".

 

He summed up in one sentence the common sense and pragmatism of a lifetime of training.

[agharta]

There are levels beyond that, Cam. Levels where skills on the purely physical level are not only useless, but actually dangerous to the practitioner. If someone with highly-developed physical level skill attacks someone with skills beyond the physical level, they are actually more likely to be seriously harmed than if someone with no skill or training does the same. My teacher had a student with 10 years of training, and great speed and skill. He had told the fellow "mike, you can't go fast with me". One day, mike did, and, given the situation, my sifu had to use a non-physical, energy-level attack. I'll be the first to admit I know very little about such methods, but the upshot of it was that the top of Mike's forearm "blew up". Blood starting spurting everywhere, from dozens of small holes that weren't there before. This is the same sifu that once, without me knowing what was coming, threw me across the room without touching me or moving at all.

 

This shit is real, folks. Do not fuck with the "old-timers", as my sifu calls them.

[Cameron]

What your talking about sounds more in line with what Sifu Max does-throwing people without physical touch-.

 

Yeah..that is another level..and some old school IMA on the board like Buddy think it's BS.

 

It's quite a deep issue really. I mean, I beleieve in it. I think Max can do it. I think O'Sensei could do it. But there is alyways that MMA or BJJ guy who says "It's bs..they only demonstrate on there students, it wouldn't work against a BJJ black belt."

 

And you can't really argue with them because it's true..most all of them demonstrate only on there students.

 

It actually doesn't bother me .The last thing I would want to see is some BJJ black belt going for a take down on Sifu Max. I mean..regardless of the outcome that just doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

But if we are going to have these discussions might as well have them.

[agharta]

When my sifu threw me, I had no idea he could even do that. I had no idea such things were possible at ALL. I never saw or heard of him doing it before that, or after that. He didn't tell me what was coming. Power of suggestion? I seriously, really doubt it. How can you suggest something like that without telling or showing? He neither told nor showed, nor did anyone in class tell or show me.

 

I'm telling you, Cam, ask Plato about some of the martial stuff he saw people doing in the parks in China in the mornings. It's teh wacky shit. Ask him about meeting Nan Huai Chan. That's an interesting story.

[gendao]

I'm telling you, Cam, ask Plato about some of the martial stuff he saw people doing in the parks in China in the mornings. It's teh wacky shit. Ask him about meeting Nan Huai Chan. That's an interesting story.

You mean this guy? What he do?

Edited November 27, 2007 by vortex

[agharta]

That's Plato's story to tell. I wasn't there. But it's weird.