I want to start practicing Tao, but there are some problems...

[beancurdturtle]

uh, I'm a bit overwhelmed

Aiyah! I can see why.

 

Listen friend. All the advice is well intentioned. Yet, it all seems to have missed the obvious.

 

Begin at - well... the beginning. Read several translations of the Dao de Jing.

 

Go here: http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/Menu/VertikalVergleich.html

 

1. On the left side at the top, select "Merel 2" from "other languages." I say Merel because it is well aligned for a Western mind not familiar with Taoist philosophy - and the alignment is neutral for the most part.

 

2. Read it. Yes, read all of it. It's just 81 short verses.

 

3. Select another English translation on the top right side. Now read it, and compare it to Merel.

 

4. Select another English translation. Read at least 5 translations. Why 5? Because it will give you a foundation to establish a good BS barometer when you find an interesting "teacher." And don't come back here until you've read 5.

 

5. When you find an interesting "teacher" or "practice" - read chapter 38. Does the teacher or practice espouse any ritual? Does the "teacher" or "practice" require any belief? If yes - move on.

 

6. When you are confused, choose a chapter at random and read it. If still confused, choose another - and repeat until you are no longer confused, or distracted from your original confusion by something new you didn't see last time you read the chapter.

 

Above all... enjoy the learning.

 

 

 

Now someone might argue that the Dao de Jing is not the beginning. Don't listen to anyone who presents an argument with intention, including me. Thoughts (arguments included) are not reality.

 

Peace,

Edited November 26, 2007 by beancurdturtle

[Wayfarer64]

The Yi JIng (I Ching) was the beginning for me. Breathing and posture and the will to be the best you that can be managed in this wild and wooly world are basic to predispose you towards your path.

 

But the path is always there in the first place!!! Opening your awareness to your place along the path and what you may do to progress with insight and spiritual joy and deeper appreciation of the moment by moment existance you are blessed with- to reach a fullfilled perspective and resonant stance in your day to day activities takes patience and dedication...

So just be yourself as best you are able -that is the way to be of the Tao in my interpretation... and enjoy your life! It is so precious, do not waste it in needless worries.

 

 

If my little book of poetry helps thats cool too-

http://www.lulu.com/pdgart

 

namaste & peace - Pat

[doc benway]

There were some good reading suggestions in this thread:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=3966&hl=

 

I found the classics to be very difficult to understand when I first started exploring them, particularly Dao De Jing. I just didn't get that much out of it in the beginning.

 

The first significant thing that opened my mind to what I understand as the meaning of Daoism was reading "When the Shoe Fits - Commentaries on the Taoist Mystic Chuang Tzu" by Osho. That's what stimulated me to become a Dao disciple and practice cultivation. Now the classics speak to me differently. They are such that you can keep coming back year after year and discover new things. The key is to avoid becoming put off in the beginning. I'd recommend some initial readings by some of the more contemporary, Western writers, as they are more straightforward and can give a bit of an introduction. The classics are undergraduate and graduate level. It's nice to start with some elementary and prep school material, IMO. There's a wonderful comic series out of Japan, I believe, that includes illustrations and excerpts from Dao De Jing and Zhuangzi. If I can find the name, I'll post it.

[beginner16]

hiya

 

 

I will read the stuff you recomended and then some; but I will not rush things and try to digest them all at once

 

 

Perhaps if you find the article on the dangers to mix the practises you can put it here on tao bums and people we can see what it is and then you/we will have more knowledge on this.

 

I think I typed in "mixing tao and yoga", but am not sure since I didn't find it. Perhaps the page was talking about mixing vipassana and yoga, since I found few pages on that ( memory is a funny thing )

 

I thank you all for your help, since you did help me figure out how to begin

 

thank you

 

 

 

cheers

[Jakara]

Hi there,

 

I would start by asking yourself the same question that a Daoist priest asked me when I told him I wanted to be daoist..

 

- What is it that you want to learn?

 

There are many aspects to daoist practice: non-dualistic meditation; yoga (dao yin); qigong; ritual; astrology/geomancy; alchemy.

 

The typical daoist practices most of these in differeing mixtures depending on which school they were trained by. Traditionally to be daoist meant you were trained as a priest, and if you went to a temple, ritual would be the first thing you were taught. There are also hermits who choose not to be priests but simply meditate and practice yogas and other techniques away from society.

 

The same priest told me there are generally 3 paths available as daoists:

 

1 - The way of the shaman (daoism is heavily rooted in shamanism)

2 - The yogic practitioner

3 - The wu-wei practitioner

 

The first way is generally what priests follow, they perform rituals for a congregation much like a catholic priest might perform for catholics. Their meditation practice and other techniques are practiced in solitude and are not the main emphasis of their official training.

 

The second path is the way of the yogic practitioner, who through alchemy and yoga transform their body into a format that is acceptable to live in the immortal realms. These guys follow strict diets, alchemy and yogic practices with meditation. As far as I know they do little ritual in the sense that a priest would.

 

The third path is a little harder to explain, it is the path of the wu-wei practitioner. Wu-wei is related to non-compulsive action. The main practice of wu-wei practitioners is non-dualistic meditation, which is also their daily ritual. Wu-wei practitioners are free from compulsion, they have no desires or fears to do this, that or the other. They go where the wind takes them, you may have heard of cloud wonderers. Wu-wei practitioners take on many roles, if they are needed to be a priest then they do so, if they are needed to be a teacher they do that. The difference is they do it with a completely free mind. They are never entranced by whichever activity they are participating in. This is one of the results of non-dualistic meditation.

 

So what is it that you want to learn?

I can recommend some books of real daoism if you like? Traditional teachers are hard to find, I would steer clear of the pop-daoism as you called it :-)

 

Jak

Edited November 27, 2007 by Jakara

[beginner16]

[Fire Dragon]

Tsai Chih Chung does some books on zen tao and others in a cartoon format. Quite funny!

 

Sincerely S D

 

I do not believe in only options. Perhaps you find your teachers in your life in a easier way. Perhaps not.

Take one step in a time and the things will develop as they should. You might also get spiritual guidance during your training telling what to do. It might not be the things you believe in this moment! A long jerney starts with one step! Be within this step and apriciate it! This is going the way!

 

It sounds perhaps trivial and easy but might be the hardest thing for the beginner!

 

Sincerely S D

[beancurdturtle]

Oh!

 

The third path; wu-wei, philosophical taoism, or ancient taoism. The path that snuck up and chose me.

 

The third path is a little harder to explain, it is the path of the wu-wei practitioner. Wu-wei is related to non-compulsive action. They are never entranced by whichever activity they are participating in.

Or perhaps, they are equally and impartially entranced by everything.

[beancurdturtle]

[Wayfarer64]

There is quite a lot of esoteric "wisdom" bandied about here. Much of it is quite good. But For any path you take, keeping your feet on the ground and your awareness of where you are at each moment -and appreciating the splendors of this life while yr there... is usually worth the attention paid in any case.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[Gerard]

I suggest you do the following:

 

Sit down on a cushion(s), close your eyes, breath in and breath out and let go.

 

Do this for 20 years.

 

Then come back and see where are you at.

 

Here are some manuals. Free available to anyone. No frills.

 

 

http://www.buddhanet.net/ebooks_m.htm

 

 

Taoist:

 

http://www.1stholistic.com/Meditation/hol_..._meditation.htm

 

It doesn't matter what method you follow as long as you are able to control your mind.

 

Personally I believe Vipassana is on the apex of meditations. Available on the Buddhist link.

 

 

Enjoy the path.

[Jakara]

The 3 paths of daoism are not strict paths, they are traditional paths, we do not need to adhere to one path without a flavour for the others, this is just what was done traditionally. But its also important to not simply collect a bunch of daoist techniques from books to practice.

 

If there are a set of practices you enjoy it might be best to find a teacher for those who has a good system with a proper lineage involving these teachniques. You may have heard of the various schools of daoism: Heavenly master, Dragon gate, Complete reality, Precious Jewel etc. These are the schools of traditional daoism and teachers should trace their lineage to one of these schools, or perhaps a well known family or hermit. These schools are still in existence today.

 

Most of the stuff we read about is pop daoism (I like that phrase now) so its important to separate the fantasy from the facts.

 

Here is a few books my daoist priest friend recommended to me:

 

The Taoist Body - Kristofer Schipper

Original Tao - Harold Roth

Dao De Jing - Redpine

 

Livia Kohn's works are also very good, though the book I have is out of print now. These books are authorative and although very scholarly, they provide a good insight into real daoism.

 

He also said that it is important to practice according the the situation that we are in - We need not gallivant around the world in a heroic quest to find a teacher. I found this very frustrating when he told me, how can we learn without a teacher? There's no easy answer.

 

There are perhaps more teachers around than you might expect though, or practitioners who do not advertise themselves as teachers. Simply obtaining advice from a respected teacher on a regular basis is often just as good, as long as you are clear on the practices.

 

Daoist teachers often met with their students just once per year to discuss their method, practice and study text. They then sent them away again for another year to practice. We do not need to be in constant contact after we are clear on what we are doing. In the modern world this can be accomplished with the use of emails and yearly visits to our teacher if need be, so there is hope :-)

 

I personally would avoid training with unorthodox teachers, and would do more research and investigation into what is available. If we need to make a trip somewhere then so be it, as long as we aren't entertaining our egos in a fantastical quest. We shouldn't settle for the best of what's convenient.

 

In the meantime, practice some non-dualistic meditation every day. This meditation is used in every flavour of daoism, whichever path you choose or teacher you train with. There are many books on non-dualistic meditation, the best are perhaps written by Zen practitioners ("Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind" is a good example) as this is the very core of their practice.

We simply sit, and pay attention to the moment without thoughts, but we do not suppress thoughts if they arise, we simply move our awareness back to the moment.

I was told to sit for an hour a day, which is difficult at first, but the time is not so important as the quality. We dont want to create another fantasy by trying to beat our previous sitting times, then it simply becomes a game.

 

Jak

[beginner16]

Alrighty, will check the books you've recommended over at the amazon and buy one or two ( for starters )

 

 

thank you for your kind input

 

cheers