The rule of keeping the cultivation secret

[nine tailed fox]

In india there is a kind of unwritten rule which says that you never tell anybody about your cultivation experiences otherwise you will loose them, your spiritual progress will get impeded

 

Now i want to know, to what extant this rule applies ? 

 

And is there any written record of such warning in any spiritual text, be it buddhist or other

 

Does this rule mean that no body should even know that you are cultivating 

 

If you see someone harboring wrong views of cultivation and you try to tell them what actually cutivation means, you explain them about real cultivation and spirituality

 

does this also break this rule of secrecy because they will know that you are cultivating

 

So you cant even talk to anybody about cultivation ? 

 

Does this just apply to sharing experiences or even talking about cultivation will break it ? 

 

And if a person breaks this rule, what he can do to remedy this ? 

 

What this rule actually is and to what extant this rule applies ?  i would love to see some spiritual texts quotes on this

 

Does this mean total and complete secrecy of cultuvation? 

 

I want to know about this rule completely because it has bothered me from quite some time,  i also dont know which spiritual texts mention it

 

What you are allowed to share and what you are not allowed to share ? 

Edited July 29, 2016 by nine tailed fox

[Spotless]

It is a far less dense rule than you might imagine.

 

Basically it is a rule that is to guide you to keep your practice to yourself as practice is found by oneself for ones self and it is a personal guide to your answers - the only answers you will ever know.

 

It is a guide to not be moved upon the path of another - not to be sliced from your path because of a judgement from another.

 

It is a guide to protect you as you start your journey to keep this treasure of practice guarded until you are grounded in it. To protect it from your own frailties.

 

It is a guiding rule to keep your progress from dissipation and confusion or regret.

 

It is a guiding rule to allow you present time with your progress and not pain it by open comparisons.

 

It is a guiding rule to keep unhindered your throat and heart as much of this is met with judgement and resistance and it will be thrown back at you for communicating it.

 

It is wise to know you can keep secrets with no effort - without being secretive.

[Kar3n]

I read that there are some rules/vows, however, I am unable to find the link right now. I will keep looking.

I found the following after a quick google search:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaya Take note of #7

 

http://tricycle.org/trikedaily/social-media-guidelines-vajrayana-students/

 

http://www.jiva.org/secret-sadhana/

[Apech]

I read that there are some rules/vows, however, I am unable to find the link right now. I will keep looking.

I found the following after a quick google search:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaya Take note of #7

 

http://tricycle.org/trikedaily/social-media-guidelines-vajrayana-students/

 

 

Number 14 is a good one

[9th]

6  -  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

 

7  -  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

 

 

- Gospel of Matthew, Ch. 7

 

[Edward M]

I'd say from experience that if you tell someone about your realisation straight away, it dilutes the strength of it by a long way.

 

 This i'd say is because you haven't had time to live the realisation and consolidate it into your way of life and thus make it knowledge/gnosis, and also there will be an association even if unconscious with the person you shared the realisation with, which can divert the energy of it to your internal sense of that person.  

 

Cheers

[Aetherous]

Value and power leaves out of the mouth.

If you keep something absolutely secret, you care about it more than something you speak to everyone about. Something only mildly interesting in normal circumstances, becomes a treasure if kept as a secret. Sometimes it's good to treasure certain ideas...such as ones involved with what you intend to cultivate.

If you try to accomplish some goal, never discussing your work allows you to focus on actually doing it...you have this excess of energy which wants to go somewhere, and you can choose to put it where it belongs...whereas if you tell someone "I'm working on this project, listen to this...." your power for your work goes into talking about it rather than accomplishing it. In talking, you're "expressing your enthusiasm"...in other words, your enthusiasm leaves your body in that moment. It's better to retain that enthusiasm, then channel it through the pen, through your hands accomplishing the task, through learning that's required, or whatever else. It's best to only talk about your projects after you've succeeded in them.

There are many other reasons, but these are two potential ones.

[Edward M]

Lao Tzu: 'If you try to change it, you will ruin it, if you try to hold on to it, you will lose it'   telling others means you are grasping at the realisation....    imho 

 

Peace

[Spotless]

In india there is a kind of unwritten rule which says that you never tell anybody about your cultivation experiences otherwise you will loose them, your spiritual progress will get impeded

 

Now i want to know, to what extant this rule applies ? 

 

And is there any written record of such warning in any spiritual text, be it buddhist or other

 

Does this rule mean that no body should even know that you are cultivating 

 

If you see someone harboring wrong views of cultivation and you try to tell them what actually cutivation means, you explain them about real cultivation and spirituality

 

does this also break this rule of secrecy because they will know that you are cultivating

 

So you cant even talk to anybody about cultivation ? 

 

Does this just apply to sharing experiences or even talking about cultivation will break it ? 

 

And if a person breaks this rule, what he can do to remedy this ? 

 

What this rule actually is and to what extant this rule applies ?  i would love to see some spiritual texts quotes on this

 

Does this mean total and complete secrecy of cultuvation? 

 

I want to know about this rule completely because it has bothered me from quite some time,  i also dont know which spiritual texts mention it

 

What you are allowed to share and what you are not allowed to share ?

 

The "rule" (which it is not) is to keep you from your own frailties - the frailties of fear and also judgement from others and all sorts of stuff we dream up. It is fear that often has us running off at the mouth - trying to gain acceptance or have someone judge something for us or to trump them with our accomplishments.

 

But one of our greatest frailties is to label. As you talk of something you have achieved in practice it very quickly moves to an explained story and then it is a packaged caged dead thing in a sense.

 

It is easy to come up with all sorts of voodoo reasons for not telling others and their is a ring of truth to all of the above - but in the end it is simply best to stay in the now with what has transpired - you can bring your presence to it from time to time - zero need to classify it, label it, find meaning in it - just being with it allows so much more.

 

And there will be times you may wish to bring it / them up and some will be appropriate - it is not some cryptic secrecy thing - none of this stuff is cryptic secrecy stuff (though some price their info/workshops/seminars as though it is).

[3bob]

Btw, the subject of this string is far from being just in "India", or just to do with a spiritual practice.

 

If one is being given particular instructions by a teacher one does not blab off about it - for they are not the teacher...

One could say in very general or generic terms to another, "I'm doing Yoga" or whatever it may be, but there are problems as mentioned in the other posts when going further than that, although if another person wants to find out more then they could be given public type information about where or how to come across such teachings for themselves. 

 

The fruits or results of a practice in one's state of being are not hidden per-se, just as light can not really be hidden under a bushel (or however that saying goes)  although those that do not see or even consider such can not be forced to see, which would back-fire if tried.

Edited August 5, 2016 by 3bob

[thelerner]

ego is insidious.

[3bob]

off topic but:  every time one wrestles with ego some of its moves are learned, moves that it can't pull so easily the next time and which have limits...

Edited August 5, 2016 by 3bob

[3bob]

basic sayings like,  "the need to know" and "loose lips sink ships" have some bearing on the subject being that there is a war going on.   Btw, the results or fruits of a spiritualized practice are not so hidden if they include greater kindness, consideration, compassion, careful and wise judgement, a listening to and such for all the beings we are involved with...

 

Also and in using an analogy:  if you are doing ok with basic math and are now starting with  algebra would you load someone else down with the rules of algebra (that you are not fully sure of yet) when they don't even know their basic math?  That would be a good way to discourage someone along with them dropping out of math studies.  (or being part of them totally screwing up an important equation)

Edited August 20, 2016 by 3bob

[thetaoiseasy]

Chi rises from the feet, to the navel, to the chest, to between the eyes, to between the eyebrows, then finally to the middle of the head.  The middle of head is Tao, the center of our original being.

 

If you have excess emotion, the chi gets stuck at the navel.

If you have excess desire, it gets stuck at the chest.

If you have excess rationality, it gets stuck between the eyes.

If you have excess virtue, it gets stuck between the eyebrows. 

 

Speaking tends to stir all these centers excessively and blocks the rise of chi to Tao.  

 

This is the technical explanation.   But here's the spirit of the situation.  Cultivation engages the wordless sphere.  By speaking excessively, you bring your cultivation down to the described and conceptual level.  So unless you are truly stable in your achievement, you run the risk of losing your progress. That said, silence is also no guarantee for any development either, as one can easily brew emotion, desire, and strong thoughts in one's head.

[joeblast]

I try to balance this with my audience and the notion of "will what I have to say help my audience?"

 

If your audience has little context to understand what you are telling them, then it is useless.

 

But often times, what one has to say can have profound implications on the practices of others.

 

Which is why you see me write so much of breathwork, and so little of other things.

 

If one says "I did X and Y and spacetime ripped open in front of me along this axis and blah and blah and blah" who are you really helping?  Nobody.  (One's teacher might have something worthwhile to respond with...)

 

But relating what happens when the nerves have all been quieted from doing aware breathwork, describing the mechanics thereof, and saying how there's no perception of the body there....well that's entirely different from the latter sentence.

 

Know your audience and know what sort of material is appropriate to relate.  Things you relate to your close teachers and students are far greater than things you relate to a bunch of veritable strangers on the internet.

[Daeluin]

I think it is simply the principle of harmony.

 

Giving and receiving are one. At advanced levels we may not wish to speak often to preserve the energy of the heart, and yet we are still engaged in a giving and receiving that is highly refined and balanced.

 

In the more beginner levels we are learning to discover this balance of giving and receiving. Some of us give too much and need to return within. Some of us hold back too much and being able to express what is stagnant within us helps us to break up that stagnation and help to increase the flow within.

 

However, when we express this with another person we are entering into an energetic exchange with that person. We can only know ourselves from the inside out. How can another know us from the outside in? How will they be able to validate our expression in the way we need? Won't they be in a process of comprehending what we are expressing from their own perspectives?

 

Thus in attaching to the results of this sharing we hold open our wounded gates between internal and external, ever seeking for that perfect reflection of refined external to internal validation. Sometimes we come close, meeting those who reflect some of those needs, but not others. Perhaps a way of thinking of this is like jars of water that have holes poked in them at various places, with hoses coming out. They are all dancing among each other attempting to make a perfect connection that returns the energies they are leaking out. But they can't, as they are all unique and there is no absolutely perfect match. 

 

When we return to ourselves, we seal those leakages. As the pressure builds up we learn to vibrate the places where there is blockages until there greater and greater internal flow. As this process builds, our heavier energies begin to vibrate at higher and higher frequencies as the jing replenishes and transformed to qi, the qi replenishes and transforms to shen, and so on. As we begin to vibrate in these new frequences the same principles of returning to ourselves and being centered are played out within new landscapes of energetic connection. And as we are able to remain centered we begin to understand that more and more we aren't isolated at all, but are breathing in unity with the universe; we are connected with all things everywhere, in harmony.

 

In harmony we focus inwards, because we know that everything is right or wrong from some perspective. We know that external expression might be helpful or might cause dissonance, depending on the circumstances. This can be helpful and is a beautiful part of giving and receiving. But the more we attach to the specifics shapings of what we give or desire, the more we are holding ourselves at this layer of refinement. The more we are able to surrender into the flow of things, the more we heal inwardly and are able to increase our flow and our vibration.

 

There are no secrets, there is simply being whole and flowing with harmony. This often comes with trust and acceptance. When things are conditional, they have a power to change things in specific ways, and this can often create extremes of imbalance. Like if some hundred of those jars form a balanced way of exchanging with each other, and then 5 of them see a way to do something that would increase their power, but only if they keep it secret from the rest, and then that's what happens, but also the balance of the 100 is now lost unless the 95 continue to play along with the desires of the 5, assuming the 5 are not so greedy as to shatter the balance entirely by forcing some of the 95 into making decisions of self preservation or opposition.

 

Even when we make contrived decisions toward guiding others into balanced ways, such as talking about keeping your spiritual practice secret so that you don't impede your spiritual progress, this can create imbalances within the whole. As we begin to understand this principle in a deeper way, we understand that often trust and acceptance of all things as they are without needing to speak up to change things is often the best way to harmony.

 

Here I am simply flowing with what is in front of me, with the intention to say only what I hope will dissolve stagnation and misunderstanding, while recognizing that I cannot truly know what will come of my words and that increasingly I will need to increase my vibration by going more inward and expressing less outwardly.

[Taomeow]

Some things are straightforward.  A teacher may say, "you can share this," "you can teach your own students that," and  then, about something else, "this is between you and me, please don't share" --

this trust should never be violated,  But without such explicit instructions, it depends.

 

I am reading a book titled "Show Your Work!" as we speak.  Has to do with the social media age we live in.  If you want to succeed with a project, especially a fully creative one, you need an audience.  And the author argues that you won't get an audience in this day and age if you don't give them a sneak preview and an idea of who you are and where you get your ideas from.  No one listens to just anyone these days merely because they have something to say, there's too much noise.  I'm only in the beginning with this book, don't have a definite opinion yet.

 

However, I've a facebook "friend" who is a Russian sci-fi author.  Friend of a friend, knew nothing about him, you know how FB "friendships" go.  Was skeptical about his writing because on FB he shares only his political opinions.  So, at some point, in between political rants, he started posting excerpts from the novel he is currently writing.  A couple of pages at a time.  Holy shit.  This is so cool.  So interesting.  I can't wait to find out what happens next.  So I wound up buying his earlier book.  That's what it's about for the author, right?  I bought his earlier book -- it's great, and I wouldn't have known anything about it if he didn't "show his work" in real time.  Now I can't wait for the one he started sharing! 

 

So...  it all depends.  Listen to your heart and listen, as a few already rightfully pointed out here, to your audience's hearts.  And to your teacher's instructions.  The rest is a creative project called your life, and you are the queen of that castle.  (Or king, as the case may be.) 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Taomeow

[redcairo]

I don't know the official rules of whatever religious discipline is in focus. So I can't speak to that.

 

But as a casual self-motivated western mystic of sorts, I can give my perspective on the question. This is just from a "practical" plus experience (both good and bad) angle, not because anybody is telling me so or it's written somewhere, as I don't follow any specific path. (I use a variety of models as tools, off and on, when I feel like it, but that's all.)

 

* Energy has no boundaries, and even speaking or writing it for others exposes and complicates it: the moment anybody else is part of something, you now have your own stuff plus theirs too, intertwined with it. I find often it's best to keep things "close to the vest" as they say and let it be something between you and the divine and the reality you project/interact with. I think this is especially important if whatever you are working on has certain goals, whether they are goals that make a change in you or your habits, or goals such as in business for example where 'success' is a measuring factor. Basically all change is resisted. It's enough work dealing with our own resistance. You don't need to energetically deal with others' too.

 

* Information has different 'time' to development inside us. Let us say you have an experience one evening. Maybe it is something a sensei said, or maybe it is a dream or a meditative experience you had. You will absorb that, unfurl a lot more of it, integrate it, at varying speeds. Just because you understand the topography of it the next morning doesn't mean that the whole thing has worked itself out with you yet. So what you share fairly soon is inherently going to make it something it's not, as if forcing this into verbal communication is actually going to force you to take all that energy, whatever incomplete degree of development it might be, and toss it into cement as fast as you can, into a fixed this-means-that form of logical words. I feel this can interfere with the development within you, and with your own understanding, which may "attempt to come to conclusions and resolution" before things are ready.

 

* Energy is a resource and if you talk out something you may be releasing some of it in that way, rather than keeping it for concrete action or intent.

 

So 1) I don't entangle other peoples' energy, intent or resistance with mine; 2) I give the experiences time to develop and integrate within me, before articulating them, and 3) I focus the energy for effort-X into X and not into talking-about-X.

 

But on the other hand....

 

Once you have something worked out somewhat in your head, it can be good to talk with someone about your ideas, since articulating them may actually cause you to bring the energy into focus, into shape, and that can be good.

 

They may actually contribute to, not harm or merely 'complicate', your energetic direction and path of success.

 

Bringing your emotion into your intent can make a powerful difference, and often it's sharing with someone that brings forth more of that emotion, and enthusiasm, and so on.

 

Not to mention...

 

Nearly every opportunity I have had manifest in my life came through other people. If I had never talked to them about things I was doing, or interested in doing, I would have had no close relationships about topics that really touched me, and I would not have ended up with the many generous gifts -- of time, self, love and sometimes money or other material assistance, that such interactions brought.

 

Also: 

 

There is a thing... I don't know a name for it. But basically it happens when you articulate something to someone else and they hear you; and you know they hear you; it's like a... like a circuit connecting. Win Wenger talks about this but others have as well. It makes a difference in the brain. Most people have to actually talk to a person to do this. Some people, say some inner advisors to me once, can do it in writing if they have a very high awareness of and connection to people in the future reading it, as they do so. I think sometimes that can be a good thing -- perhaps it depends on the situation.

 

Lastly, there are other reasons for recording your experience, which you may or may not choose to share with others, at least at that time.

 

For example, when I'm working on stuff that is new to me, I have severe memory problems. I don't just mean that I can do a meditation, write it down in detail, and then forget I did it. I reread what I wrote and it's still new. I reread what I wrote for the 8th time eventually, knowing that I not only had the experience, and wrote it down, and read it 7 times before, and it is still totally new to me. And then finally I break through whatever kind of memory or denial issues are going on and I start remembering, a little better all the time, until eventually I remember all those experiences, and I remember the new ones also, and it's ok. But if I didn't record them and constantly re-expose myself to them they would be gone to me. 

 

And as a secondary but related thing to the above, for me, documenting my inner life is a great deal of how I validate my experiences, which I'm otherwise prone to forget in denial or dismiss in invalidation if it's not logical. I often intellectually see that I am avoiding a certain topic or energy by the fact that I'm not getting around to recording it. But usually if I record it, I need to share it with at least one person, it forces me to own up to it in a way. 

 

These elements are really a completely different consideration than just the "keep the energy close" for so many good reasons that I was talking about at the top. I have meditations where I'm told not to record certain parts or that afternoon, it's simply not appropriate to share (and these are not anything offbeat, they seem like just another meditation as far as their content, context or experience goes) so I don't, but I assume there is some decent reason my innerself-aspects are telling me that.

 

As far as sharing certain goal-oriented things in particular, all I can say is that I prefer to share things with people who already have the energy in place for what I am doing or feeling. For example if I am working on something for business I would prefer to talk to someone who is successful in business and who expects and welcomes me to be, prior to me talking to anybody about it who may be much closer to me, but who is not evidencing that kind of energy, since I feel the first person might be energetically helpful to me even if nearly a stranger, while the second person might complicate or burden my chance at success no matter how much we love each other.

 

If the topic is more like spiritual development, it's the same theory for me, I would ideally only talk with people who already accept the paradigms I'm working on learning to accept, who already embody the energy I'm working on integrating and embodying. Otherwise I feel like a marathon runner and that person I love but who isn't really there with me spiritually just took off their heavy yoke of doubt and confusion and resistance and dropped it around my neck, and now I have to get down the path for me AND them, because I involved them in it.

 

So... who I share with is selective and what I share -- and when -- is selective. But unless I have a driving need for the documentation, I think it's best to err on the side of quiet. :-)

 

RC