Hillary and Trump

[ralis]

Dear Friends in Dao,

I will say one thing......it's a sad thing to see a once great nation like the USA, beginning to die.

 

Tonight (during the so-called 'debate') is the first time that I've actually heard about America thinking of using nuclear weapons as a tool of first strike.

 

I used to have line from an old King Crimson song taped to my refrigerator "The world I fear, is in the hands of fools."

 

That's how hearing this little piece of "news" made me feel.

 

Your friend in Dao, Differently Abled Daoist

 

Trump has stated to the effect; "if we have nukes, why don't we use them". That is a paraphrased statement which has been fact checked as accurate. He has not ruled out nukes against ISIS. If that happens, then game over.

Edited September 27, 2016 by ralis

[Albion]

As King Crimson sang.........."in the hands of fools"

[liminal_luke]

Thanks for the YouTube link of the debate, Wilfred.  I think Hillary (or perhaps her body double --who knows?) won. 

Edited September 27, 2016 by liminal_luke

[ralis]

Thanks for the YouTube link of the debate, Wilfred.  I just watched and I think Hilllary (or was that her body double?) won the debate.  

 

Trump was rude and kept interrupting. That is the way he treats women, which BTW, has been well documented as to his misogynistic remarks over the years.

[liminal_luke]

Trump was rude and kept interrupting. That is the way he treats women, which BTW, has been well documented as to his misogynistic remarks over the years.

 

Yes, he kind of made it easy for her.  She just had to let him do his thing and then say, in effect...did you hear that folks?

[liminal_luke]

To me, Hillary sounded reasonable and rational.  But, on the other hand, I´m not sure that it matters much. Knowing how to sound good is one thing, what kind of president she might actually be another.  I don´t trust myself to pick the right person on the basis of how good they sound, because I think there´s so much more going on than what I can possibly see.

 

But, yeah,  I could never vote for Trump.  So he makes it easy for me that way.  Perhaps that´s the whole point.

Edited September 27, 2016 by liminal_luke

[ralis]

To me, Hillary sounded reasonable and rational.  But, on the other hand, I´m not sure that it matters much. Knowing how to sound good is one thing, what kind of president she might actually be another.  I don´t trust myself to pick the right person on the basis of how good they sound, because I think there´s so much more going on than what I can possibly see.

 

But, yeah,  I could never vote for Trump.  So he makes it easy for me that way.  Perhaps that´s the whole point.

 

Tough guy talk does not make a statesmen but quite the opposite.

[Karl]

Tough guy talk does not make a statesmen but quite the opposite.

I'm not entirely convinced he wanted to be in his current position. He looks as if he is a man very far out of his comfort zone. I think he does want to make America great, but wasn't really thinking it might be him that would bear that particular burden.

 

Neither of them are exactly bright, pretty much the bottom of the barrel. Trump all bluster, Hillary lacking any substance.

 

Good luck America, your crooked political system has led you to a choice between shit and shite.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Karl

[Marblehead]

Jill Stein got escorted off the premises.

[Brian]

You are wrong given the recent ruling.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-practice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html

 

 

Further, you are not a constitutional lawyer no matter what you believe yourself to be.

 

The question becomes, do you support this unconstitutional policy? What if you were stopped and frisked and put in prison for no reason?

Did you notice the difference between the cases I referenced and the one you did? (Your link is busted, BTW, but I'm familiar with the case...)

[joeblast]

I guess you believe the conspiracy and the allegations. That makes you a Trump supporter?

You've got to be willfully ignorant to somehow believe that the news isnt carrying water for her, dude.  She's cold flat busted on so many things, its only a testament to the sheer magnitude of the corruption in the entire system that she isnt in jail right now.

 

Is Trump illegally diverting money from his charity to his own pocket? If so, then his charity is nothing but a slush fund.

 

Trump directed $2.3 million owed to him to his tax-exempt foundation instead

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-directed-23-million-owed-to-him-to-his-charity-instead/2016/09/26/7a9e9fac-8352-11e6-ac72-a29979381495_story.html?postshare=2761474922583336&tid=ss_tw

Might look a little less than kosher until you juxtapose that with the Clinton Slush Fund...pay to play, documented for folks to see

 

Trump has stated to the effect; "if we have nukes, why don't we use them". That is a paraphrased statement which has been fact checked as accurate. He has not ruled out nukes against ISIS. If that happens, then game over.

 Well, since ISIS is armed, trained, funded and sponsored by US led forces, what does all of this tell you?

 

http://www.ksta.de/politik/interview-mit-al-nusra-kommandeur--die-amerikaner-stehen-auf-unserer-seite--24802176-seite2

 

“Yes, the US supports the opposition [in Syria], but not directly. They support the countries that support us. But we are not yet satisfied with this support,”

 

For those pressed for time, below is a summary of what the Al-Nusra commander said:

• They are directly supported by the US
• They received tanks and other heavy weaponry via Libya and Turkey
• They got officers and experts from the US, Israel, Turkey inside Aleppo
• The commanders of IS are led by Western intelligence
• They are against cease-fires and aid deliveries
• "The U.S. is on our side"

 

We will fight until the regime is toppled," he said, referring to Assad's government. Al-Nusra Front wants "to establish an Islamic state that will be ruled according to the Sharia law. We do not recognize any secular state."

 

The government forces have an advantage because of aircraft and missile launchers, but “we have the American-made TOW missiles, and the situation in some areas is under control,” Al Ezz added.

 

But the most stunning admission came when asked if the TOW missiles were initially intended for Jabhat Al-Nusra or if the group obtained them from the moderate Free Syrian Army, the jihadist clarified: “No, the missiles were given to us directly.”

 

 He also said that when Jabhat Al-Nusra was “besieged, we had officers from Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Israel and America here… Experts in the use of satellites, rockets, reconnaissance and thermal security cameras.”

 

Another dramatic admission: when Todenhöfer asked specifically if the US instructors were really present among the jihadists’ ranks and Al Ezz replied: “The Americans are on our side.”

 

 

 

 

Hillary helped make this a reality, and also-culpable ambassador Stevens was left for dead so that they could try to cover up the fact that they were running weapons into Syria through Turkey, from Libya.

 

 

 

If the FBI was not derelict in their duties, any reasonable prosecutor would have had Hillary behind bars.

 

 

Bash Trump all you want, but at least he is not a globalist lackey and traitor to the American citizenry.

 

 

 

 

So ralis, you still support Hillary despite knowing she fraudulently stole the nomination from Bernie?  (Yet another proven transgression she belongs in jail for....)

Edited September 27, 2016 by joeblast

[ralis]

You've got to be willfully ignorant to somehow believe that the news isnt carrying water for her, dude.  She's cold flat busted on so many things, its only a testament to the sheer magnitude of the corruption in the entire system that she isnt in jail right now.

 

Might look a little less than kosher until you juxtapose that with the Clinton Slush Fund...pay to play, documented for folks to see

 

 Well, since ISIS is armed, trained, funded and sponsored by US led forces, what does all of this tell you?

 

http://www.ksta.de/politik/interview-mit-al-nusra-kommandeur--die-amerikaner-stehen-auf-unserer-seite--24802176-seite2

 

“Yes, the US supports the opposition [in Syria], but not directly. They support the countries that support us. But we are not yet satisfied with this support,”

 

For those pressed for time, below is a summary of what the Al-Nusra commander said:

• They are directly supported by the US
• They received tanks and other heavy weaponry via Libya and Turkey
• They got officers and experts from the US, Israel, Turkey inside Aleppo
• The commanders of IS are led by Western intelligence
• They are against cease-fires and aid deliveries
• "The U.S. is on our side"

 

We will fight until the regime is toppled," he said, referring to Assad's government. Al-Nusra Front wants "to establish an Islamic state that will be ruled according to the Sharia law. We do not recognize any secular state."

 

The government forces have an advantage because of aircraft and missile launchers, but “we have the American-made TOW missiles, and the situation in some areas is under control,” Al Ezz added.

 

But the most stunning admission came when asked if the TOW missiles were initially intended for Jabhat Al-Nusra or if the group obtained them from the moderate Free Syrian Army, the jihadist clarified: “No, the missiles were given to us directly.”

 

 He also said that when Jabhat Al-Nusra was “besieged, we had officers from Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Israel and America here… Experts in the use of satellites, rockets, reconnaissance and thermal security cameras.”

 

Another dramatic admission: when Todenhöfer asked specifically if the US instructors were really present among the jihadists’ ranks and Al Ezz replied: “The Americans are on our side.”

 

 

 

 

Hillary helped make this a reality, and also-culpable ambassador Stevens was left for dead so that they could try to cover up the fact that they were running weapons into Syria through Turkey, from Libya.

 

 

 

If the FBI was not derelict in their duties, any reasonable prosecutor would have had Hillary behind bars.

 

 

Bash Trump all you want, but at least he is not a globalist lackey and traitor to the American citizenry.

Please refrain from the "You've got to be willfully ignorant" BS.

 

 

What you are posting is nothing but unfounded allegations/conspiracy and your distaste for a woman running for president. Further, I guess you don't mind and support Trump who has a fantasy regarding the use of nukes as a first strike capability.

Edited September 27, 2016 by ralis

[joeblast]

*shrugs*  sorry for calling a spade a spade, ralis.  There has been such a mass of data out there that proves the clintons are criminals its not even funny - you have to be WILLFULLY IGNORANT to ignore them.  You have to IGNORE the existence of her felonies and treason and money laundering and electoral fraud, IGNORE all the EVIDENCE of such..

 

Sorry - that is the very definition of WILLFUL IGNORANCE, ralis.

 

But go ahead and keep pretending that she hasnt been caught red handed - that'll make it all just go away, right? 

 

Fantasy....more like yall been trolled by trump again...

 

LOL did I really just go back and reread this and see you try to say I have a problem with a woman running for president????  Seriously???  LMAO...oh, ralis....when you have nothing to hold on to, out with the crazy shit, right? 

 

She's a globalist lackey, a proven traitor and criminal, THAT IS WHY.....what do you have to play the vagina card for?  Nothing of real actual substance to bring up?

[ralis]

*shrugs*  sorry for calling a spade a spade, ralis.  There has been such a mass of data out there that proves the clintons are criminals its not even funny - you have to be WILLFULLY IGNORANT to ignore them.  You have to IGNORE the existence of her felonies and treason and money laundering and electoral fraud, IGNORE all the EVIDENCE of such..

 

Sorry - that is the very definition of WILLFUL IGNORANCE, ralis.

 

But go ahead and keep pretending that she hasnt been caught red handed - that'll make it all just go away, right? 

 

Fantasy....more like yall been trolled by trump again...

 

LOL did I really just go back and reread this and see you try to say I have a problem with a woman running for president????  Seriously???  LMAO...oh, ralis....when you have nothing to hold on to, out with the crazy shit, right? 

 

She's a globalist lackey, a proven traitor and criminal, THAT IS WHY.....what do you have to play the vagina card for?  Nothing of real actual substance to bring up?

 

She has not been indicted in a court of law and therefor she is not guilty as you wish. Only the right wing conspiracy sites are deeming her a criminal.

 

For a supposedly grown adult, your writing style and profuse use of so called colorful language serves no one but yourself.

Edited September 27, 2016 by ralis

[joeblast]

lol dude....the captured legal process here REFUSED to indict her despite OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE...

 

face it man, she's a fkn career criminal.  have you even read anything from wikileaks, or did you just do like you did with the east anglia leaks and close your eyes and ears tightly shut, repeating to yourself "its all false!  there's nothing wrong!  there's nothing at all to see here!!!  I dont even need to SEE this!!!"

 

willful ignorance.  oh. so. very. willful.

[Kar3n]

Please refrain from the "You've got to be willfully ignorant" BS.

 

 

What you are posting is nothing but unfounded allegations/conspiracy and your distaste for a woman running for president. Further, I guess you don't mind and support Trump who has a fantasy regarding the use of nukes as a first strike capability.

 

 

So what does it say about a woman who thinks Hillary should be behind bars, unlike some of her fellow Americans who committed lesser crimes along the same lines and are serving jail time?

 

Not wanting her for President has nothing to do with her being a woman, it has everything to do with her criminal resume that is played down, if not covered up by mainstream media, talking heads, FBI and Justice Department minions and even offices as high as the Oval. Her health issues aside, the piles of conspiracy and proof that she was involved in cover ups of both Benghazi and the email scandal, along with the controversy surrounding the Clinton Foundation, and covering up her husband's sexual assaults on women are enough for me to nix her as a candidate worthy of the power granted by a Presidential term.

 

This woman would love to see a woman in the Oval office, but the likes of Hillary Clinton is not who I would like to see in all of the history books celebrated as the first woman President. She is just not worthy! 

[Karl]

She has not been indicted in a court of law and therefor she is not guilty as you wish. Only the right wing conspiracy sites are deeming her a criminal.

 

For a supposedly grown adult, your writing style and profuse use of so called colorful language serves no one but yourself.

Planet Earth to Ralis....

[ralis]

So what does it say about a woman who thinks Hillary should be behind bars, unlike some of her fellow Americans who committed lesser crimes along the same lines and are serving jail time?

 

Not wanting her for President has nothing to do with her being a woman, it has everything to do with her criminal resume that is played down, if not covered up by mainstream media, talking heads, FBI and Justice Department minions and even offices as high as the Oval. Her health issues aside, the piles of conspiracy and proof that she was involved in cover ups of both Benghazi and the email scandal, along with the controversy surrounding the Clinton Foundation, and covering up her husband's sexual assaults on women are enough for me to nix her as a candidate worthy of the power granted by a Presidential term.

 

This woman would love to see a woman in the Oval office, but the likes of Hillary Clinton is not who I would like to see in all of the history books celebrated as the first woman President. She is just not worthy! 

 

Prove in a court of law that she is a criminal! Otherwise, your narrative is not based on facts but conspiracy and innuendo. If not Hillary, then Trumps fantasy regarding nukes, should give any thinking person frightful pause!

[joeblast]

Prove in a court of law that she is a criminal! Otherwise, your narrative is not based on facts but conspiracy and innuendo. If not Hillary, then Trumps fantasy regarding nukes, should give any thinking person frightful pause!

Its a pity to see you put yourself in a position of having to close your eyes tightly shut to reality in order to keep pushing your position.

 

Here we have a few examples of new data coming to light that should give any thinking person pause, but you're denying it all without a shred of proof and can only rest back upon Comey being utterly derelict in his duties as evidence she's not a total crook?  the lulz keep coming...

 

What's the matter, afraid they'll suspend your account at DU if you fess up to reality over here?  You can still participate in the sewing circle fantasy of a clean Clinton over there if you like, but here you're going to get called out on it.

[ralis]

The last time I looked, one is supposedly innocent until proven guilty in this country, except, for the dilettantes here on this thread who get a charge out of  playing judge, jury and executioner!

 

Trump is the 'law and order' presidential candidate who wants 'stop and frisk' and toys with the powerful fantasy as to what the possibilities are with nukes. If nukes are used, then the game is over!!!

[Kar3n]

MODERATION NOTICE

 

Let's keep not call names and make things personal here guys.

This is a long running thread and some pretty passionate ideas are at play here, please remember

TDB insult and personal attack policies when posting.

I see no need to call anyone out here, but if the shoe fits...

 

***

[ralis]

Its a pity to see you put yourself in a position of having to close your eyes tightly shut to reality in order to keep pushing your position.

 

Here we have a few examples of new data coming to light that should give any thinking person pause, but you're denying it all without a shred of proof and can only rest back upon Comey being utterly derelict in his duties as evidence she's not a total crook?  the lulz keep coming...

 

What's the matter, afraid they'll suspend your account at DU if you fess up to reality over here?  You can still participate in the sewing circle fantasy of a clean Clinton over there if you like, but here you're going to get called out on it.

 

You really underestimate my intelligence and critical analysis.  Stop your condescending bantering to anyone in disagreement!

 

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,

But in ourselves, that we are underlings."

[ralis]

Its a pity to see you put yourself in a position of having to close your eyes tightly shut to reality in order to keep pushing your position.

 

Here we have a few examples of new data coming to light that should give any thinking person pause, but you're denying it all without a shred of proof and can only rest back upon Comey being utterly derelict in his duties as evidence she's not a total crook?  the lulz keep coming...

 

What's the matter, afraid they'll suspend your account at DU if you fess up to reality over here?  You can still participate in the sewing circle fantasy of a clean Clinton over there if you like, but here you're going to get called out on it.

 

I don't have an account on that site.

[joeblast]

oh spades, what are they if one cannot call them spades?

 

it tends to put a damper on discussions regarding spades.

 

apparently ralis is butthurt about being called out on believing the candidates lies and ignoring all the leaks that the candidate keeps trying to assert are false, despite being right there for all to see.

 

so in this debate we had

 

-no questions about benghazi

-no questions about the clinton foundation

-no attempts to fact check clinton

 

 

I'm not underestimating your critical analysis, ralis - I'm calling it complete bullshit that relies entirely on ignoring the million reasons she should not be on that podium.  

 

or perhaps you think the just-us system is actually a justice system

 

oh, the hay that would have been made if it was a republican who helped run those guns in libya

oh, the hey that would have been made if it was a republican whose email chain goes straight back up to george soros

oh, the hay that would have been made if it was a republican who had the paper trail of pay to play sitting all right there.

 

 

 

These are not some "unfounded allegations" ralis - these are from THEIR OWN EMAIL TRAIN.

 

What's so hard to understand about that?

 

What so hard to understand about them being cold flat busted?

 

Why are you supporting electoral fraud by lending any support to clinton at all?  By supporting her you are de facto supporting the perversion of our electoral process.

 

Why do you hate america, ralis?!?!    (ok, that last one was joking )

[ralis]

A cut/paste for expedience sake.

 

 

Cassius:

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,

But in ourselves, that we are underlings."

Julius Caesar (I, ii, 140-141)

Cassius, a nobleman, is speaking with his friend, Brutus, and trying to persuade him that, in the best interests of the public, Julius Caesar must be stopped from becoming monarch of Rome. Brutus is aware of Caesar's intentions, and is torn between his love of his friend Caesar and his duty to the republic. Cassius continues by reminding Brutus that Caesar is just a man, not a god, and that they are equal men to Caesar. They were all born equally free, and so why would they suddenly have to bow to another man? On another level this phrase has been interpreted to mean that fate is not what drives men to their decisions and actions, but rather the human condition.