Hillary and Trump

[ralis]

oh spades, what are they if one cannot call them spades?

 

it tends to put a damper on discussions regarding spades.

 

apparently ralis is butthurt about being called out on believing the candidates lies and ignoring all the leaks that the candidate keeps trying to assert are false, despite being right there for all to see.

 

so in this debate we had

 

-no questions about benghazi

-no questions about the clinton foundation

-no attempts to fact check clinton

 

 

I'm not underestimating your critical analysis, ralis - I'm calling it complete bullshit that relies entirely on ignoring the million reasons she should not be on that podium.  

 

or perhaps you think the just-us system is actually a justice system

 

oh, the hay that would have been made if it was a republican who helped run those guns in libya

oh, the hey that would have been made if it was a republican whose email chain goes straight back up to george soros

oh, the hay that would have been made if it was a republican who had the paper trail of pay to play sitting all right there.

 

 

 

These are not some "unfounded allegations" ralis - these are from THEIR OWN EMAIL TRAIN.

 

What's so hard to understand about that?

 

What so hard to understand about them being cold flat busted?

 

Why are you supporting electoral fraud by lending any support to clinton at all?  By supporting her you are de facto supporting the perversion of our electoral process.

 

Why do you hate america, ralis?!?!    (ok, that last one was joking )

 

I don't hate this country in the least. I served 5.5 years during Vietnam. Did you ever serve? Or afraid to?

 

Hillary was never found guilty for Benghazi and yet no one discusses the Benghazi's that happened during the Bush years.

Edited September 27, 2016 by ralis

[joeblast]

lol....address the one point I was joking about  *golf claps*

 

"found guilty" tends to be problematic where it is a matter of the fox investigating what happened at the hen house.  (what's next, you're going to try asserting that the former AG did his job, too?)

 

bush is a deflection, we all know the bushes are a warmongering crime family just like the clintons.

 

you still havent told us why you think wikileaks is false.

[bax44]

Whens the last time the choice WASNT between shit and shite, Karl? Our constipated efforts at talking talking talking this stuff out has ultimately led...nowhere, except for the end result of gathering even more tension in our bodies and minds. As I said in four years they will march two more robots out in front of us all and we will pretend we ever had any choice in the matter and that our voice and our vote mean something critically important, along with our precious (vomit) Opinions about it all... its a stage and we are the ones being played, our real lives right in front of us being the most important things, not these fake actors. Just look at this thread..43 pages of opinions and platitudes and nothingness, time is the thing they steal from you, and they are excellent at it apparently. because the decree from on high is that "politics" is something for worshipping, and we are very obedient and willing worshippers.

[ralis]

lol....address the one point I was joking about  *golf claps*

 

"found guilty" tends to be problematic where it is a matter of the fox investigating what happened at the hen house.  (what's next, you're going to try asserting that the former AG did his job, too?)

 

bush is a deflection, we all know the bushes are a warmongering crime family just like the clintons.

 

you still havent told us why you think wikileaks is false.

 

It remains futile that any reasonable discourse is futile when one's mind is absolutely fixed on a certain outcome. Not one person including you has discussed Trump's fantasy of using nukes as a first strike. Trump's rhetoric is such that his idea of being a unitary executive gives him ultimate power.

[Kar3n]

Prove in a court of law that she is a criminal! Otherwise, your narrative is not based on facts but conspiracy and innuendo. If not Hillary, then Trumps fantasy regarding nukes, should give any thinking person frightful pause!

There evidence is there for indictments, our system is so corrupt, all the way up to the White House, and hell bent on protecting Hillary that it will never happen. If there was no crime then why are immunity deals for her staffers being handed out like candy on Halloween? Look at Petraeus, are Hillary's handling of classified documents not along the same lines, but of a greater magnitude? Petraeus was not a presidential candidate and did not have the future of the Democratic party in his pocket, therein lies the difference.

 

If you are assuming that my disdain for Hillary is in support of Trump, you are sorely mistaken. I would rather write in my dog's on the ballot than vote for either of them. That being said, I am still undecided, but I can assure you that I will not be drawing any lines next to Mrs. Clinton's bid for the Presidency.

[joeblast]

ralis....I guess it does remain futile so long as you're willing to vote for a proven criminal.  I dont care that the Just-Us™ System has not saw fit to put her behind bars yet since it thinks that it maintains more control over the country than it really does.  Her email chains show that she's a criminal and not in just one or two or three ways.

 

You're worried about whether the donald will nuke our own troops as they sit next to ISIS soldiers, when Hillary is one of the ones that is responsible for the creation of ISIS to begin with.  (and please dont do something as silly as try to deny that ISIS was armed, trained, and funded by the US, and hilllary has supported all of the endeavors that helped give rise to the creation of ciaISIS.)

 

It doesnt help when you simply ignore anything that doesnt fit in with the MSM-Hillary-narrative,  man.

 

Fact of the matter is, I'm  not worried about trump nuking ISIS.   I'd be far more worried about Hillary trying to start WW3 with russia than go all crazy over trump mocking attack strategies.

[ralis]

There evidence is there for indictments, our system is so corrupt, all the way up to the White House, and hell bent on protecting Hillary that it will never happen. If there was no crime then why are immunity deals for her staffers being handed out like candy on Halloween? Look at Petraeus, are Hillary's handling of classified documents not along the same lines, but of a greater magnitude? Petraeus was not a presidential candidate and did not have the future of the Democratic party in his pocket, therein lies the difference.

 

If you are assuming that my disdain for Hillary is in support of Trump, you are sorely mistaken. I would rather write in my dog's on the ballot than vote for either of them. That being said, I am still undecided, but I can assure you that I will not be drawing any lines next to Mrs. Clinton's bid for the Presidency.

 

Have you considered Trump's fantasy with nukes as a first strike? I doubt you have or understand the reality of such. His speech has consequences and yet most have no concept of what that means.

[joeblast]

Whens the last time the choice WASNT between shit and shite, Karl? Our constipated efforts at talking talking talking this stuff out has ultimately led...nowhere, except for the end result of gathering even more tension in our bodies and minds. As I said in four years they will march two more robots out in front of us all and we will pretend we ever had any choice in the matter and that our voice and our vote mean something critically important, along with our precious (vomit) Opinions about it all... its a stage and we are the ones being played, our real lives right in front of us being the most important things, not these fake actors. Just look at this thread..43 pages of opinions and platitudes and nothingness, time is the thing they steal from you, and they are excellent at it apparently. because the decree from on high is that "politics" is something for worshipping, and we are very obedient and willing worshippers.

since trump does not appear to be part of the globalist insider crew.....this time it actually seems that there can be a "status quo rejection" vote.  not that trump is a sure shot, he knows how to shoot his mouth off but he knows the difference between getting people all riled up (first strike nuking ciaISIS) and saying things that would get him ushered off the stage (911, fed res)

[ralis]

ralis....I guess it does remain futile so long as you're willing to vote for a proven criminal.  I dont care that the Just-Us™ System has not saw fit to put her behind bars yet since it thinks that it maintains more control over the country than it really does.  Her email chains show that she's a criminal and not in just one or two or three ways.

 

You're worried about whether the donald will nuke our own troops as they sit next to ISIS soldiers, when Hillary is one of the ones that is responsible for the creation of ISIS to begin with.  (and please dont do something as silly as try to deny that ISIS was armed, trained, and funded by the US, and hilllary has supported all of the endeavors that helped give rise to the creation of ciaISIS.)

 

It doesnt help when you simply ignore anything that doesnt fit in with the MSM-Hillary-narrative,  man.

 

Fact of the matter is, I'm  not worried about trump nuking ISIS.   I'd be far more worried about Hillary trying to start WW3 with russia than go all crazy over trump mocking attack strategies.

 

Who said I was voting for her. Bad move on your part. FYI, one nuke anywhere on this planet and the game is over which is far too much for most to understand. That is a 'game theory' scenario.

[joeblast]

lol..... pardon my interpreting a sickeningly staunch defending as supporting and vote intending - you're just batting so hard for her, I figured that you had to be supporting her, ya know, since you basically ignored all of her transgressions. 

 

I mean, you believe the idiocy of trump just sending nukes all over...

Edited September 27, 2016 by joeblast

[Kar3n]

Have you considered Trump's fantasy with nukes as a first strike? I doubt you have or understand the reality of such. His speech has consequences and yet most have no concept of what that means.

 

I understand that they are both idiots, and have not fully thought out the consequences of their proposed or current actions and activities, criminal or not.

 

Your comments in relation to my understanding of what the reality of a nuclear strike anywhere in the world would mean are quite belittling of my intelligence, Mr. rails. Let's not make this personal.

[ralis]

I understand that they are both idiots, and have not fully thought out the consequences of their proposed or current actions and activities, criminal or not.

 

Your comments in relation to my understanding of what the reality of a nuclear strike anywhere in the world would mean are quite belittling of my intelligence, Mr. rails. Let's not make this personal.

 

Did you grow up during the cold war and have to hunker down under your desk for nuclear war drills? I did and I take what any presidential candidate states in this regard very seriously! None of us really understand the horror of such a scenario except the few that survived Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

[bax44]

Always funny to me the horror and fear the US citizens have been filled with regarding nuclear weapons. Reason being as far as Im aware we are the only ones to ever have used said weapons to blow the living hell out of another country. interesting dichotomy there.

Edited September 27, 2016 by bax44

[wilfred]

the reason clinton isn't in jail is the same reason no bankers went to prison following the 08 crisis (on the contrary they were bailed out) despite the subsequent cases of fraud that keep hatching out (LIBOR etc) - it's called selective application of the law, to perpetuate a rigged, deeply corrupt system. the racket is so utterly fragile that holding things to account to any integrity would collapse the whole thing. trump alluded to this in the debate when he said it's a bubble and that the zero interest rate policy is propping up the market. it's going to end badly, whichever way you slice it. the longer this goes on the worse the fallout will be for the average american. you can only export inflation to china for so long...

 

so the recovery is a bunch of BS based on printed money trickling down from the financial elite. none of the underlying imbalances that caused it (made possible by over-financialization, debt) have been addressed. it's ironic clinton accused trump of his own style of trickle down as both obama and herself are wall street candidates through and through.

Edited September 27, 2016 by wilfred

[ralis]

It amazes me as to how the issue of nukes is being brushed aside here as if it weren't a serious issue. During the October 1973 Israeli/Syrian/Egyptian war, Gold Meir threatened to use nukes to win the conflict. Why? The Israeli's were running out of ammo and were going to lose big time. An armored column of 8,000 Israeli commandos had surrounded 80,000 Egyptian troops on the Sinai peninsula and threatened to kill them all and they would have. I was being sent to Tel Aviv along with the rest of my entire base to shore up the Israeli and US defense lines against the Russians that were making incursions in the region. Most don't have a clue as to how close the world was to a nuclear holocaust. Fortunately, the US resupplied the Israeli's which ended the conflict.

[ralis]

Always funny to me the horror and fear the US citizens have been filled with regarding nuclear weapons. Reason being as far as Im aware we are the only ones to ever have used said weapons to blow the living hell out of another country. interesting dichotomy there.

 

You didn't grow up during the cold war and that fear is very difficult to get rid of, if ever.

[bax44]

Just one of the many multitudes of fears that have been programmed in that Im sure are very difficult to get rid of-but nonetheless I have to question how "real" these are.

Edited September 27, 2016 by bax44

[ralis]

Just one of the many multitudes of fears that have been programmed in that Im sure are very difficult to get rid of-but nonetheless I have to question how "real" these are.

 

I was a child at the time and had very little facility to deal with such a scenario. Whether it was real or not is beside the point.

[bax44]

Well reality is the point. I have no doubt at the time it probably seemed like a horrific thing-but in reality- the only nuclear weapons ever used were by the ones who were telling you to be horribly afraid of them. Just something to think about.

[Kar3n]

Did you grow up during the cold war and have to hunker down under your desk for nuclear war drills? I did and I take what any presidential candidate states in this regard very seriously! None of us really understand the horror of such a scenario except the few that survived Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

 

I did do drills in school, so you can take your assertions that I have no understanding of what the reality of such rhetoric is off the table.

 

The potential for nuclear strikes/war is out there, nuclear weapons are in the hands of some of our country's enemies, but are we all running to bomb shelters and hiding under our desks? No, no we are not. Living in fear and being an alarmists are choices that I choose not to partake in.

 

Reality is reality, I nor you can change it with a singular vote for either party.

[ralis]

I did do drills in school, so you can take your assertions that I have no understanding of what the reality of such rhetoric is off the table.

 

The potential for nuclear strikes/war is out there, nuclear weapons are in the hands of some of our countries enemies, but are we all running to bomb shelters and hiding under our desks? No, no we are not. Living in fear and being an alarmists are choices that I choose not to partake in.

 

Reality is reality, I nor you can change it with a singular vote for either party.

I was just asking the question given that I don't know your age. I am being a realist regarding Trumps rhetoric which has no place in this.

[Karl]

Whens the last time the choice WASNT between shit and shite, Karl? Our constipated efforts at talking talking talking this stuff out has ultimately led...nowhere, except for the end result of gathering even more tension in our bodies and minds. As I said in four years they will march two more robots out in front of us all and we will pretend we ever had any choice in the matter and that our voice and our vote mean something critically important, along with our precious (vomit) Opinions about it all... its a stage and we are the ones being played, our real lives right in front of us being the most important things, not these fake actors. Just look at this thread..43 pages of opinions and platitudes and nothingness, time is the thing they steal from you, and they are excellent at it apparently. because the decree from on high is that "politics" is something for worshipping, and we are very obedient and willing worshippers.

I cannot but completely agree with that sentiment.

[ralis]

Words matter and one must understand the gravity of such as to the effect on other governments across the planet.

[Karl]

I was a child at the time and had very little facility to deal with such a scenario. Whether it was real or not is beside the point.

To put it Monty Pythonesque - luxury. We had that, plus over flights of soviet bombers and close encounters with soviet subs. In the 1960s the Second World War was in recent memory, I played on bomb sites as a young boy. We did get bombed, we do have a living memory handed down from our mothers and fathers. Nuclear war was another kind of blitz. We had already seen V1 and V2s are understood the danger of ICBMs because the huge areas of broken masonry made it real. Then we had the IRA. We had major bombings and lived with terrorism for years, it wasn't just London, it could and did happen everywhere.

[Marblehead]

 Let's not make this personal.

It's just so damn hard to not get personal when talking about politics.