Hillary and Trump

[blackstar212]

yeah, and his rationale was "pay to play"...."I'm a businessman, and when I want a politician to do something..."

 

now, its a matter of whether or not one believes that trump will take his knowledge of the perversions and attempt to rectify them, or as some assert he'd merely use it to pad his already massive pockets.

 

 the government has assumed all kinds of powers that were not delegated by the constitution - somehow you're surprised that they can continue operating extrajudicially and arrange scenarios to their liking?  now that, does not logically follow

 

that's why I said earlier on, if trump did anything that attacked the REAL roots of the problems in the system, they'll have  a jack ruby team assembled, pronto.  if he tries to do something like take back the production of money from the banks and institute debt free money for the populace, he's as good as dead, they will kill him and wont care how blatantly its done, because racism or something stupid.

I am not surprised at all. I assert Trump will pad his bank account. IF he should win we will go from a plutocracy and start to head into an oligarchy. He is a wise businessman and there is more pie for the serious players if you start to weed out some of the competition that is safe to weed out.

 

An oligarchy will not come overnight but he will be instrumental in helping usher this in.

 

I still do not believe he will be POTUS but is merely helping his friend Hillary.

[joeblast]

Already an oligarchy bro! 

 

 

https://ellenbrown.com/2015/04/06/how-america-became-an-oligarchy/

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

 

http://www.amazon.com/All-Presidents-Bankers-Alliances-American/dp/156858749X

 

I think Trump has padded his pockets enough, and his competitive and at times cutthroat business man nature indicates that he's not in anyone's pockets.  He knows how business operates, he knows where and how government has been able to aid big business and hold up the small business.  He's hinted that he knows what a screw job the federal reserve system is (but of course that's something one cant say too much of, like 911, you can listen to his old interview talking about its construction and there's no way an aluminum plane wing would tear a wiley coyote hole in the side of this thing...but he shut up too much further about it, because he saw which way the climate blew on that, and how it blew...)

 

Whether that translates to him doing anything to slow the MIC, or take on the banks in a meaningful fashion, destroy the patriot act or crush the cia into a thousand pieces....is anyone's guess.  I dont think he can do much of things like that without risking assassination by the banksters, honestly. 

[liminal_luke]

Tecate beer pokes fun at Trump

 

[blackstar212]

Already an oligarchy bro! 

 

 

https://ellenbrown.com/2015/04/06/how-america-became-an-oligarchy/

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

 

http://www.amazon.com/All-Presidents-Bankers-Alliances-American/dp/156858749X

 

I think Trump has padded his pockets enough, and his competitive and at times cutthroat business man nature indicates that he's not in anyone's pockets.  He knows how business operates, he knows where and how government has been able to aid big business and hold up the small business.  He's hinted that he knows what a screw job the federal reserve system is (but of course that's something one cant say too much of, like 911, you can listen to his old interview talking about its construction and there's no way an aluminum plane wing would tear a wiley coyote hole in the side of this thing...but he shut up too much further about it, because he saw which way the climate blew on that, and how it blew...)

 

Whether that translates to him doing anything to slow the MIC, or take on the banks in a meaningful fashion, destroy the patriot act or crush the cia into a thousand pieces....is anyone's guess.  I dont think he can do much of things like that without risking assassination by the banksters, honestly.

ol·i·gar·chy

 

 

/ˈäləˌɡärkē/

 

 

noun

 

noun: oligarchy; plural noun: oligarchies

 

 

 

 

a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution.

 

 

plu·toc·ra·cy

 

 

/plo͞oˈtäkrəsē/

 

 

noun

 

noun: plutocracy

 

 

 

 

government by the wealthy.

 

 

 

•a country or society governed by the wealthy.

 

 

Right now we are the government by the wealthy and not a small group but a larger group which I believe will be whittled down to an oligarchy. Trump is just the type of guy to do that.

[joeblast]

havent seen convincing evidence of that, but that's one of the things that the news is trying to make a lot of people conclude, so *shrugs*

[Karl]

Good piece courtesy of ZH and it says it all really (exactly what people in the UK felt during the Brexit referendum). Even now we are receiving platitudes from our new PM about ' reporting the number of immigrants working in companies' and creating a shame list WTF ! Brexit wasn't about immigration, it was about the growing disparity between one group and another after promises that things would get better, they got and are getting significantly worse.

 

Listened To A Trump Supporter... Now I Understand"

 

Tyler Durden's picture

by Tyler Durden

Oct 6, 2016 9:14 AM

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Submitted by Mike Krieger via Liberty Bltizkrieg blog,

 

The following article by David A Hill Jr is simply outstanding.

 

Here are some powerful excerpts from the piece: I Listened to a Trump Supporter

 

I talked at length with a Trump supporter I grew up around. I wanted to understand. I respected her growing up. I wanted to know why a person as kind and compassionate as I remember her is voting for someone like Donald Trump.

 

She was a family friend, a good person. In rural Ohio, everything was tight. Money, jobs. If you really needed quick cash, she’d put you to work doing landscaping. She’d pay fairly and reliably for the area.

 

She’s voting for Donald Trump. I disagree with her choice, but I understand why she rejects Clinton so fiercely, and why she’s been swept up in Donald Trump’s particular brand of right-wing populism. I feel that on the left, it’s increasingly easy to ignore these people, to disregard them, to write them off as racists, bigots, or uneducated. I think that’s a loss for everyone involved, and that sometimes listening can help you to at least understand why a person is making the choices they make, so you can work on the root causes. For her, the root cause isn’t racism. In fact, I remember her as one of the only people in the area who proudly hired black workers, in a place where that was a huge issue. She fought over that choice.

 

But that’s enough background. Let me relay a bit of what she told me.

 

She’s a person who built her business from the ground up. She wasn’t rich, but was very comfortable for the area. She had a nice house, a nice car, and was stable. She achieved the American dream of not having to struggle. Things changed during the housing crisis. A landscaping business requires customers who need landscaping, and people who don’t own homes just don’t need landscaping. In some of these neighborhoods, one in five people lost their homes. That almost immediately turns a successful landscaping business into a struggling one.

 

Then there was a domino effect. She couldn’t pay for her lawn-care equipment leases and loans. That hurt her work efficiency. Then, she lost her car. But that didn’t stop the payments. Then, she lost her house. She slowly had to let go all of her employees, until it was just her, hand-mowing lawns for cash the way you might expect a high school student in the summertime.

 

She told me that every week, it seemed there was another default letter, another foreclosure, another bank demanding more blood from her dry veins. To her, that pile of default notices and demands for payment looked suspiciously similar to Hillary Clinton’s top donor list.

 

She lost everything she worked so hard for. Obama swore he was going to help. The Wall Street bailout did seem to help Wall Street. But it did absolutely nothing for her. She turns on the news and sees how the Dow Jones is doing better than ever. But that didn’t bring her house and livelihood back. Liberals insist that Obama’s made her life better. But, now she’s driving a car that falls apart randomly while having to pay those same banks for a car she doesn’t own and never will. It’s difficult to convince someone whose life is objectively worse that their life is better. And it’s disingenuous to try. You can break down the specifics, sure. But when someone’s hungry, and you’re busy silencing their complaints by telling them how well world hunger is improving, you’re just going to upset them.

 

This is not a person who is stupid or racist. She knows Bush caused the economy collapse with his irresponsible tax policies and wars. But she saw liberals as fighting for the banks’ recovery, to hell with her needs. She sees in Hillary someone who celebrates that approach. Who measures US success by the success of multinational mega corporations?—?corporations who undercut and destroy local businesses. This is a person who grew up in a town with a friendly neighborhood general store, a locally-owned hardware store, farmers’ markets, florists, and auto shops. All of these businesses closed when Walmart moved into town. All their owners now work at that Walmart for a fraction of their previous wages, no benefits, and no hope for something better, something of their own. And now, she sees a free trade supporting former Walmart executive about to come in to office, and it feels like salt in her community’s wounds.

 

This is a wounded person. Insulting her or continuing to hurt her isn’t going to help. She’s swept up in Trump’s message because she feels someone’s finally listening. Right-wing populism is an awful thing. But desperate people with their backs against the wall will grasp on to whatever they feel will bring a change. Neoliberal capitalism is not sustainable for these people.

 

Over the past few years, she tried getting back in her business. But a corporation moved in and is operating far cheaper, using undocumented immigrant labor. I should note: She specifically said she doesn’t hold it against the migrant workers. As she said, “They’ve got to take whatever jobs they can get. Just like we do. It’s not their fault. They didn’t choose to make prices so low that legal businesses couldn’t compete.” She was literally a “job creator”. And she wasbeing priced out by the very people Donald Trump insists are pricing her out. That hurts everyone, and it adds an air of authenticity to what he says.

 

I asked her if she supports Trump’s Mexico wall. She told me, “It doesn’t matter if I do. Hillary wants a wall, too. That wall’s gonna happen.” She wasn’t simply making this up. She’s heard this from many sources, Clinton being one of them. So to her, the idea of a border wall is a non-issue. I pressed her on the issue, and she said she thinks, “It’s a waste of money. If someone wants to cross the border, they’re gonna cross the border.”…

 

A few times, she seemed ashamed of things Trump’s said or done. I’d ask her to unpack her feelings. She said he sometimes upsets her, but “If you wait and wait for a flawless candidate, you’ll never find one.” She said she’d be much prouder to vote for Trump if he’d tone down his rhetoric.

This fits into my strongly held belief that people are looking for an excuse to vote for Trump. All he has to do to win is tone down some of his more heinous and idiotic tendencies.

 

I talked to her a bit about Bernie Sanders, to see what she thought of him. She told me, “He seemed like a nice enough guy. But I didn’t pay him much mind because there was no way he was gonna beat Clinton.” I talked with her about his platform, his policy proposals. She lit up. She told me, “It’s a real shame he didn’t make it.” She told me that if she knew him, his record, and his proposals, she’d have voted for him. I said that since the primary concluded, Hillary’s shifted some to adopt policies similar to his, and I asked if that changed her mind. She told me, “It doesn’t matter what she says. It matters what she’s done.”

 

No amount of insulting her from an ivory tower is going to change her mind. No amount of guffawing about her lack of education, her self-deception, her racism, or her internalized misogyny is going to change her mind. The only thing she’ll listen to is a promise of real change to the system that’s hurt her. If the Democratic Party can’t offer her a viable alternative, we’re going to see another neck-and-neck election in 2020, and in 2024, and in 2028.

 

These people need a populist answer. They need someone willing to listen to their very real concerns, and offer solutions that don’t look like Band-Aids on bullet wounds. If they had that on the left, we wouldn’t even be discussing Ohio as a “swing state”.

 

Right now, this is the discourse we’re seeing about Trump supporters. This only emboldens those attitudes. To people like her, this feels like the left is laughing at her for her unwillingness to get in line and support the things that have left her broke and broken.

The above excerpts are not the entire piece. You should read the whole thing: I Listened to a Trump Supporter.

 

The more deeply I think about this election, the more I agree that the above sentiments motivate Trump voters far more than feelings of racism or hate. As I noted in a piece published a few weeks ago, The Status Quo vs. Donald Trump:

 

This isn’t about me. This is about the American voter, and the more time passes, the more I understand the motivations of the vast majority of Trump supporters. It isn’t xenophobia or racism, it’s a vote against the status quo and the way they’ve strip mined and destroyed this country. It’s a FU vote and a major gamble, but it’s not as irrational or hateful as you might think.

This doesn’t mean that Trump won’t betray his supporters and prove to be the Republican version of Barack Obama, but it does mean that the dominant media narrative characterizing Trump supporters as a bunch of racist, uneducated brutes is pretty much just dishonest, elitist propaganda.

[wilfred]

hillary is a total fraud, pretty much everything she does is fake or a lie

 

[wilfred]

new e-mail leaks, no media conspiracy you say?

 

new york times and get this...john oliver (that 'witty' guy most progressives get their opinions from) caught colluding with the clinton campaign

 

just around the time his show went full SJW and started shilling for clinton.

 

[Aetherous]

Well, Trump's "locker room" comments about women from 2005 were a step too far. His lack of integrity has lost him at least one vote.

[ralis]

Well, Trump's "locker room" comments about women from 2005 were a step too far. His lack of integrity has lost him at least one vote.

I have heard the audio and see if I can post it. No integrity whatsoever! Downright appalling!

Edited October 8, 2016 by ralis

[Karl]

Sounds like a guy who knows what he wants and goes after it. What do you mean by 'no integrity' ? I'm sure he does, or at least used to, do exactly what he said he did.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Karl

[Kar3n]

Politicians don't have integrity; hilarious!!! Don't you guys watch the news?

[Jonesboy]

Edit

Edited October 8, 2016 by Jonesboy

[Aetherous]

I'm sure he does, or at least used to, do exactly what he said he did.

 

I'm sure of that, as well.

 

...

President of the US is supposed to be a kind of sacred office. Because I don't want to argue that statement: in my opinion.

 

Not all men speak like he did...much less do the things he did (while married, take advantage of his position of power by "grabbing pussies" of other married women). A time span of a decade can change people, but intuition tells me that he has not truly changed despite his apology today.

 

Sure, all politicians are more or less corrupt and lacking in integrity. Bill Clinton did worse, and Hillary has protected him regarding it. I'm not voting for her, and don't care if she wins.

 

It'd be great if Trump would just withdraw after this, so someone more competent could take his place.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Aetherous

[Karl]

Find me a fully moral man or woman and I will show you someone who has no need of power.

 

The fact is, the action of seeking power is the action of the corrupt, unless they seek power to destroy it.

[Karl]

Politicians don't have integrity; hilarious!!! Don't you guys watch the news?

Hope springs eternal in the hearts of fools.

[Aetherous]

Find me a fully moral man or woman and I will show you someone who has no need of power.

 

The fact is, the action of seeking power is the action of the corrupt, unless they seek power to destroy it.

 

Fully agree.

 

The fact is: literally no one alive or dead is perfect.

 

Still, there is better and worse. There is such thing as a step over the line.

[Karl]

Fully agree.

The fact is: literally no one alive or dead is perfect.

Still, there is better and worse. There is such thing as a step over the line.

That's why the USA was born as a country of laws and not a country of men. However, only if the laws protect the rights of men can they be just laws.

 

Choosing between bad and worse really is a negative sum game, it's like a bit of murder or a lot more murder. If you are a victim in both cases then you have a problem.

[zerostao]

if only the clintons could claim the moral high ground after this latest trump revelation. there should be no surprise that trump holds these attitudes. if you are shocked and appalled now, then you were obviously never paying attention before. at least there are no rumors of murder surrounding trump

 

 

edit> if a few more votes stray towards gary or jill would be cool imo

Edited October 8, 2016 by zerostao

[Karl]

In the weird world of film and media, prostituting oneself in the hope of gaining favour is common amongst both men and women. Politicians live in the same world as media and entertainment and I expect the number of tapes hidden in safes are almost too many to count. However, if you are in the entertainment business then this kind of thing is likely as common as getting drunk-it's only when the dirty washing gets aired during an election attempt that it becomes damaging. Long term politicians take far greater care to ensure they don't get caught- which sums up Bill Clinton and Hillary-that they are either too dumb, or hardly concern themselves with getting caught.

[Aetherous]

there should be no surprise that trump holds these attitudes. if you are shocked and appalled now, then you were obviously never paying attention before

 

I was not under the impression he was cheating on his current wife, attempting to do it with other married women, taking advantage of his position of (relative) power. I can see how one would assume that about him before, given his attitude and comments sometimes...but I don't think this info was out there.

[zerostao]

I was not under the impression he was cheating on his current wife, attempting to do it with other married women, taking advantage of his position of (relative) power. I can see how one would assume that about him before, given his attitude and comments sometimes...but I don't think this info was out there.

you probably missed trumps remark during the 90's (those golden clinton years) when trump said sth to the effect of: if i were president, at least we would have super model bimbos in the white house and not these ugly ones like bill has

edit>>you didnt think trump would use a position of power for his personal benefit? really?

Edited October 8, 2016 by zerostao

[Aetherous]

you probably missed trumps remark during the 90's (those golden clinton years) when trump said sth to the effect of: if i were president, at least we would have super model bimbos in the white house and not these ugly ones like bill has

 

I did miss that remark, although it's not nearly as significant as this. Such a remark, I would expect from him, and it wouldn't have changed my mind about voting for him.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Aetherous

[bax44]

Appalling! How dare he talk about grabbing cooch on tape! Lets face it, this is what our culture is. These sick news broadcasters casting judgement on someone for something they said ten years ago, while in the next segment will show you someones head getting chopped off and then they will analyze a football players twitter feed. Someone above said the presidency is supposed to be a "sacred" office. Srry to inform you, but that went out the window about 100 years ago. Wed  be far better off if at least as a majority were honest with ourselves and admitted deep down we get off on Things like Trumps comments-Im more disgusted by the ones who are "appaled" by him and then out of the other corner of their mouth will use slogans and platitudes to pretend its ok to send another 18 year old to a foreign country to get his legs blown off for our precious "country"..errr oil.

Edited October 8, 2016 by bax44

[Aetherous]

Lets face it, this is what our culture is.

 

If that's what your culture is, then feel free to vote for him. It's not my culture.