Hillary and Trump

[Wells]

.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Wells

[dust]

started out ok but crash and burn by the end...soon as you spout garbage like every word out of his mouth is false it just makes you look propagandized.

 

Not literally every single word -- I think that's obvious as it's essentially impossible...!

 

"I'm thirsty."

"Liar!!"

 

But every interview I see with him, every rally, most of what he says -- and basically every claim he makes -- is false or distorted. This is not to say that Clinton and others don't do the same...but not as consistently.

 

 

 

I never said he was a saint and yeah he's a wildcard, but as I was saying in a larger group conversation the other night at a show, this vote is primarily a vote of nationalism vs a vote for globalism.  *that* is the undercurrent of this all.  and I never said "the nationalist forces" diverse as they are, were sparkly clean either.

 

most of the federal government needs to be dismantled, reworked, I've already been past the point where I think it would be best in the long run for humanity, for the country, to have this constitutional crisis and go ahead let's redo the constitution and distance our country as far as possible from ALL of the atrocities that the usurped gov has performed in our collective names.

 

but only if the cleansing goes right to the top of the international stage, otherwise it will be worthless and we will be a further economically destroyed and weakened vassal state.

 

Well.. I can't say I haven't thought along the same lines. That not just 'spring cleaning' the government but 'tearing the house down and building a new one' is a nice daydreamy long-term solution.

 

But do you really think that's a likelihood? Do you even truly believe it's possible without a lot of turmoil? Even civil war? And do you really think that Trump even as prez would have the power to do all that?

 

 

 

So for months theyve been berating Trump for things he says about women etc.. But its perfectly fine for Hllary to appear onstage with Jay-z where he blatantly raps the N word amongst other things? hahah the hypocrisy is staggering. She uses Jay z and beyonce, hardly beacons of light or what one should aspire to as human beings, to bring more people to her rallies.

 

I can't comment on the term "nigga" as I've listened to a lot of hip-hop in my time and the word is just a noise that happens now..!

 

But as far as beacons of light..put it this way:

 

Trump, a billionaire who describes himself as a philanthropist, has donated $3.7mil to his own foundation in 20 years. He hasn't donated since 2008. And he has used foundation money to buy a portrait of himself among other things. What a beacon.

 

Beyonce, who is not as rich, has contributed to numerous charities and, for example, quietly donated $7million to the homeless in Houston.

 

So..y'know.. I don't know about Jay-Z but it appears that Beyonce at least is a bit more of a philanthropist than ol' Trumpy.

[Wells]

.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Wells

[ralis]

More dog whistle politics from the Trumpster. There are some here that will fail to notice the veiled bigotry.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaYdFMhEBmk

Edited November 6, 2016 by ralis

[Trunk]

Please people, understand what a demagogue is.  (And, to repeat what I've said before, a narcissist.)

The same can be said of ..

I encourage any/everyone to read the book.  The clinical understanding of "narcissist" is much deeper and broader than it's casual use.  And that understanding is something that you can take with you beyond this temporary political tussle, as a plus in your life, in whatever future situations - public or private. 

 

... and looking for something positive that each of us can actually take into our lives from this period, lol, might be a good thing.  After a few more days of anxiety and useless debate, and after the following few days of celebration / defeat, it will be back to the same old shit re: politics (and even if its different, it won't be good).

 

For me personally, I've thought that if I'd put the time & energy into learning a few more cooking recipes that I've put into this political season ... I'd be better off and would've made about the same difference in political culture / outcome.

 

Good luck to all of us!

 

Edited November 6, 2016 by Trunk

[bax44]

Not literally every single word -- I think that's obvious as it's essentially impossible...!

 

"I'm thirsty."

"Liar!!"

 

But every interview I see with him, every rally, most of what he says -- and basically every claim he makes -- is false or distorted. This is not to say that Clinton and others don't do the same...but not as consistently.

 

 

 

 

Well.. I can't say I haven't thought along the same lines. That not just 'spring cleaning' the government but 'tearing the house down and building a new one' is a nice daydreamy long-term solution.

 

But do you really think that's a likelihood? Do you even truly believe it's possible without a lot of turmoil? Even civil war? And do you really think that Trump even as prez would have the power to do all that?

 

 

 

 

I can't comment on the term "nigga" as I've listened to a lot of hip-hop in my time and the word is just a noise that happens now..!

 

But as far as beacons of light..put it this way:

 

Trump, a billionaire who describes himself as a philanthropist, has donated $3.7mil to his own foundation in 20 years. He hasn't donated since 2008. And he has used foundation money to buy a portrait of himself among other things. What a beacon.

 

Beyonce, who is not as rich, has contributed to numerous charities and, for example, quietly donated $7million to the homeless in Houston.

 

So..y'know.. I don't know about Jay-Z but it appears that Beyonce at least is a bit more of a philanthropist than ol' Trumpy.

 

You seem to have totally missed the point, or you just didnt read what I said. How is it that the media just pounds on Trump for his *gasp* offensive language for months and spins it to turn him  into a monster, but Hillary is on the same stage as JayZ who uses racial slurs and language that would make Trump Blush and they barely acknowledge it and actually turn it into some kind of positive? To me its hypocritical at best and just further illustrates the severe bias that exists in the media and they push an agenda and get people riled up when and how they please.

[Brian]

You seem to have totally missed the point, or you just didnt read what I said. How is it that the media just pounds on Trump for his *gasp* offensive language for months and spins it to turn him into a monster, but Hillary is on the same stage as JayZ who uses racial slurs and language that would make Trump Blush and they barely acknowledge it and actually turn it into some kind of positive? To me its hypocritical at best and just further illustrates the severe bias that exists in the media and they push an agenda and get people riled up when and how they please.

Sadly, hypocrisy is a cornerstone of this movement because the advocates view the populace as pawns on a chessboard and believe the ends justify the means. Character doesn't matter, individuals don't matter, only the objective does.

[dust]

You seem to have totally missed the point, or you just didnt read what I said. How is it that the media just pounds on Trump for his *gasp* offensive language for months and spins it to turn him  into a monster, but Hillary is on the same stage as JayZ who uses racial slurs and language that would make Trump Blush and they barely acknowledge it and actually turn it into some kind of positive? To me its hypocritical at best and just further illustrates the severe bias that exists in the media and they push an agenda and get people riled up when and how they please.

 

I didn't miss your point, you just don't have as much of a point as you think you do.

 

Firstly, "offensive language" is only one of many many things people dislike about Trump.

 

Secondly, as far as "racial slurs"... if that's the thing that bugs you about Jay Z, I'm stunned. He claims he used to sell drugs. If true, he has probably done violence and sold crack and owned an illegal firearm. That's probably what should bother you about him. But none of that means that he is a bad person now. People can grow. He regrets what he did. I obviously don't know what he's really like, as I said, but as far as I know he and Beyonce are pretty decent people now.

 

As far as the word "nigga" -- I think you need to think about that. I don't know what colour your skin is, but the wider social acceptance of a word is the main feature here. 'Nigger' is a racial slur, 'nigga' is generally different. In the USA, a lot of black people don't like it, but a lot use it. It has become ubiquitous. Nasty slur to some, but simple term of acknowledgement to many. This is how language works sometimes.

 

It's the same with 'queer' -- originally pejorative, LGBT etc people use it now as a term of acknowledgement. The word has been reappropriated. I don't feel I have any right to say that 'queer' should never be used because it was an insult in the 19th Century, and I don't feel I have any right to say that 'nigga' should never be used because it's a version of an insulting word.

[dust]

here you go https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trumps-five-point-plan-for-ethics-reform

 

he also wants term limits for congress and the senate. if you understand how corruption works, this is one of the most important issues in american politics bar none.

 

there's no way you can argue against this and hillary isn't proposing anything similar. of course you could move the goalposts and say he wouldn't actually implement any of it, but at this stage it's all hypothetical.

 

 

I appreciate the post, and I agree with most of the aims of the plan there, but do you really think any of this is within the realms of likelihood? Do you think any of it will actually happen? Do you think Trump is the man who will make it happen?

 

I'm not saying that because it is unlikely you should not support it. You've highlighted one good point about the man -- at the least, he has a desire to make some positive changes. But so did Obama, and I see people on here claiming he's ushered in the end of humanity. So... is one reason, one unrealistic 5-point plan, a good reason to be pro-Trump?

 

 

 

Well I said I'd stay out of it but it's pretty damn good theatre..

[bax44]

I didn't miss your point, you just don't have as much of a point as you think you do.

 

Firstly, "offensive language" is only one of many many things people dislike about Trump.

 

Secondly, as far as "racial slurs"... if that's the thing that bugs you about Jay Z, I'm stunned. He claims he used to sell drugs. If true, he has probably done violence and sold crack and owned an illegal firearm. That's probably what should bother you about him. But none of that means that he is a bad person now. People can grow. He regrets what he did. I obviously don't know what he's really like, as I said, but as far as I know he and Beyonce are pretty decent people now.

 

As far as the word "nigga" -- I think you need to think about that. I don't know what colour your skin is, but the wider social acceptance of a word is the main feature here. 'Nigger' is a racial slur, 'nigga' is generally different. In the USA, a lot of black people don't like it, but a lot use it. It has become ubiquitous. Nasty slur to some, but simple term of acknowledgement to many. This is how language works sometimes.

 

It's the same with 'queer' -- originally pejorative, LGBT etc people use it now as a term of acknowledgement. The word has been reappropriated. I don't feel I have any right to say that 'queer' should never be used because it was an insult in the 19th Century, and I don't feel I have any right to say that 'nigga' should never be used because it's a version of an insulting word.

 

I never said Jay Zs language bothered me at all. Youre talking to someone who listened to 2 pac growing up. Im bothered by the double standard of them attacking Trump for his language and then not even really talking about her allowing him on stage with her to sing those lyrics. So yes, you totally missed my point again.

Edited November 6, 2016 by bax44

[CloudHands]

Dude.. it's not just simplified.. it's quite skewed..

 

We have to split the "wings" into 2 or 3 parts before having such a conversation.

 

Economic 'wings': communistic sharing vs capitalistic competition

Governmental 'wings': emphasis on governmental oversight vs emphasis on restriction of government's role

Social/cultural 'wings': emphasis on forward motion & change vs emphasis on tradition & staying the same

..and a bunch more.

 

Do you think communistic sharing always goes hand in hand with forward motion and rigid government?

 

Or capitalistic competition always goes hand in hand with tradition and having suffocating laws?

 

Left wing has connotations with communism, govt oversight, and change -- and I don't think these things fit together well

Right wing has connotations with capitalism, restriction of govt, and tradition -- and I don't think these things fit either

 

Left and right are an illusion. These terms serve only to force division and enmity.

 

In my opinion, capitalistic competition with a social emphasis on sharing, restriction of govt role but emphasis on certain roles, and emphasis on forward motion and change but with some tendency to preserve useful traditions, is the preferable combination. How would you categorize this? Left or right? I hope you don't think such a personal subject can be so easily boxed up!

 

 

Great post. Can you define furthermore capitalistic competition with a social emphasis on sharing ?

[Karl]

Comey has given up and said no grounds for prosecution.

[wilfred]

I appreciate the post, and I agree with most of the aims of the plan there, but do you really think any of this is within the realms of likelihood? Do you think any of it will actually happen? Do you think Trump is the man who will make it happen?

 

I'm not saying that because it is unlikely you should not support it. You've highlighted one good point about the man -- at the least, he has a desire to make some positive changes. But so did Obama, and I see people on here claiming he's ushered in the end of humanity. So... is one reason, one unrealistic 5-point plan, a good reason to be pro-Trump?

 

 

 

Well I said I'd stay out of it but it's pretty damn good theatre..

 

i think there's more chance that someone who isn't already a career politician could follow through with curbing the influence of money in politics, than the alternative. he's a unique candidate in that sense, largely self-funded and has maintained a consistent view on incompetence in politics for decades. it isn't just stuff he's pulling out of a hat, he's literally been saying it since the 80s.

 

the case for trump is largely economic. some of it involves the assumption that the system as it exists today is unsustainable and needs to be torn down and the pieces picked up in a way that will be productive. and that some type of big crash/dislocation in the IMF$ system is inevitable. you see how trump's experience with handling bankruptcies and debt might be relevant? he certainly seems to have a better grasp of economics than many of the top 'experts' in this field, no doubt from his real world business experience https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4544001/donald-trump-1991-house-hearing-us-economic-recovery-depression-vs-recession

 

you kind of need to read between the lines when he talks about renegotiating international trade, he can't give it to people straight because to say default is political suicide. take away trade deficits and you take away the grounds for much of the debt, which is the parasitic banking system's lifeblood. he's also dropped hints like mentioning how the fed is politicized and ZIRP is a huge bubble, but doesn't go into too much as it's over the average person's head. but this is what he's effectively proposing, trigger some sort of default/recalibration of the global economic system, lots of pain the short term but will allow the US to come out stronger in the long term. weed out an inefficient, fradulent financial system by letting the chips fall. the alternative to keep going along as things are is a far more dangerous path, both politically and socially.

 

that's my 2cents.

Edited November 6, 2016 by wilfred

[Golden Dragon Shining]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suDHJDX90zE

[thelerner]

Do people really believe things on Infowars?  Consider them a 'reputable' source of information? 

I'd expect they'd be basket cases, <ie world ending, Black helicopter roundup, financial collapse every 2 months>  very very gullible or both. 

 

He repeats this shtick every 4 years, laying it on even thicker then the quarterly calls for the coming end.  If you're really worried just watch from 4 years ago, or 8 years or 12 and you'll see the same thing.. in some cases word for word.. I think they were even longer winded back then, an hour or two. 

 

I'm not telling you to vote Hillary, but Infowars is moronic on so many levels.

[wilfred]

Do people really believe things on Infowars?  Consider them a 'reputable' source of information? 

I'd expect they'd be basket cases, <ie world ending, Black helicopter roundup, financial collapse every 2 months>  very very gullible or both. 

 

He repeats this shtick every 4 years, laying it on even thicker then the quarterly calls for the coming end.  If you're really worried just watch from 4 years ago, or 8 years or 12 and you'll see the same thing.. in some cases word for word.. I think they were even longer winded back then, an hour or two. 

 

I'm not telling you to vote Hillary, but Infowars is moronic on so many levels.

 

alex jones is generally hyperbolic but an informed person will look at as many alternative sources of information as possible to get an idea of the bigger picture. this should be obvious given the leaks pertaining to media collusion and their lack of reporting on many important stories this election cycle. to discount the things infowars are reporting on because 'infowars' is just as bad as believing everything alex jones is yelling about. i've found this to be an increasingly common reaction from left leaning people as of late, to attack the source when information is presented that conflicts with their world view. particularly when it comes to all the information leaking about criminal activity in the DNC/clinton foundation. people just don't want to hear it.

 

from a certain perspective AJ has a good track record, example he called obama being a fraud before the 08 election when this wasn't a popular opinion. obviously it's debatable, but a much larger amount of people now hold this view after 8 years of his policies. all depends on your perspective. certainly the fact that infowars is bigger than ever isn't because they've been dead wrong about things. he'd been banging on about the clintons and the clinton foundation long before the leaks showed a lot of the conspiracy 'theories' to be facts.

Edited November 6, 2016 by wilfred

[bax44]

Do people really believe things on Infowars?  Consider them a 'reputable' source of information? 

I'd expect they'd be basket cases, <ie world ending, Black helicopter roundup, financial collapse every 2 months>  very very gullible or both. 

 

He repeats this shtick every 4 years, laying it on even thicker then the quarterly calls for the coming end.  If you're really worried just watch from 4 years ago, or 8 years or 12 and you'll see the same thing.. in some cases word for word.. I think they were even longer winded back then, an hour or two. 

 

I'm not telling you to vote Hillary, but Infowars is moronic on so many levels.

 

Honestly youre probably less "informed" by watching cnn than infowars in my opinion. Unless your idea of being "informed" is the story being shaped to fit a certain narrative.

Edited November 6, 2016 by bax44

[wilfred]

Honestly youre probably less "informed" by watching cnn than infowars in my opinion. Unless your idea of being "informed" is the story being shaped to fit a certain narrative.

 

or web content like the huffington post/young turks. that's just propaganda for the left, as much as infowars is for the right.

[bax44]

or web content like the huffington post/young turks. that's just propaganda for the left, as much as infowars is for the right.

 

Yep. Youre just as misinformed and lost watching these places and mainstream media in general. Its just more "acceptable" to talk about in social circles than somewhere like infowars. 

[thelerner]

Really??  Those other 'main stream' media aren't preaching the coming nuclear war or the round up of Americans by the Military that should have taken place last year, with internment camps under Walmarts etc.,   They're 'acceptable' cause they may be wrong but they're not crazy.

 

Undoubtedly they make fun of Trump, but unlike Alex Jones they're not saying he's literally a demon as Jones does.  There is a difference. 

 

If I'm misinformed it in a way that allows me to predict the future relatively well (at least in terms of probability), whereas, seems like wacko sites are stuck replaying 'coming apocalypse' and 'they're all satanists and demons'.. over and over.  I believe in watching a wide variety of news sources and I'll catch the Jones show every now (confess I can't watch a whole one) and then, read some Icke to find out how the Space Lizards on the hollow moon, are making out lately, but most of the time, they're repeating - impending doom, satanists working against us. 

 

Since this is the Hillary and Trump thread, I think the crazed hyperbole like Alex Jones, doesn't hurt Hillary much.  Only True Believers will see it, and they're unlikely democratic voters.  I consider myself an independent I sincerely believe 4 or 5 of the Republicans running in the primary could beat Clinton.  (I might well have voted for moderate John Kasich)  Not by saying she's a hag or demon or drinks childrens blood, rather with straight policy talk.  

 

This stuff reads to main stream America in the same vein as a wacko site saying Trump is a real vampire and showing Jone's style pictures of him flying as a bat.  Maybe the most gullible will buy into it, but in the real world, it won't sell.  Not well.  Rather adult discussion and normal politics would be enough.  Not Jail (or hang) Hillary, rather talk about Obama care rate hikes or immigration policy.. They never need crazy blood soaked images in a bath tub to win.  Matter of fact it probably marks them as a little crazy to the average American.

 

 

If Hillary wins and its pretty likely (not assured) all the True Believers are going to expecting doom, even more then delivered under 8 years of devil Obama.  And they'll miss opportunities.. It's probably no fun expecting collapse every other month and living under the sword of Damocles all the time. 

[wilfred]

Really??  Those other 'main stream' media aren't preaching the coming nuclear war or the round up of Americans by the Military that should have taken place last year, with internment camps under Walmarts etc.,   They're 'acceptable' cause they may be wrong but they're not crazy.

 

Undoubtedly they make fun of Trump, but unlike Alex Jones they're not saying he's literally a demon as Jones does.  There is a difference. 

 

If I'm misinformed it in a way that allows me to predict the future relatively well (at least in terms of probability), whereas, seems like wacko sites are stuck replaying 'coming apocalypse' and 'they're all satanists and demons'.. over and over.  I believe in watching a wide variety of news sources and I'll catch the Jones show every now (confess I can't watch a whole one) and then, read some Icke to find out how the Space Lizards on the hollow moon, are making out lately, but most of the time, they're repeating - impending doom, satanists working against us. 

 

Since this is the Hillary and Trump thread, I think the crazed hyperbole like Alex Jones, doesn't hurt Hillary much.  Only True Believers will see it, and they're unlikely democratic voters.  I consider myself an independent I sincerely believe 4 or 5 of the Republicans running in the primary could beat Clinton.  Not by saying she's a hag or demon or drinks childrens blood, rather with straight policy talk.  

 

This stuff reads to main stream America in the same vein as a wacko site saying Trump is a real vampires and showing Jones style pictures of him flying as a bat.  Maybe the most gullible will buy into it, but in the real world, it won't sell.  Not well.  Rather adult discussion and normal politics would be enough.  Not Jail (or hang) Hillary, rather talk about Obama care rate hikes or immigration policy.. They never need crazy blood soaked images in a bath tub to win.  Matter of fact it probably marks them as a little crazy to the average American.

 

 

If Hillary wins and its pretty likely (not assured) all the True Believers are going to expecting doom, even more then delivered under 8 years of devil Obama.  And they'll miss opportunities.. It's probably no fun expecting collapse every other month and living under the sword of Damocles all the time. 

 

just a slow grind into collapse, i'm sure most of us will get on with our lives in the meanwhile.

 

the spirit cooking thing is actually something these people get down with in their spare time though. these are things coming out in the emails, not crazy theories.

[bax44]

Of course they make ridiculous claims on there, I never said that. But think about this-- if someone had told you 4 years ago that 11 days before an election that the FBI would be investigating Hillary Clinton about her foundation and her emails- I imagine you may have laughed it off as a ridiculous "conspiracy theory". Fact is there is plenty going on in reality now that would make many conspiracy theories look tame by comparison. And lets not pretend the MSM doesnt pick and choose to litter in an inordinate amount of ridiculous nonsense to mislead people. Blacks killing cops and vice versa seems to have all but dropped off the radar conveniently. They push these stories when and how it suits them. Next week it could be North korea is ready to blow us half to hell then 6 months go by and you never hear about it again. A kitten gets killed crossing the street and its "breaking news". They are just as sensationalized just in a different and actually more dangerous way imo, because the average person soaks it in like a sponge and doesnt question it.

Edited November 7, 2016 by bax44

[thelerner]

No, I wouldn't be surprised that they were looking into a billion dollar charity or looking into Trumps 'charity'.  That's par for the course.  Nor is it surprising that they'd look hard into a private email account in the age of Hackers.  That's not crazy conspiracy theory. 

 

Bax44.. did you see the video I was writing about?  The one Sionnach posted with the dead body covered in blood in the bath tub and accusations of bloody pedophilia?  That is a little different.  Thats in my opinion moving into bat shit crazy.

 

'Blacks killing cops' is not daily news because it doesn't happen daily, thank God.  North Korea threatening the world is barely news, because they do it all the time.  It's probably weekly and is in half Kim Jung's speeches.. its what he does. 

 

I read the news, probably too much and there's tons on the election.. from many different angles.  Definitely most news is antiTrump, but that's because he's a lousy unvetted candidate who tends to lie and reverse his positions frequently.  Not saying Hillary is much better, but she's been attacked by newspapers for decades.

 

I have a dozen news sources on my computers front page and nothing about Kittens being killed instead there's stories about the elections, on Raqqa, FactCheck.org reviewing Final Push by Trump & Clinton.  I like sites like FactCheck, non partisan that looks at what they said and well.. fact checks.  It does hurt Trump more then Clinton, but Trump says more foolish things. 

 

<addon Bax the 'slow grind into collapse'.. is that really happening?   The recession was bad, 2007-2009 the US was losing 800,000 jobs a month, the stock market was halved, the Financial and Auto industry was on the brink of utter collapse.  That was 8 years ago.  The recovery has been slow, largely jobless especially the first few years, but it has been real.  If things hadn't improved, we'd be in deep deep depression.  We're not. 

 

We owe more, but our solvency situation is much better because we're collecting much much more in taxes and interest rates are low.  Not ideal, but better then 8 years ago and its been steadily improving.  That's not to say another recession won't come along, but boom and bust are the ways of Capitalism. (interesting article and historic perspective on the debt- https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296)

[joeblast]

https:

puts sandy hook in a new light eh?

 

kids not listed on gun murder list

 

parents not seeing kids bodies (except for that 1 kid that did have a funeral)

 

the invented AR was just icing for gun control

 

 

 

 

you cannot ignore that member....cmon, I dont go to CNN or NBC or ABC for a fkn reason, I dont want to read propagandized bullshit, which is why we should be able to ignore, ffs

Edited November 7, 2016 by joeblast

[Trunk]

For in-depth detailed reliable I like

TheRealNews.com

also on fb: The Real News Network .

 

"The Real News" takes no corporate donations, only small personal donations and they are critical of both left and right.