Hillary and Trump

[MooNiNite]

Can anybody explain to me who is going to grow vegetables and work in the hotels if 12 million illegals are deported?

 

You really think we will just magically deport them all?

[MooNiNite]

We could let way more in Legally while we are deporting. 

[MooNiNite]

I cant believe the government just offers all these food stamp programs and they dont even connect any type of required job assistance program with it? Like if youre on food stamps, and able to work, you should be looking for a job.

 

When I lived in California, it was rediculious all the young kids running around with their EBT cards.

[redcairo]

 

I think a lot of alleged racial prejudice is not racism at all.

 

I just want to add: The one thing the last three, count them three!, election cycles have done for me, is just emphasize stronger every time how much I actually resent people using whining-defense-as-offense as a form of bullying.

 

This whole "You can't say X because you just don't like them because they're (black! a woman! muslim! whatever)" is the most wretchedly disingenious and insidious social-orwellian habit we've got in the country right now.

 

It is literally impossible to hold any conversation (let alone an intelligent one) with a goodly number of people who, outside this pathology, seem perfectly normal, because they are so hyperdefensive about people's race or gender or religion that all conversation that is even the slightest bit critical -- let alone a lot critical, as is often to be expected in politics direct or indirect -- is perceived as an attack on the detail, and hence an attack on morals, and hence an attack on their morals, and hence an attack on them, and one minute you're having a conversation about the economic consequences of say, legalizing marijuana or enforcing border control, perfectly normal socio-political things to talk about, and next thing you know someone wants to KILL you because you are a racist/sexist/religionist/nazi/pig whatever.

 

It was really crazy with Obama -- and there *was* racism at times I agree, and I called it out everywhere I saw it -- but there was also the need to be able to talk clearly about someone running for President, which was nearly impossible because no matter what you said, it was always interpreted to be about his race. I've seen more assumed-insult-based-on-sexism since HC lost than I have in the last year which is really saying something. Endless women going "Well you can be (insert list of DT insults here) but you can't be a woman and be President!" which is so injust to women, and to the Presidency, and to all elections including ours. For godssakes HC is not the only -- and probably one of the worst -- woman who could have run. Hell if they'd have made Anne Coulter the nominee instead of Trump she'd probably have won by a larger margin and then the left would have committed collective suicide over the next 24 hours (solving competition for the next 2 elections, at least, lol).

 

To me this is like putting women in the military and then if someone says, "She can't carry that pack that far, she can't move fast enough," and someone goes, "you can't say that! You're just being sexist!" -- at that point it's a serious problem. If women can't do whatever needs doing, they shouldn't be there, and plenty of women CAN, and will seriously kick your ass for implying they couldn't LOL, but it would be utterly wrong to create some thought- and word- gag on not being able to say what is, from someone's perspective, simply observably true. And in this example case, people could even say, "Women don't have the same upper body strength (obviously) in general so insulting their strength-stamina about it is sexist" but no, it's still not sexist if that issue is THE issue under discussion and it's real.

 

So I guess my point is I'm just really weary of the "offended on behalf of" meme. Nobody can "prevent anybody saying anything someone might perceive as racist" because a lot of people perceive every damn thing as racist.

 

I actually can look like nearly any race except black/asian/oriental depending on my tan or makeup. Accidental benefit of being about 15 nationalities and a light olive generic result. I sometimes kid myself I should do some great makeup, add a partial veil, and use an avatar that makes me look like an arabic woman. Oh that'd really screw up conversations now and then LOL.

 

RC

Edited November 10, 2016 by redcairo

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Karl]

I cant believe the government just offers all these food stamp programs and they dont even connect any type of required job assistance program with it? Like if youre on food stamps, and able to work, you should be looking for a job.

 

When I lived in California, it was rediculious all the young kids running around with their EBT cards.

This is the ghettoising of communities in action. In effect these are the new slave plantations for a high tech economy, it creates a need which then requires a policy and of course taxation. Minimum wage laws plus welfare have cut away the opportunity for starter jobs, which instead go to higher qualified people from better areas in preference to those who would once have been snapped up for those kinds of work.

 

The push to pay single parents, particularly single mothers welfare has alienated the family unit and many have simply given up trying to find work as it often counts against welfare income and state housing. This combination of welfare, fixed minimum wages and employment regulations has been as succesful as chains for the modern blacks and has rapidly been spread to poor white communities.

 

Of course the Mexicans have a lower standard of living in their own country and therefore lower cost of living. The Mexicans will work on the black market and often need to because they are in the country illegally. The low skilled, less educated are trapped between a black market economy, a welfare cheque and a Labour price point which makes them undesirable.

[redcairo]

You really think we will just magically deport them all?

 

Never gonna happen.

 

First you gotta deal with all the kids, parents of kids here, and elderly. They aren't going anywhere. Whatever % that is.

 

I would say that any existing 'illegal immigrant' who has a (felony level) criminal record or is in that system for processing, should be deported promptly.

 

Anybody not in either of those groups should be considered for citizenship. There may be disqualifying factors. And they should have to abide by the same rules that legal immigrants do.

 

Anybody caught in the country after amnesty deadline and grace period who hadn't applied should be deported. Improvement of border security needs to increase so these numbers will reduce.

 

The numbers are too large to export, the countries don't want them, death would await many of them, the cost would be outrageous for doing it (although offset a bit, but still too much), and the gestapo behavior that would be required to round them up is completely unacceptable.

 

I think there should be a mass offer of amnesty with some caveats and exceptions.

 

If nothing else they should be required to pay taxes like everybody else. However I think they should be prevented from any government-paid social services beyond children's, pregnancy and emergency medical, and early-childhood assistance, for a period of five years or something -- just like LEGAL immigrants face, except they don't have any exceptions at all.

 

My main concern isn't taking in 12 million people already here. My main concern is

 

a> Our existing agencies are not competent to process even the applications and issues we already have with legal immigration, never mind illegal let alone those numbers. This may be lack of resources, I don't know, but they are YEARS behind on lots of stuff.

 

b> Adding 12 million people the government (us) has to pay to feed would be insane and impractical. Also the burden of this on states with lower budgets but vastly more of those people would be horrible.

 

(If we wanted to create extreme discrimination, that would do it, from resentment.)

 

c> Most those who are actually working would promptly not be working because if they're working illegally, they're only getting that job because someone is enslaving them for dirt cheap. Make those people pay full salary and taxes and health insurance and that's going to vanish.

 

Some people use this as a reason for allowing illegals -- "who else will do that work" -- but the day you have to use "the good of slavery and servitude" as an excuse for breaking a law, the logic has seriously broken down somewhere.

 

RC

Edited November 10, 2016 by redcairo

[redcairo]

The first thing Trump should do when in office

is to pardon Assange and Snowden

and give them high ranking positions in his government, lol.

 

Pardoning: if officially guilty in our systems, they should be.

 

Doing anything else: unworkable. They'd be shot by the same sources that want to shoot them now -- if not officially mandated, then just for the moral of it at this point, I suspect.

 

RC

[Golden Dragon Shining]

Marine Le Pen is very racist ! and way worse than donald in racism !!

 

If you don't accept her you are just a patriarchal authoritarian misogynist nazi!

 

Can the moderators remove this person who doesn't agree with me? thank you

 

I am really tired of 90% of the board not agreeing with me.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Sionnach

[ralis]

I just want to add: The one thing the last three, count them three!, election cycles have done for me, is just emphasize stronger every time how much I actually resent people using whining-defense-as-offense as a form of bullying.

 

This whole "You can't say X because you just don't like them because they're (black! a woman! muslim! whatever)" is the most wretchedly disingenious and insidious social-orwellian habit we've got in the country right now.

 

It is literally impossible to hold any conversation (let alone an intelligent one) with a goodly number of people who, outside this pathology, seem perfectly normal, because they are so hyperdefensive about people's race or gender or religion that all conversation that is even the slightest bit critical -- let alone a lot critical, as is often to be expected in politics direct or indirect -- is perceived as an attack on the detail, and hence an attack on morals, and hence an attack on their morals, and hence an attack on them, and one minute you're having a conversation about the economic consequences of say, legalizing marijuana or enforcing border control, perfectly normal socio-political things to talk about, and next thing you know someone wants to KILL you because you are a racist/sexist/religionist/nazi/pig whatever.

 

It was really crazy with Obama -- and there *was* racism at times I agree, and I called it out everywhere I saw it -- but there was also the need to be able to talk clearly about someone running for President, which was nearly impossible because no matter what you said, it was always interpreted to be about his race. I've seen more assumed-insult-based-on-sexism since HC lost than I have in the last year which is really saying something. Endless women going "Well you can be (insert list of DT insults here) but you can't be a woman and be President!" which is so injust to women, and to the Presidency, and to all elections including ours. For godssakes HC is not the only -- and probably one of the worst -- woman who could have run. Hell if they'd have made Anne Coulter the nominee instead of Trump she'd probably have won by a larger margin and then the left would have committed collective suicide over the next 24 hours (solving competition for the next 2 elections, at least, lol).

 

To me this is like putting women in the military and then if someone says, "She can't carry that pack that far, she can't move fast enough," and someone goes, "you can't say that! You're just being sexist!" -- at that point it's a serious problem. If women can't do whatever needs doing, they shouldn't be there, and plenty of women CAN, and will seriously kick your ass for implying they couldn't LOL, but it would be utterly wrong to create some thought- and word- gag on not being able to say what is, from someone's perspective, simply observably true. And in this example case, people could even say, "Women don't have the same upper body strength (obviously) in general so insulting their strength-stamina about it is sexist" but no, it's still not sexist if that issue is THE issue under discussion and it's real.

 

So I guess my point is I'm just really weary of the "offended on behalf of" meme. Nobody can "prevent anybody saying anything someone might perceive as racist" because a lot of people perceive every damn thing as racist.

 

I actually can look like nearly any race except black/asian/oriental depending on my tan or makeup. Accidental benefit of being about 15 nationalities and a light olive generic result. I sometimes kid myself I should do some great makeup, add a partial veil, and use an avatar that makes me look like an arabic woman. Oh that'd really screw up conversations now and then LOL.

 

RC

 

In terms of my posting, I was providing a context in which the inflammatory posts are not isolated to this site alone, but in a broader social context. However, I see from a moderators response that my comments are largely ignored and marginalized. I guess anything goes here in the name of free speech. From my point of view, I don't foresee anyone being banned for starting inflammatory threads.

Edited November 10, 2016 by ralis

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Karl]

 

If you don't accept her you are just a patriarchal authoritarian misogynist nazi!

 

Can the moderators remove this person who doesn't agree with me? thank you

 

I am really tired of 90% of the board not agreeing with me.

I hear you, the thing about agreeing with you is that it starts off with a quick drink down the pub, but quickly deteriorated into a drunken all nighter; waking up butt naked in a gutter covered in piss, blood and vomit. If you could just keep it to a drink, maybe two, some light nibbles and a bit of music it could actually be a pleasant experience. ;-)

[Golden Dragon Shining]

HA!

Well I don't drink, I value sobriety and health. ha

Society needs more clear thinking

Edited November 11, 2016 by Sionnach

[Karl]

HA!

 

Well I don't drink, I value sobriety and health. ha

 

Society needs more clear thinking

Individuals might find things work out better if they applied their minds in an objective manner.

 

I don't know about societies, I've never met one I could talk to face to face.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

A society is individuals

A team is individuals working together to achieve success.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Sionnach

[Karl]

A society is individuals

 

A team is individuals working together to achieve success.

It's that hole in your reasoning that bothers me. It's made you tribal.

 

You have a collective philosophy which has individuals working towards a collective goal, instead, if you take some time to introspect you will notice that this is not true of you. We certainly do cooperate with others, but for purely selfish ends.

 

I had a great piece of writing by a US marine who explained why he went to war. He explained that it wasn't a duty, nor for the greater good, but because he understood the need for freedom-his freedom and his families freedom and it was this that he fought for. He was saying how he despised the public and politicians that praised his apparent 'sacrifice', that it was neither sacrifice, nor duty, but for totally selfish ends and that people should stop treating soldiers as sacrificial lambs fighting for the collective. They fight for themselves and they come together in an enterprise to destroy a mutual enemy that is trying to take their freedom away.

[Karl]

A society is individuals

 

A team is individuals working together to achieve success.

Ive found the YouTube of this marine speaking which, perhaps, coming from someone that represents the soldier ant of the collective, can be more fully understood as a rationally selfish individual acting to achieve his own selfish values to sustain his life and bring him happiness. It's only 10 mins and very inspiring.

https://youtu.be/imTWP0do4Pc

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[redcairo]

 

Why yes, of course people like Miley Cyrus are distraught at what a great person HC is who 'deserves' presidency. Being a paragon of such excellent character herself and all.

 

(I have never heard anybody say about any man running for office that he deserved the presidency.)

 

RC

[Karl]

 

Why yes, of course people like Miley Cyrus are distraught at what a great person HC is who 'deserves' presidency. Being a paragon of such excellent character herself and all.

 

(I have never heard anybody say about any man running for office that he deserved the presidency.)

 

RC

My word but that Miley Cyrus is a trollop.

[ralis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fh2hNyxPRs

 

Go, Gowdy! Lock her up!

 

I find it impossible to take your posts seriously.

[dawei]

I find it impossible to take your posts seriously.

 

I agree on some level.. it's time to move on past election borrowed rhetoric.

 

If Trump is smart, he'll settle the Trump U thing quickly to get it out of the way...and he'll likely distance himself from anything about HC investigations.    I'm betting he'll put aside most of the past rhetoric and get down to 'business'... why should we do any less on some level.

[ralis]

I think it is apropos to examine the double standards that men place on women and in the case of Hillary, the standard was much higher than Trump's. I needn't repeat Trump's transgressions here, but there seemed to be some biblical comparison between the two and as usual, males are usually given a pass (the story of King David comes to mind). I have seen references to Hillary's satanic influence over others or accusations that she is a witch cooking up spells. What the hell is this insanity? A repeat of a mad inquisitor's dream?

 

It is important to go back and examine the Axial Age in which small disparate groups began forming more organized city states. Out of that arose the angry overarching monotheistic male god (patriarchal) as the main focus of worship which prevails today.