Truth and Progress

[Boy]

I was reading Jean-Paul Sartre when I was 13 years old.

 

 

Cult it is, then.

 

edit: what is a "white light experience"? and also are you really looking for help?

Edited August 9, 2016 by Boy

[smallsteps]

Hi Siddharthashoka,

 

I read again your opening post for this thread. I am not sure to be able to help you finding the purpose of living. Not because I think that there isn't any. But because I think this is more something to be realized/experienced. It can't be an idea that can turn into an intellectual toy soon to be broken and abandoned. So even if someone could jump in here and tell you: 'the ultimate answer you are after is: so and so', it wouldn't help you IMHO.

 

But, since we are stuck into this form of web communication, with only words on a blue light emitting screen, I'll give you my take on it: Life doesn't make any sense at all without Love- Love is the ultimate Good

Light, powers, high states of consciousness, yadayadayada..lead nowhere, it is like pouring water in leaky vessels, you will never be satisfied with them. Sartre was probably a great intellectual, but what else?

 

That's my view. It is just words in a post and it probably means nothing for most people who will laugh or despise such an answer but it means everything to me. I tell you this because you were kind enough to add me as your friend.

 

To me, the ultimate is Love (the Good). Love is not an emotion nor an average human feeling, it is not a graffiti on a railway station toilet wall, it is the core of our being (and interbeing with others, and even tiny insects), and this core needs to be uncovered, nourished, developed. And this is a hard, tough task because we have to renounce to any evil deed etc. everything you know already.

 

I should leave the thread now, I have said too much about myself.

My two cents. Take what's useful, if any.

Take good care of yourself my friend

Edited August 9, 2016 by smallsteps

[Michael Sternbach]

I get a disturbing feeling from these posts.

Are you suggesting that this evolution isn't really about progressing or getting better by any means?

If we are all already complete and all is needed is simple let it be attitude... then really, what are we doing here?

My head is often steaming from reading the elaborations of abstract concepts and endless comparsions of different 'levels' and states of being.

This can be answered in more way than one. I like to think of the realized self as entelechy, telos or Great Attractor inducing in your present personality the very processes that eventually lead to its manifestation. In Aristotle's theory, there are four kinds of causes for everything, one of them being the final cause which is acting backwards through time. Then again, time does not seem to exist outside the physical framework, so what you are intended to become is inside you now, talking to you through intuitions, visions, dreams. It's acting as a "higher self" as it were.

 

There will be hints speaking to your potential in your daily life. This does not mean that there are no steps for you to take in your present reality towards this fulfillment - rather to the contrary. It does mean that spiritual evolution occurs not so much by the addition of thigs external to your being but by the unfolding of the potentials within you, much like a plant is growing from a seed which already contains the blueprint for its fully developed form in its genetic code.

[dwai]

Quote from Earl Grey:

 

"Children building sand castles only to be swept away by the sea--same question one asks why Tibetan monks make sand mandalas and then destroy them later to show the impermanence of life and warning to avoid attachment perhaps?">>>

 

I think it is not to show the impermanence but rather to experience it.

 

Not a warning to avoid attachment - but to experience a detaching.

 

With children I think it's more a case of the pleasure of creating something. It doesn't matter to a child if it is permanent or temporary. The creativity that fuels building a sand castle (or anything creative that a child does), is the pure flow of energy and intelligence. They don't attach (until a certain age) to their creations...they just do and that's it.

 

My 8-year old daughter still doesn't care if we keep or throw away her drawings and paintings. She does it because it makes her feel good...she draws and gifts people a special drawing or painting. I've seen many kids do that....

[dawei]

My 8-year old daughter still doesn't care if we keep or throw away her drawings and paintings. She does it because it makes her feel good...she draws and gifts people a special drawing or painting. I've seen many kids do that....

 

I think there is a certain impetus... some call it Dao

[liminal_luke]

I get a disturbing feeling from these posts.

Are you suggesting that this evolution isn't really about progressing or getting better by any means?

If we are all already complete and all is needed is simple let it be attitude... then really, what are we doing here?

 

 

Here´s the thing, Papayaapple. All those people talking about our inherent spotless enlightened nature and how it has been there all along?  They didn´t just wake up one morning with that realization.  Ask them how much they practiced before that understanding came.  Ask Spotless.  Ask Silent Thunder.  

 

A person has to practice a hell of a lot before that kind of knowing sinks all the way in.   (Even if the sinking, when it comes, seems to happen suddenly.) 

Edited August 13, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Jadespear]

Aha!  The real question has arisen in you.

 

First of all - to answer this question, perhaps you should pose it to yourself in another way.  For after all - the " you ", that you call yourself, is really a combination of the habits of all of your physical, astral, and mental habits throughout all of your past lives and existences.  Therefore, for all real philosophical thinking about it and to take place, you need to understand that in a very true sense, your personality, space, and existence have created an identity within you that is somehow hard to trace.  Also, and more importantly, you did not create yourself or the fundamental parts that cause you to operate, or to exist.....  can you trace them back to something?    No,  the concept of you and how you work, operates independently from you choosing it to be so.....  in essence and in truth - " you " don't exist, and the aspect of you that you cling to came from somewhere else.......  You have no recollection of when you were created, or where you came from, except from your physical parents...  and where did they come from?...it goes on forever back like that.    

 

Next point - why is there existence?  How is this question answered?  It is almost as if one must step outside of existence to see it operating and how it works for one to be able to answer it, like a scientist doing an experiment on a certain set of physical rules of something similar...... but the problem is - everything is part of existence, except for that which has not existed yet..... so even here it is very difficult to gain a position by which one can accurately see enough of information to answer the question of why existence exists.....    a good starting point  is to find out what existence in total truth is, how it comes into being, where does it go after that etc...   not in just a physical sense, but in a deeper sense, at the subatomic level, quantum level, and even below there...... the " unknown to modern science level " aka... what has been labeled as the "spiritual" level throughout time..... or the invisible level, the invisible world....

 

A good starting place I think is to actually answer these two questions to oneself.  What one will probably find is that the physical universe or material plane arises continuously and infinitely through certain laws of certain aspects of itself that cannot be changed, and that it is through these laws that all life matures, sustains, and dies.

 

My personal belief is this:  

 

Because I cannot remember how I came to be, I came from something else.  I call that something God.

Because there are laws that govern the existence in which I live that I cannot change, I must understand their origin and what their true purpose is: which is directed evolution towards a definite end.

Because there is a definite end to living in this universe and understanding it's laws and their origin, it only makes sense for me to abide by them and to relate to the originator.

Because I am endowed with the same qualities of the universe, a mind, a soul, and a body....I am the universe.

Because I am the universe, I need to maintain myself or I will die.

 

Because the universe is eternally perpetuating itself, and I am it, and it's reflection - I can eternally live.

 

In essence - the goal of life, the purpose of existence is truely to know everything, to be everything, to live forever, and to be a steward and master of the laws of the universe.

 

It is my belief - that the reason for our existence is to evolve and develop ourselves as reflections of the unchangeable laws that govern us, because that is all that we can do.  To this end - we develop into " spiritual " masters....  evolved beings knowledgeable of the invisble world, it's origin, it's purpose, and it's destination.

 

To realize what we actually truely are - divine beings endowed with tremendous creative power and facility as reflected by the image of our creator.  To be one with god, to serve god, and to enjoy life.   That is the purpose of life.  That is the purpose of existence.

 

The " ego " consciousness that we possess exists for our self preservation, not for our self gratification.  Another purpose involved in life, is to see the true nature of who everyone is- which has nothing to do with " self identity ", but to see that everyone is the same and is composed of the same parts.  That we are all together stuck here for a time being, to learn from each other, to create together, to develop as we need.

[Orion]

I've been doing a lot of dream work lately, through the Jungian Senoi process. The more I do the work the more I see that one thing that most "seekers" share in common is that they are all looking to realize that intangible thing, what is nameless. They do it by making manifest in the external world whatever it is that evokes the intangible thing to spring forth... as an olive branch of insight, a sensation, an experience.

 

In other words, we are all trying to realize something that is already inherent. It's like seeing something at the corner of your eye and then attributing it to something in the world around you. It's like a photographer who sees a spec on all the photos, and tries to figure out what that spec is about, rather than looking at the camera lens itself.

 

We are trying to make what is subconscious, conscious. We are seeking integration of what is already realized, with what is unrealized. So what I propose is... trust that your process is unfolding the way it's meant to, if not by Divine design, then by pure psychology. Whatever remains unlocked inside of you is looking for you. It will lead you to it as you seek it.

 

Right now you are experiencing apathy to the external world of seeking... you know, deep down, that there's nothing out there that can really show you what you're looking for. You've explored the abstract world extensively and now you are feeling stuck sitting in one place wondering what the next step is. Your privileges in life have afforded you the opportunity to explore a huge deal of worldly distractions and information gathering. Now you are sitting in place...

 

To me, you are on the verge of a breakthrough, because now that you have explored the world of "things", all you can do is with yourself and turn inward. There is nothing left outside that can satisfy you until it is met by what is inward.

 

In a nutshell - and not to sound totally cliche - what you're seeking is genuinely inside of you. The realization you're looking for is there. You can't be taught something you don't already know. No teacher can lead you to this. It is there already, ripe for the picking.

 

So you're asking what the point is of everything? There is no point unless you create one. Until you realize that essential thing within, you will live in perpetual sensation of disconnect. It's an illusion of course, but it's brought on by a need to integrate. The world cannot connect you to your own source.

 

I know I've given a lot of "answers" here, they're just my projections. As a really fond author of mine once said, answers end reality. Questions keep it open. The problem with so much intellectualization is that we begin to answer reality, we begin to antidote it until we are stuck in a corner.

 

There is no point to reality = Can I create a life that is meaningful to me?

There is no next step = What would it feel like to know the next step?

There is nowhere to go = Have I really reached the end of the road?

 

You are doing great!

Edited August 14, 2016 by Orion

[Orion]

Just wanted to add that one thing I'm noticing a lot in this consciousness work is how selection biases work. For instance, in any given day, we could write thousands of pages about the fine details of stuff that happened, if we had no filter. Yet when people sit down to do journal writing, they choose what they want to write about, perhaps unaware of why they focus on those things. Doing journal work is a great way to cross-examine how our ego level awareness chooses to receive and interpret information. Dreams are also good for this because the dream ego tends to react automatically (until it is trained) and those reactions tell a great deal about how we behave in the waking world. Do we react passively or do we take action? Are we leading or following? Are we angry, scared, jovial, apathetic? Do we wait for things to come to us or do we go to them? Is the world offensive or helpful?

 

I believe that a major part of personal progress has to do with perspective shifting. If there is an experience of limitation, then it's because of a limited perspective. It is a linear, personality issue perhaps... because the spirit is fine to do what it does. We can do a simple emptiness practice and the experience of spirit shows us that nothing is wrong. Then we step out of that practice and the discursive thoughts begin, the varied perspectives, and the feelings of dissatisfaction which temporarily arise. Modern psychology makes the mistake of saying... if only we just focused on being happy, we wouldn't be so sad. That's not the perspective shift I'm talking about. I'm referring to the shift that can occur which puts personality level awareness ("you", who I'm talking to) in alignment, cooperation, and collaboration with the Absolute.

 

As a suggestion, maybe all you need is a shift in perspective? Keep asking questions? You can live any life you want but if your perspective is that of pointlessness, then everything will be pointless.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Orion