Scientists Witness “Woman With Exceptional Powers” Of Mind Rapidly Grow A Plant From A Seed

[Golden Dragon Shining]

???
 

Why does the title of this article emphasize that ‘truly impossible’ results were witnessed? Because providing an explanation for what happened here is literally impossible right now, despite the fact that it happened repeatedly.

 

Extra ordinary human potential is something that has been studied for decades; and although a number of studies have been conducted which have yielded statistically significant results, there is still a harsh resistance by mainstream scientists to look at these topics.

On the other hand, many distinguished scientists are also recognizing and accepting the importance and relevance of this type of phenomena. Material science is great, but it’s time to usher in the reality of non-material science, something Nikola Tesla said would advance humanity immensely, with progress increasing at an exponential rate.
 

Quantum mechanics has questioned what we perceive to be the ‘material’ foundations of the world by showing that subatomic particles and atoms are not really solid objects, and has brought human consciousness into the equation.
 

Many scientists, including a large majority of our pioneering scientists, have been emphasizing the importance of factors associated with consciousness (like measurement and observation) and the influence it has on our physical material world.

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”  –  Max Planck, theoretical physicist who originated quantum theory, which won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918
 

These abilities have been demonstrated before under controlled conditions. One of the best known examples involves Ingo Swann who has his ‘remote viewing‘ abilities put under study. This effort began, supposedly, because the CIA had concerns about Soviet investigations into psychic phenomenon, as the United States had gathered intelligence showing that the Soviets were engaged in “psychotronic” research. You can read the publication as the results were published in the Journal of Scientific Exploration. (Puthoff, Harold E. 1996. CIA-Initiated Remote Viewing Program at Stanford Research Institute. Journal of Scientific Exploration, 10(1), 63-76.
 

This is important to mention because human ability that defies the current known laws of physics has been an interest to various governments, especially western intelligence agencies.
 

But, it’s not just western intelligence agencies who’s interests are piqued by this topic. China is also very active when it comes to identifying individuals with certain extended human capacities. For example, a paper published in the Peoples Republic of China (PRC) in September 1981, in the journal Ziran Zazhi (Nature Journal) tilted “Some Experiments on the Transfer of Objects Performed by Unusual Abilities of the Human Body” (Shuhuang et al., 1981) reported that ‘gifted children’ were able to cause the teleportation of small physical objects from one place to another.

There are also some extraordinary claims from a publication titled “Exceptional Functions of the Human Body.” This study reports of highly accurate parapsychological effects, including clairvoyance, psychokinetic effects, and more. (source)
 

In a report published in 2010, by retired research chemist Dong Shen, an experiment is described involving mental teleportation of bits of paper out of a sealed plastic film container. What’s even more fascinating is that these methods were taught to others and the success rate was 40 percent.
 

It’s also important to mention that what Dean Radin, the Chief Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, states:

Despite this fact, hundreds of elite, specially trained researchers from a number of scientific disciplines within China’s universities have studied unexplainable phenomena cultivated by this supposed unique group of people with ‘Exceptional Human Functions.’

Evaluating the details and credibility of these studies have been difficult because many of the papers appear only in Chinese. The techniques have not yet been reported outside of China, and the experimental methods employed in conducting such tests do not appear to be as rigorously controlled as compared to typical Western methods…
 

“The results of the Chinese Teleportation experiments can simply be explained as a human consciousness phenomenon that somehow acts to move or rotate test specimens through a 4th spacial dimension, so that specimens are able to penetrate the solid walls/barriers of their containers without physically breaching them.”  – Eric Davis, Ph.D, FBIS (source)
 

The Effects Of ‘QI Energy’ On Plant DNA & Cellular Growth

A study published in the American Journal of Chinese Medicine, as seen in the the US National Library of Medicine, demonstrated that a women with special abilities was and is able to accelerate the germination of specific seeds for the purposes of developing a more robust seed stock.  As the study states:
 

Pretty remarkable isn’t it? How does Sun do it? Apparently, she enters into a deep trance-like state, and from this place, she is able to advance the time required for sprouting dry seeds from their usual 3 to 4 days , to 20 minutes, generating a sprout growth of 3-4 inches. After a genetic analysis, scientists confirmed this to be the case, hence, the using of the word “rapid” in the title.

Chulin Sun is a woman with exceptional powers (Shen and Sun, 1996, 1998; Sun, 1998). A member of the Chinese Somatic Science Research Institute, she is a practitioner of Waiqi. Waiqi is a type of qigong that teaches the practitioner to bring the qi energy of traditional Chinese medicine under the control of the mind. Chulin Sun can induce plant seeds to grow shoots and roots several cm long within 20 min using mentally projected qi energy (Fig. 1). This has been demonstrated on more than 180 different occasions at universities as well as science and research institutions in China (including Taiwan and Hong Kong) as well as other countries (e.g., Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, etc.) (Ge et al., 1998; Qin et al., 1998; Lee et al., 1999). We took part in and repeated the qi germination experiments seven times, and five of them succeeded (Ge et al., 1998). This remarkable effect on seed development has drawn widespread attention (Tompkins and Bird, 1973; Lee, 1998), but the biological mechanisms that underlie this phenomenon are unknown.(source)
 

The abstract of the study also states,

This was preliminary thought because video tapes from the recording of this experiment showed time distortion. It was also reported that near-by-clocks will show the full time of the experiment as it passes, despite the fact that, in some cases, the camera only showed 1 minute of film time.  It’s funny, because these time disturbances are also commonly reported with these types of practices in Chinese folklore.

It was thought preliminarily that qi energy changed the structure of a germination-correlated gene site speeding up expression and advancing it in time.
 

According to Danielle Graham, a founding editor and current Editor in-Chief of SuperConsciousness Magazine (also an American Institute of Physics experimental researchers) states that,
 

The study of phenomena like this have been happening for years and will hopefully continue into the years to come. The mainstream opens up more and more when it comes to these topics and it’s only a matter of time before, like many previously unbelieved phenomena, will become much better understood and self evident.  http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/07/01/scientists-witness-woman-with-exceptional-powers-of-mind-rapidly-grow-a-plant-from-a-seed/

Those who study the physical effects of the EHF’s mind-matter interface often collaborate on their findings. The researchers agree they are observing repeatable, hyper-time-space-non-linear macro phenomena that violate the classical and relativistic models in which the nature of physical matter is currently understood…
 

It is commonly understood by these scientists that an EHF’s personal and individual evolution is directly linked to their individual skills; the greater their capacity to manipulate matter; the more spiritually evolved the EHF is considered to be…

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/07/01/scientists-witness-woman-with-exceptional-powers-of-mind-rapidly-grow-a-plant-from-a-seed/

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Sionnach

[blackstar212]

Nothing from Snopes yet but this article is pretty new.

[Brian]

Some of the relevant links from the article...

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10794112

http://zeniclinic.com/2011/04/dna/

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/07/01/scientists-witness-woman-with-exceptional-powers-of-mind-rapidly-grow-a-plant-from-a-seed/

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

[Silent Answers]

"This was preliminary though because video tapes from the recording of this experiment showed time distortion. It was also reported that near-by-clocks will show the full time of the experiment as it passes, despite the fact that, in some cases, the camera only showed 1 minute of film time. It’s funny, because these time disturbances are also commonly reported with these types of practices in Chinese folklore."

 

So, the time on the clocks doesn't match that of the video speed, and the author puts it down to spooky time distortions as told in Chinese folktales.....

 

Am I misreading this, or is the author really that biased?

Edited August 11, 2016 by Silent Answers

[joeblast]

Nothing from Snopes yet but this article is pretty new.

like snopes is an absolute authority - they say the body count behind the clintons has nothing to do with the clintons, and they "debunked" 911 too

 

so if its data you arent meant to know, places like snopes will    make sure they write the "correct" things about the subject in question.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

[silent thunder]

I recall either reading about her, or another young woman with similar abilities, I believe it was the book The Source Field Investigations.  Read it some five years ago.  In it, was the account of a man, who being given a high honor for services rendered, was invited to attend an event where he and a moderate size group of individuals met in an auditorium, where each were handed a rosebud.  The young woman came on stage and over the period of several minutes, all of the rosebuds bloomed in the people's hands. 

[Golden Dragon Shining]

What is the Western equivalent of Chi? Aether (the 5th element)? Scientific equivalent?

“A bio photon (from the Greek βιο meaning “life” and φωτο meaning “light”), synonymous with ultra weak photon emission, low-level biological chemiluminescence, ultra weak bioluminescence, dark luminescence and other similar terms, is a photon of light emitted from a biological system and detected by biological probes as part of the general weak electromagnetic radiation of living biological cells.”?

[Aeran]

Aether would be closer to the Buddhist element of space/void, or the Hindu element of Akasha.

 

Something much closer to Qi would be the ancient Greek concept of Pneuma, which was translated as Spiritus by the Romans. Unfortunately the concept mostly died out with the rise of Christianity, instead of integrating and developing within Western society as it did in Eastern society - it was too closely tied to pagan philosophies.

 

Skip forward to the 18th century and there was a surge in interest in what was called "animal magnetism" following the the Mesmerism movement of Anton Mesmer, although it eventually died out. There was also Reichenbach's Odic Force in the middle of the 19th century, and then in the first half of the 20th century Wilhelm Reich wrote extensively about the concept, calling it Orgone.

 

So the idea isn't alien to Western society, but it seems to have always clashed with philosophies which have held a stronger grip on the Western conception of the world - first Christianity, and then later, post-Enlightenment scientific materialism.

 

"This was preliminary though because video tapes from the recording of this experiment showed time distortion. It was also reported that near-by-clocks will show the full time of the experiment as it passes, despite the fact that, in some cases, the camera only showed 1 minute of film time. It’s funny, because these time disturbances are also commonly reported with these types of practices in Chinese folklore."

 

So, the time on the clocks doesn't match that of the video speed, and the author puts it down to spooky time distortions as told in Chinese folktales.....

Am I misreading this, or is the author really that biased? 

 

 

That was my first thought as well - it's an interesting story though.

[Shad282]

Well i m not sure... but most of the time when someone shows an ability, filmed or not... at the end it ends up as a trick or scam or something like that to make money or be famous...

[Karl]

Well i m not sure... but most of the time when someone shows an ability, filmed or not... at the end it ends up as a trick or scam or something like that to make money or be famous...

Oh no, a wicked dis-believer, there's always one heretical sceptic. Here, drink this snake oil.

[Shad282]

Oh no, a wicked dis-believer, there's always one heretical sceptic. Here, drink this snake oil.

hahahahahahaha.. really.. everytime i see something or someone doing something i ll be like.. ohhhh maybe it is 3rd eye power or energy altering frequency or or or .... and end up with a person using some kind of techs and tricks. nowadays.. i ll only believe if i can do it

[Zhongyongdaoist]

First of all the story in the original post is not well written, and rather misleading, Brian posted some links taken from it here:
 

Some of the relevant links from the article...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10794112
http://zeniclinic.com/2011/04/dna/
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/07/01/scientists-witness-woman-with-exceptional-powers-of-mind-rapidly-grow-a-plant-from-a-seed/
http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/teleport.pdf

Which I am glad to see that everyone who has commented since then has followed and read.

Oh, I'm sorry, it doesn't look like anyone who has commented so far has read any of them, otherwise they might have come across:

Seeds induced to germinate rapidly by mentally projected 'qi energy' are apparently genetically altered

where they would have read the following:
 

Abstract: Mentally controlled qi energy can induce crop seeds to sprout and root for several cm within about 20 min. The RAPD method was used to compare treated groups of wheat and pea seeds and their controls using 11 selected primers. Seven primers amplified polymorphisms in wheat seeds and 5 in pea seeds. It was thought preliminarily that qi energy changed the structure of a germination-correlated gene site speeding up expression and advancing it in time.
. . .

Among the 11 primers selected, 10 had amplified products. Eight primers are shown in Figure 2. Different primers amplified 1 to 14 bands. The length of the DNA fragments were between 0.2 to 3.5 kb. Apparent polymorphism was amplified in wheat by 7 primers (OPF-02, OPE-02, OPG-09, OPF-06, OPF-11, OPT-14, OPJ-04); specific bands were also present in the products of 5 primers (OPE-02, OPG-09, OPF-11, OPT-14, OPJ-04) in pea. All the findings can be repeated, and the same results were obtained in each of the three repetitions of the experiment.

. . .

Seeds treated with qi energy can germinate and root for several cm within about 20 min. It takes control seeds at 23 [degrees] C a week to grow to the same length. This qi effect is impossible under normal rules of growth and development. According to earlier work, qi energy can change the structure of some cellular organs such as the mitochondria (Wang et al., 1998) and also influence the metabolism of cells (Chien et al., 1991; Zhang and Dong, 1998).

In the present study, qi increased the rate of cellular growth and division hundreds of times. This requires that the cells produce a great deal of energy within about 20 min. We observed the ultrastructure and the chemical location of ATPase (Ge et al., 1998). The expected results were obtained: qi induced a large increase of ATPase activity in the bud tip cells of the germinating wheat seeds. This can supply more energy during rapid cell division, growth and differentiation that occurs during accelerated germination. Enzymes are the products of genes, so we can infer that it is a germination-correlated gene that broke through the limits of time and space; that the structure of a promotor or regulatory region was changed, initiating expression in advance. RAPD analysis gives preliminary support to this deduction. Certainly, further and detailed research work must be done repeatedly in order to verify this hypothesis.
(Emphasis mine, ZYD)

Taken from a paper published in

The American Journal of Chinese Medicine
 
archived at another of the links which Brian gives here:
 
Paper archived at PubMed.gov
 
Which, kind of, puts the matter in a different context.
 
Anyone who wishes to continue to make comments like those above is certainly welcome to do so, but serious discussion of the real issues raised is certainly welcome.

[Brian]

First of all the story in the original post is not well written, and rather misleading, Brian posted some links taken from it here:

 

 

Which I am glad to see that everyone who has commented since then has followed and read.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, it doesn't look like anyone who has commented so far has read any of them, otherwise they might have come across:

 

Seeds induced to germinate rapidly by mentally projected 'qi energy' are apparently genetically altered

 

where they would have read the following:

 

 

Taken from a paper published in

 

The American Journal of Chinese Medicine

 

archived at another of the links which Brian gives here:

 

Paper archived at PubMed.gov

 

Which, kind of, puts the matter in a different context.

 

Anyone who wishes to continue to make comments like those above is certainly welcome to do so, but serious discussion of the real issues raised is certainly welcome.

<grin>

 

As they say, Reading is FUNdamental!

[Zhongyongdaoist]

<grin>

 

As they say, Reading is FUNdamental!

 

Informative too.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Obviously qi is inherent in all processes.

 

There is really nothing unusual about what the woman is purported to be doing.

 

Qi work modifying living processes.

 

Same kind of thing Bruce Lipton is talking about.

 

So - the techniques of developing this - people are interested?

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Karl]

A quality peer reviewing is obviously non-existent in some journals. For example, DOZENS of papers published in the Modern Physics Letters B with many reputable scientists on the Editorial Board http://www.worldscientific.com/worldscinet/mplb were accepted within 0-3 days, right after submission. Just few examples: Xin Huang and Shuai Dong, Mod. Phys. Lett. B 28, 1430010 (2014) [25 pages] Received: 20 July 2014 Accepted: 20 July 2014 Ikuo Ichinose and Tetsuo Matsui, Mod. Phys. Lett. B 28, 1430012 (2014) [33 pages] Received: 28 July 2014 Accepted: 29 July 2014 Xiaoshan Xu and Wenbin Wang, Mod. Phys. Lett. B 28, 1430008 (2014) [27 pages] Received: 16 July 2014 Accepted: 17 July 2014 At the same time, according to MPLB Peer Review Policy http://www.worldscientific.com/page/authors/peer-review-policy , “Papers will be refereed by at least 2 experts as suggested by the editorial board.” Is 1 day enough to review a 33 pages paper by 2 experts? Or can a 27 pages paper be reviewed within 24 hours? Just another case for a massive retraction...

[Zhongyongdaoist]

What is the Western equivalent of Chi? Aether (the 5th element)? Scientific equivalent?

 

“A bio photon (from the Greek βιο meaning “life” and φωτο meaning “light”), synonymous with ultra weak photon emission, low-level biological chemiluminescence, ultra weak bioluminescence, dark luminescence and other similar terms, is a photon of light emitted from a biological system and detected by biological probes as part of the general weak electromagnetic radiation of living biological cells.”?

I wish people with no knowledge about written Chinese would stop speculating about what “qi” is in Western terms. I am by no means fluent in Chinese, but I do know that individual characters are more like syllables and Chinese is not a language made up of monosyllabic words. While single syllables can have well defined meanings in Western languages, such as hot and cold, even these depending on context have very different meanings, “Don't touch that, it is hot, you'll burn yourself”, is very different from, “I know you really like Hip Hop, but it just leaves me cold”, someone not familiar with English usage might wonder if “Hip Hop” is a brand of air conditioner, though to an English speaker the metaphorical extension of the meaning of cold is made very clear by the context.

 

In Chinese the basic character 气, qì, has a meaning set that forms around such disparate ideas as “gas / air / smell / weather / to make angry / to annoy / to get angry / vital energy / qi”, of which the first and last are almost funny, the first in the sense in which I have read acupuncture texts in English published by Chinese publishers in which “qi” is routinely translated as “gas”, and then the funny notion that “qi”, a Western neologism for “vital energy” is a translation of “qi”, which in one sense of “qi” it is, but as should be clear “qi”, has many other meanings and there is a large vocabulary of Chinese words that include “qi” in them which have little to do with “vital energy” at all.  If the character "qi" occurs by itself its context will contribute to its interpretation, but as I said before there are a large number of multi-character Chinese terms which are basically as single words and which could correspond to traditional Western concepts and even some modern scientific ones.  I'll have more to say about that in a subsequent post.

 

Obviously qi is inherent in all processes.

Yes, depending on how you are going to define it, it is all over the place.

 

There is really nothing unusual about what the woman is purported to be doing.

Maybe in the circles in which you travel, but to many involved in biology, this would be quite incredible, and of course to anyone who is a doctrinaire materialist, which includes most biologists at this time, and to the few materialists around here, it would be impossible.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Yes, depending on how you are going to define it, it is all over the place."

-----

 

The relative potentials of YinYang at any point on any spectrum of energy or matter.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Zhongyongdaoist]

What is the Western equivalent of Chi? Aether (the 5th element)? Scientific equivalent?

In regard to its scientific equivalent, this is my current opinion:

 

a more common one, at least in the Western Europe would be the Latin "spiritus", spirit. This covers traditional names for qi as "vital force", beginning in the late Eighteenth Century we can find the idea reappearing as the "animal magnetism" of Mesmer, in the Nineteenth, as the "odic force" of von Reichenbach, and in the Twentieth Century as the "orgone" of Wilhelm Reich, in short "vital force" is a concept that simply will not "die".

 

However there is also a larger sense of qi as "substance" in the the Chinese lǐ/qì (理氣, Principle/"matter-energy") tradition which is very similar to Aristotle and this connection is something very useful to keep in mind for East/West comparison, as I have mentioned here:

 

While these are references to Aristotle's hylomorphism (Substance/form), the Chinese lǐ/qì (理氣, Principle/"matter-energy") cosmology that dates back at least to Hafeizi, who in turn credited it to his study of the Dao De Jing, is a close enough "twin" to Aristotle that a study of Aristotle is useful.

 

Call it what you want qi or spirit, the Chinese have long considered that all of creation is a condensation or refinement of one substance, what Aristotle would call "prime matter", in Greek hyle. But without the differentiation provided by "principle", in Aristotle "morphe" in Plato "idos", there would be no difference between heart and liver. Thus the importance of principle or form . . .

(Emphasis added, ZYD)

The closest modern conception to qi in this sense of “primary substance” would be the “energy of the vacuum”, though I personally like to think of it as a four dimensional “substance” that underlies Space/Time, Matter/Energy and to extend it to a biological context Consciousness/Body. This is based on simple Special Relativity and doesn't even involve us with “quantum weirdness” . . .

Which brings us to this for more traditional Western correspondences:

 

Aether would be closer to the Buddhist element of space/void, or the Hindu element of Akasha.

 

Something much closer to Qi would be the ancient Greek concept of Pneuma, which was translated as Spiritus by the Romans. Unfortunately the concept mostly died out with the rise of Christianity, instead of integrating and developing within Western society as it did in Eastern society - it was too closely tied to pagan philosophies.

 

Skip forward to the 18th century and there was a surge in interest in what was called "animal magnetism" following the the Mesmerism movement of Anton Mesmer, although it eventually died out. There was also Reichenbach's Odic Force in the middle of the 19th century, and then in the first half of the 20th century Wilhelm Reich wrote extensively about the concept, calling it Orgone.

 

So the idea isn't alien to Western society, but it seems to have always clashed with philosophies which have held a stronger grip on the Western conception of the world - first Christianity, and then later, post-Enlightenment scientific materialism.

 

 

That was my first thought as well - it's an interesting story though. (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

Aether would be closer to the Buddhist element of space/void, or the Hindu element of Akasha: While Aether has a long pre-history in Greek, the use of Aether as “fifth” element is specifically Aristotelian, and has to do with his theory of natural motion and in particular the natural motion of the “celestial spheres” which was a circular motion, so that the notion of circular motion is essential to the definition of Aether from Hellenistic times through the Nineteenth Century, where it survived because of such demonstrations of a naturally occurring circular motion that arises in magnetic and optical experiments, as the “ether” through which Maxwell's electromagnetic waves were supposed to propagate. This circular motion was discovered by the great experimental physicist Michael Faraday and first demonstrated in his:

 

Faraday's Homopolar motor

 

The Faraday Effect

 

Its association with “void” and akasha is an artifact of late Nineteenth and Early Twentieth century speculation by Occultists influenced by the Theosophical Society.

Something much closer to Qi would be the ancient Greek concept of Pneuma, which was translated as Spiritus by the Romans. Unfortunately the concept mostly died out with the rise of Christianity, instead of integrating and developing within Western society as it did in Eastern society - it was too closely tied to pagan philosophies.

 

Skip forward to the 18th century and there was a surge in interest in what was called "animal magnetism" following the the Mesmerism movement of Anton Mesmer, although it eventually died out. There was also Reichenbach's Odic Force in the middle of the 19th century, and then in the first half of the 20th century Wilhelm Reich wrote extensively about the concept, calling it Orgone. (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

It is not necessary to skip forward to the Eighteenth Century, because Patristic Christianity, the shared basis of both modern Roman and Orthodox Christianity did not stamp out Hellenistic Philosophy, but assimilated it, as I have outlined in my discussion on Agrippa and the religious views of his time here:

 

In order to understand Agrippa and what he is trying to do, you need to understand Western Christianity as Agrippa did, in other words the Roman Catholic Church as it existed in 1500, not 1600, certainly not 1800 and definitely not 2000, no in 1500, the Roman Catholic Church was very different and that is why Agrippa thought that he could write a defense of Magic that would redeem it in the eyes of Western Europe, that is why I said:

 

. . .

 

Because in 1500 the Roman Church was a Catholic church, a 'Universal' Church which unified both Pagan Philosophy and Hebrew Revelation, illuminated by the divine teaching of Christ and the New Covenant and the Doctrine and Ritual of the Church, or at least that is how it thought of itself. This is what the educated of Agrippa's time believed, this was not some esoteric doctrine, imported from afar, it was based on the Church Fathers from Justin Martyr on and affirmed by the Scholastics and reached its highest formulation in the thought of Marsilio Ficino. Talk about a beautiful mind, this man had it. (Emphasis in this paragraph added for this post, ZYD)

and in subsequent posts in that thread, which is a short enough thread that people can read the whole thing in an hour or less.

 

The notion of “spirit” is an important part of Agrippa's explanation of and defense of magic as I have dealt with here:

 

This important aspect is “the Spirit of the World”, one of the concepts that was to survive into neo-magical theory as Mesmer's animal magnetism, which was an important aspect of Nineteenth Century magical theory . . .

He chose “spirit” because it was an important part of the worldview of the time and not some obscure esoteric doctrine which might inspire the suspicion, and thus possible animosity, of his readers.

 

first Christianity, and then later, post-Enlightenment scientific materialism: It should be clear from my further posts on Agrippa cited above, that pre-Reformation Christianity was not hostile to "pagan" learning, but on the contrary maintained and preserved it. Even early Protestantism had a side of it which preserved aspects of the traditional worldview through the Seventeenth and into the early Eighteenth Century. It was the reintroduction and revival of Epicureanism into European thought, starting circa 1600, which is the root of what became "post-Elightentmant scientific materialism", which is a long story in itself.

 

Well this is a long post, but it at least outlines the various traditional Western correspondences to qi, from the hylo-morphism of Aristotle, where qi is primordial substance and thus part of everything, to its meaning of "vital force" or bio-energy, even its related senses of emotion are somewhat covered in this "spirited" discussion and into possible modern "scientific" correspondences.

[Wells]

.

Edited August 17, 2016 by spacester

[silent thunder]

hmm.  I like that.  The energy of human awareness.

while qi rolls off the tongue easier in conversation and is a fine word to describe that process... I like your attention to the perspective of what it 'is' vs just the idea of it.

 

I've always appreciated the Greek language for it's use of different words for nouns, one for the idea of the object when just discussing it... and another word was used, if you were holding the 'physical' object in your hands.

 

edit to add:  though I'm not sure why you hold, seemingly, the assumption that the 'Taoist paradigm's' concept of qi is some 'abstraction'.  It's never held that flavor to me.

Edited August 12, 2016 by silent thunder

[Wells]

.

Edited August 17, 2016 by spacester

[Zhongyongdaoist]

 

edit to add:  though I'm not sure why you hold, seemingly, the assumption that the 'Taoist paradigm's' concept of qi is some 'abstraction'.  It's never held that flavor to me.

 

 

Because the universal or rather external chi in taoist theory drives and forms the whole universe, but people usually don't directly experience this external chi that drives everything, they just experience the supposed results. Therefore I consider it to be a rather abstract concept.

Is there external chi at all? Is there even an external world? Who knows.

The internal chi which is directly experienced in chi cultivation is certainly not just an abstraction as it is experienced directly and concretely over the senses.

 

Thank you, explained this way it is certainly a clear enough distinction.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

This lady is apparently using Qi to grow a plant rapidly, something useful, I'd like to grow a garden fast, why wait say 5 years for apples when you can grow them in 1 month?

It makes me think of this

I was asking regarding science as there a documents showing that electricity can increase plant growth and fruit up to 125% +, so solar energy is a factor in plant grow and it seems electricity can boost this..and they were using electricity to successfully treat plants that had become diseased... reminds me of Chi and healing

So I am thinking Chi is some kind of electric energy? I know that air can have a subtle electric quality to it when your senses are pure/ refined you can feel this breathing. Say humans are electromagnetic, the food we eat gets converted into electrons. Plants are turning solar energy into stored electrons? so these electrons help in growth, healing... so I speculated Chi has something to do with this. Then Tesla was using high frequency electricity? for healing and increasing consciousness. I speculate this has something to do with the Sun also. Edited August 14, 2016 by Sionnach