Avoidance or Cultivation?

[Orion]

My question is personal, but also stems from general philosophy I suppose.

 

When life becomes intolerable, how do you distinguish between an objective need for external change (i.e. relocation, changing jobs, releasing friendships) and an increased obligation to practice inner cultivation?

 

In other words, how do we locate the fine balance between endurance and yielding?

 

When life seems unfavorable despite all of our best efforts, a very internal person may tell themselves that they are simply not doing enough inner work. In the reverse case, someone may cut and run whenever the going gets tough, blaming the outside world. Either extreme can be a problem. In the former, you may hold onto situations past their expiry date; in the latter, you may never stick around long enough to pass certain life trials of personal progression.

 

I have gone through periods in my life where I have to "break" everything... when things seem beyond fixing and a radical reinvention is necessary. On the other hand, I've stuck with certain things for a really long time, hoping and hoping that with more effort they'll get better.

 

I'm at a cross-roads right now where I'm having trouble distinguishing which medicine is needed. I've decided that, perhaps, the best way to examine the situation is to remove myself for a while. However, a choice needs to be made... otherwise the stagnation could be perpetual, and harmful.

[ChiForce]

All I can tell you is that your best advice would come from your mind alone, period.  If you are cultivating, your mind should tell you what to do (via dreams or visions or visitation).  Be mindful that a particular blockage in life is often needed to experience a cultivation breakthrough.    I know that full well.  Certain karmic action must be experienced to its full course.  That's how it is.... 

 

I don't know if you are married or have kids...  So, whatever you do, try to avoid creating more karma to those who are close to you.  Don't run off and to abandon your wife and kids and etc.... 

[Orion]

All I can tell you is that your best advice would come from your mind alone, period.  If you are cultivating, your mind should tell you what to do (via dreams or visions or visitation).  Be mindful that a particular blockage in life is often needed to experience a cultivation breakthrough.    I know that full well.  Certain karmic action must be experienced to its full course.  That's how it is.... 

 

I don't know if you are married or have kids...  So, whatever you do, try to avoid creating more karma to those who are close to you.  Don't run off and to abandon your wife and kids and etc.... 

 

I'm definitely in the waiting room, in the liminal space, in the transitory spot of not being sure what comes next, but that I am currently stagnated. And I 100% relate to what you're saying about creating more karma. A younger version of myself would act out, perhaps by traveling, or doing something external -- but I feel creating more psychodrama is not the answer. Creating more karma just creates more situations that need to be resolved. Yet sitting here is not productive either.

 

Just trying to trust that the next obvious thing will occur when the time is right, and that this current experience is temporary. I don't have much else to go on.

[Brian]

Listen.

 

Have you ever noticed that "listen" and "silent" are anagrams?

[C T]

Having experienced deep purging myself, i am able to state with some firmness that contemplating purposefully and insightfully on the 3 marks of existence helped to shine a bright light through all the seeming discord. The realisation that arose did nothing to change the externals but released, internally, all the knots of attachment and aversion. Then it became very clear that challenges and sufferings still exist but these are not mine, they are not my property, and certainly this 'I' does not exist in them, and does not not exist in events that unfold, and it became clearer still that the degree of agitation became infinitely more intense when, in the confusion, I had made the ignorant, and sometimes arrogant assumption that these events were all my doing when in fact the doings happens all on their own due to the highly complex nature of interdependent origination, within which lies all the causes of sufferings which are intimately linked to the false notions of a truly existing self, and also the cessations of same when the same false notion is seen for what it is.... false. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by C T

[Miffymog]

My current approach to this kind of situation is to persevere, but try to make very, very small improvements in it. The downside of this is that it can literally take years for any noticeable change. But this 'just keep swimming' method is very suited to my character and nature so it works, albeit slowly, for me.

[Karl]

My question is personal, but also stems from general philosophy I suppose.

 

When life becomes intolerable, how do you distinguish between an objective need for external change (i.e. relocation, changing jobs, releasing friendships) and an increased obligation to practice inner cultivation?

 

In other words, how do we locate the fine balance between endurance and yielding?

 

When life seems unfavorable despite all of our best efforts, a very internal person may tell themselves that they are simply not doing enough inner work. In the reverse case, someone may cut and run whenever the going gets tough, blaming the outside world. Either extreme can be a problem. In the former, you may hold onto situations past their expiry date; in the latter, you may never stick around long enough to pass certain life trials of personal progression.

 

I have gone through periods in my life where I have to "break" everything... when things seem beyond fixing and a radical reinvention is necessary. On the other hand, I've stuck with certain things for a really long time, hoping and hoping that with more effort they'll get better.

 

I'm at a cross-roads right now where I'm having trouble distinguishing which medicine is needed. I've decided that, perhaps, the best way to examine the situation is to remove myself for a while. However, a choice needs to be made... otherwise the stagnation could be perpetual, and harmful.

There is no answer to that. It's life, pure and simple. We can do our best, but things can still go wrong and we cannot psychologically armour ourselves against our own reaction to it. I've tried to explain this more than once, but people seem deaf to the message. Reality is not only external, but internal. If you get sick, or lose your home, or a loved one, then it hurts a lot, it may hurt so much that we are dragged down into terrible depression and anxieties that are impossible to shake off. At these times it's tempting to believe that all that is required is more practice, but then when we are feeling down it's difficult to do any practices. This makes one feel worse than if we had not practised at all, it adds a further feeling of failure on top of the current one. Everything that we did, tried, thought falls to dust and we feel impotent and rudderless.

 

I've been a manic depressive most of my life. I practised intensely for several years and believed that I had found a beautiful firm of balance, until a situation arose which proved to me that believing that practices provide perfect protection was just another kind of delusion. It's like believing exercise will cure terminal cancer. Practices can be a component of stability, but they aren't a solution, they don't cure you of feeling bad, just as you should hope they don't cure you of feeling good.

 

They say 'any port in a storm' and sometimes there is no obvious path through a sense of internal strife, there is no philosophy or practice that will straighten us out, we just have to work through it the best we can. Friends, family and spouse can help. Time is the healer. If practices help, then do that.

[Shad282]

Observe your thoughts.

 

observing your thoughts would allow you to discover what your mind is trying to telling and to discover the illusion that some thoughts are creating and draining your energy and decreasing your focus.

 

At the end, no matter what choice you will make, or action you will do... you will encounter the same energy and the same lesson but in a different form. A lot of people think that choosing between 2 options will eventually lead to different changes in life.. but actually they are the same energetically but different in forms. so no matter you do, u are always on the right track but it looks different. 

I hope my answer helps. 

[Aetherous]

I'd say for someone who is generally internal and a cultivator (which I'd definitely say you are), they're already doing that constantly and will tend to be hard on themselves...a balanced approach for that person is to make the external change. Sometimes it becomes imbalanced to cultivate at the expense of oneself. Take care of yourself, too, and know that you aren't the impetuous/flighty type who abandons everything the moment it becomes challenging...that it was simply time to take the reigns of your life. Sometimes cultivation requires us to take charge of external situations, too.

Something else to think about...

If you've aimed for a goal in your life, or have a vision for what you want your life to be, and are working toward that, keep going toward it. That's when cultivating and internal change is better. Lets say if you decided to start an entrepreneurial endeavor in a certain city for a good reason...just because some things are off, like you've made some bad friends, doesn't mean it's a good idea to abandon the city. Make the internal change, and look for the positive aspects of being there, etc.

But if these situations have nothing to do with how you envision your life to be, and you're still working toward your goals, or would perhaps even be closer to your goals if you made an external change, then make the external change. Lets say you wanted a good relationship, but the person you're dating is overbearing, abusive, and high maintenance...they're also impacting your ability to accomplish your goals in your business endeavor...so, cut the cord of that relationship and find one that more suits your vision.

I hope these ideas make sense in relation to what you're experiencing. The examples I gave are just because I have no idea about the details of your issue.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Aetherous

[RiverSnake]

When ever there is external friction or suffering in ones life, it's been my experience that usually your running up against blockages in your system. Actively dissolve through them.

[manitou]

When I'm in a place where I'm asking myself 'what should I do?', the first thing I answer to myself is 'what would happen if I did nothing?'  

 

It depends on the type of situation you're talking about.  If you're in a depressed state of ennui and rendered immobile for some reason (I can get into that one, I struggle with depression as well), then the only thing to do is start with baby steps and get yourself moving in some direction, even if it's wrong.

 

But if your indecision stems from a situation that has outgrown its usefulness and all parties involved would be better off moving on, then the 'do nothing' dynamic works really well.  We have a way of not wanting to rock the boat, even if the the boat is floating in a fouled pond, and we'll contort ourselves to enable the situation to remain intact, even if it's unhealthy and unnatural.  This is when wu-wei works best.  This is when 'Do nothing' is appropriate....to stop contorting to adapt to a bad situation.

 

One must step back from the situation and see it for what it really is...to see why you are manifesting the situation (which you are) and to see what emotional payoff that has been outgrown is in play.  Then, at some point, stop reacting in the same way.    Stop buying into the dynamic; stop acting codependent with another person just for the sake of keeping the broken machine running.  Instead, just stop.  Stop enabling.  Stop making excuses for things.  And take full responsibility for your part in the dynamics.  Understand what it is that you no longer need.

 

Let the chips fall where they may.  Then the beautiful dynamics of the Dao come into play.  If we're in there stirring the pot and trying to keep things aloft as they are, the dynamics of the Dao are not able to work.  We have to get out of the way.  This takes courage, and it takes honesty - because the truth of the matter will present itself to you, one day at a time.  and to look another in the eyes, one who has shared our path for years, and say that it is no longer working - that takes true courage.  

 

And the funny thing is, that these things are never just one way.  Often the other party will sigh a sigh of relief, having felt the same way for a long time.  It's breaking the routine that's the hard part.  and then the growth will start - for both parties.

[Orion]

I hope these ideas make sense in relation to what you're experiencing. The examples I gave are just because I have no idea about the details of your issue.

 

I could provide more context by telling the story I guess. I just thought I would condense the story to the essence of the issue I'm experiencing. I'm willing though. What do you think?

[manitou]

We wouldn't be in the dark, and someone's suggestion might be helpful - 

[Orion]

Been quite ill for a couple of years now, to a disabling degree. It has limited my life and opportunities. I have tried to make the best of it, especially this summer, and have succeeded in some ways, not in others.

 

Most of my friendships have fallen away. People have progressed in different directions, and being stuck where I am due to poor health has left me in the dust in many ways. The friends I still have are experiencing new and profound beginnings -- again I seem stuck in the waiting room.

 

I'm very unsatisfied with where I'm currently living. It is hard to cultivate a peaceful spiritual practice here. I live in a city where the housing market is crazy and the population has densified greatly in the past few years. It has become a small, dense noisy place, with all of the accompanying human dramas. Problem is, the market has become untennable, so if I want to move, I have to move out of the city entirely.

 

I tried living in a small country town for a time. I loved the natural setting - something that I'm really craving as part of my next step - but the social and economic isolation was brutal. I have tried looking for camping spots this summer to create my own shorter retreats of sorts, but literally every campground in this province is booked solid for the rest of summer. Because of the increased population, competition is way higher.

 

I had a healing practice for others, but I don't have the energy to do that right now. It drains me significantly and my body is spent. My own healing progresses slowly because, due to the population issue, resources here are more scarce. Good healers cost money, and the modern medical system doesn't know anything about holistic medicine.

 

If I had my health, I would just sell all my stuff and live a nomadic existence for a time. My desire to detach from this way of life is very strong, but due to health and limiting factors it doesn't seem like I have an out. There has been a great deal of anxiety due to feeling trapped... can't stay but can't go either. I have cultivated contentment and positivity as much as possible, but it seems that meaningful action is now called for -- and yet, there isn't an obvious pathway of action to take.

 

I have a lot of free time, but it's in a location that causes significant stress. I know that the current configuration isn't working, but I don't know how to break it. If I just did that nomadic thing, my body would run into problems and I'd have no refuge.

 

So you see the dilemma. It seems like continuing to endure is not the answer but I don't see an out or a way to transform this.

 

People keep telling me to be patient, that the next thing will come. Well it's been 2+ years of this waiting game and my creative intuition is still not yielding fruit. If all that's needed is a perspective shift, then I welcome it, but I can only meditate so much on it.

[ChiForce]

I don't know but have you found out how to heal your disability?  Is it physical?  Are you taking certain medications which may be producing some side effects?

 

I am not sure if you have a spiritual problem. 

[Aetherous]

It seems to me like moving to a better city is what you want, perhaps living in a small town in a natural setting that's a short drive to this better city. There are many places that are 10-20 minutes out from a large city.

 

Perhaps the stuck feeling, of being in a place you can't stand to be, was one cause of those health issues you've experienced recently. So, if it were me, I'd place a high priority on finding the best place to live. Maybe everything will work more smoothly after that.

I had an idea...go to a place where you can see the stars clearly, look up there and feel how relaxing it is to be under them, and ask for guidance and help. That can make the path you're supposed to be on much more apparent. Then it's simply a matter of deciding and doing.

And I think...if you have a strong desire, it's good to live in alignment with it, with your self and heart, rather than to live unable to fulfill it. It's probably good to either live out the desire, or else cultivate other desires more strongly than that one. It is possible to change what we desire.

Anyway...I have a feeling you'll soon turn this around. Even in your first post it sounds to me like you've already decided. There's a sense of relief I felt when reading "radical reinvention is necessary". And in your last post where you shared the specifics, it sounds like you already know the problem and thus, the solution.

[Orion]

I do daily inner work around this issue. Prayers for guidance, and focused intentions. What I need is a place to go to. There is nothing in my life that is beyond my reach once my determination and intention are honed upon it. I just need to know "the thing" and feel it in my heart centre, and boom, I'm off. That is the only missing piece right now.

 

But it's the chicken and the egg... wait for "the thing" to come and show me the way out, or try to make little temporary in-roads into other locales that may provide me with the brief new input necessary to kickstart something else.

 

I also agree that the health issue may be a result of where I am, and leaving will resolve it. That intuition will take a whole other level of courage to manifest, only because if it's not true, then I could have a real calamity on my hands if my conditions flares in a place where I don't have resources to deal with it.

 

On the other hand... my health condition is part of a trial. Maybe I'm just framing it that way, but it feels real. It will make me a better healer to crack this code, and it will open other doorways. In the mean time, I have some decisions to make.

 

Should I just pray for guidance?

Edited August 15, 2016 by Orion

[Jetsun]

From the mystic perspective life is giving you exactly what you need to awaken / deepen in your awakening.

 

But if you would like a helping hand I can do a distance Vortex healing for you if you are interested?

[manitou]

Hi Orion,

 

This was recently posted on our forum.  The words seemed to pierce deeply into me, because the timing was perfect. I ran them off and taped them to my mirror.   Maybe they're pertinent for you too at this point in your life.

 

 

 

'To serve a purpose, you must be of service.  To be of service, you must become useful.  To become useful, you must discover your uselessness.  To discover your uselessness you must choose to have no choice.

 

There is a thoroughness in the process of living and dying and being reborn which cannot be comprehended within the confines of a mind that clings to this life alone.  It does indeed have a definite aim which is all too clear within the mind that is beyond this life alone.

 

To resolve the eternal within the temporary and the temporary within the eternal and bridge all the connections between them is no small task, no small endeavor.

 

Humanity as a species has its own agenda which follows a lifeline appropriate for a species.  Your internal being has an agenda which follows a timeline appropriate for such a being."

[doc benway]

In my view, our problems are in us - not in the outside world.

Changing jobs, partners, locations, and so on, does not change the one who is having a problem.

We can change the external circumstances and still struggle with the new situation.

 

So when I am struggling, I try to look back at the one who is struggling.

Who is that? What role or set of expectations does that represent in my life?

Struggle is an indication that a specific identity in me is clashing with the way things are.

 

The one who is trying to figure things out is the very same one who is creating the struggle.

Therefore thinking generally does not provide the solution.

Better to let go of that expectation and create space and silence.

In that space, the answer will naturally arise when it is ripe. 

When I trust in that process - the answers come. 

[Orion]

In my view, our problems are in us - not in the outside world.

Changing jobs, partners, locations, and so on, does not change the one who is having a problem.

We can change the external circumstances and still struggle with the new situation.

 

So when I am struggling, I try to look back at the one who is struggling.

Who is that? What role or set of expectations does that represent in my life?

Struggle is an indication that a specific identity in me is clashing with the way things are.

 

The one who is trying to figure things out is the very same one who is creating the struggle.

Therefore thinking generally does not provide the solution.

Better to let go of that expectation and create space and silence.

In that space, the answer will naturally arise when it is ripe. 

When I trust in that process - the answers come. 

 

Well that is the very crux of my question. If someone is torturing you, you can do all the inner cultivation you want, but maybe getting away from the torture is a good idea -- if you can. I'm not saying that crafting a life around avoidance of suffering is realistic... but sometimes it really is the outside world that's the problem.

 

I appreciate your approach as it's my base nature, to be more yin. But sometimes excessive yin is dangerous. It creates acceptance of circumstances that could be otherwise transformed.

 

My question isn't whether yielding or action are always appropriate, but how to distinguish when it is best to apply one or the other. The answer seems to be, to trust my own mind / intuition. At least from what people have said so far.

[liminal_luke]

Hi Orion,

 

I´d hit it with everything you got.  Sounds like this situation is really bothering you and you need some sort of hopeful change, some relief, soon.  Nothing about internal work implies that we need to sit and stew in a situation that isn´t working for us.  And, likewise, no external change will render inner growth redundant or unnecessary.  There may be times when a person naturally gravitates toward one or another approach, but I´d get out of the either/or mindset.  Do both.

 

You know how it feels to be a kid standing on a rocky outcropping on the riverbank, deciding whether or not to step off that ledge and fall into the icy cold water below? The dance of fear and hesitation as you considered whether or not to take that leap into the unknown.  And then you jump...

 

(PS. Please make sure the river isn´t running too fast, the rocky ledge not too high. I´m not advocating recklessness.  Just a gentle jump that will land you somewhere new.  It might be someplace better or worse.  Either way, know that you are strong enough to make your way.) 

Edited August 16, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Aetherous]

Should I just pray for guidance?

 

Yes.

[doc benway]

Well that is the very crux of my question. If someone is torturing you, you can do all the inner cultivation you want, but maybe getting away from the torture is a good idea -- if you can. I'm not saying that crafting a life around avoidance of suffering is realistic... but sometimes it really is the outside world that's the problem.

 

I appreciate your approach as it's my base nature, to be more yin. But sometimes excessive yin is dangerous. It creates acceptance of circumstances that could be otherwise transformed.

 

My question isn't whether yielding or action are always appropriate, but how to distinguish when it is best to apply one or the other. The answer seems to be, to trust my own mind / intuition. At least from what people have said so far.

 

I agree with your conclusion.

Neither yielding nor action are always appropriate, there must be an appropriate reaction to the situation at hand.

One needs to trust something but the mind may not be the best choice - the mind is confused, it is the one creating the problem in the first place. 

 

Both the Daoists and Dzogchenpas talk quite a bit about non-action.

This does not mean to not act. it does not mean to always yield.

It means that we know how to get out of our own way. 

It means to trust in the space, the openness, the silence, that which is present when there is quiet and stillness.

 

When we can get out of the way, whatever must happen will happen. 

Action occurs but it is not "me" doing it, it is something much bigger than the thought that claims the title "me."

The Daoists would point to the Dao and the natural flow of things as the optimal agency of action.

The Dzogchenpa would point to the nature of mind (not mind).

 

I agree with Luke, it sounds like you know something must be done.

I also go through the same struggle often. One must make a decision but how to do that?

We can get all twisted up with judgement and choices... it can be excruciating.

 

What I am trying to say is that when you are really ready to do something about the circumstances around you, it will happen.

Best to try not to force it prematurely and equally important not to get in your way when the time is ripe.

I don't think I have better advice other than to see you need to trust that you will know what to do when the time is right and let go of the inner commentary and debate for a bit.

That very inner struggle is what blocks the spontaneity and creativity that is needed to act appropriately and in a timely fashion.

 

I hope that makes some sense.

[manitou]

I think we create our own comfort (or dis-comfort) zones because of past conditioning.  If we have a need to be tortured, it's because that's our comfort zone for some reason.  To merely spring free of one situation will take us into another situation that produces the same comfort zone - although the circumstances may seem different, the faces may change, the locations may change.  We are manifesting torture for some reason.

 

I think this is why wu-wei is the way to work out of it.  To stop the dynamic while you're in the dynamic - not to run from it, because it will manifest again.  Stop reacting.  Ask ourselves 'what is it I'm afraid is going to happen if I don't do 'this'? (Whatever 'this' is).  Walking on eggs?  Stifling our tongue in some way? Tiptoe-ing around another so they don't get mad?   I say this is the time for total honesty with self and others.  Then, when the situation alleviates itself (either by changes in both personalities or by the relationship crumbling), we will have stopped the need in ourself to manifest the situation in the first place.

 

Just be totally honest, express your heart when it wants expression, express your mind, express your anger.  Be absolutely true to yourself in every single interaction with that person.  When you feel a wave of fear, or your stomach churning, these are your clues that this is a particular dynamic arising that you will need courage to get through with total honesty.  Just do it.  The relationship will crumble away, or it will change for the better.  It takes more courage for total honesty with someone we're in close configuration with than anything.  Don't be afraid of the 'Yes, but's....' or the 'what if's'.  But do it here and now, or it will rear it's head some place else with someone else.  Get rid of that puppy.

Edited August 16, 2016 by manitou