Deception was my job

[ralis]

There is no place for racism or bigotry, but that must apply equally. This piece was written by an Israeli Jew (in a leading Jewish magazine) to highlight the lionisation of Jews which has made it almost impossible for people to criticise their own part in historical atrocities. This sets an equally dangerous precedent in every group, race or culture. Once a group is liberated through victim hood, they are free to act in ways that often encourage a blind eye through the suppression of criticism.

 

It was a hard hitting title, I balked and wouldn't read it, but it was the actual title from the pen of a Jewish writer (I don't know if you can be exactly racist against ones own race ?). I think it asks important questions that require light. I thought it was just another hideous Jewish hit piece by an anti-Semite, but it isn't. I even had several fairly heated discussion with Sionnach by PM in which we disagreed, so, it wasn't some casual thought process. I still don't like the title, but, that wasn't Sionnachs fault.

 

Shutting down free speech is far on tough subjects is racist if it denies the truth that every class, creed, race, religion, group, sex, colour or sexual orientation contains good and bad eggs. We cannot exclude any group or individual form historical and ethical analysis, or those that get their mouths down shut are the victims of inverted racism.

 

Instead of simply having a knee jerk PC reaction to someone's opinion, why not open it out, make fun of the bigots and racists, show them for what they are by all means, but slapping a gag and handcuffs on dissenters gets us no where. Why not ask Sionnach what he means, why he posted, get a dialogue going, don't go looking for the dungeon and rack the moment your fuse is tripped.

 

I believe this is why the mods allowed it to continue, but I don't think we can let it continue if it's just going to be calls for punishment. If you say you like to use critical thinking then debate it fairly and calmly.

 

Say what you want, but so called free speech in some cases can be inflammatory and in this case it is. One is not allowed to say whatever comes to mind without understanding the consequences. That title has consequences! That is critical thinking whether you approve or not!

[Karl]

Say what you want, but so called free speech in some cases can be inflammatory and in this case it is. One is not allowed to say whatever comes to mind without understanding the consequences. That title has consequences! That is critical thinking whether you approve or not!

What actually are the consequences of free speech Ralis ? That someone might be offended ? The consequences of not having free speech are far more dangerous. Speech is just speech, better words than actions in conflict, that's why we have language so we can communicate. I think free speech is dangerous to you for some reason.

 

Did you take note that the exact title is by an Israeli Jew, in a leading Jewish publication ?

[Golden Dragon Shining]

The Cambodian Genocide refers to the attempt of Khmer Rouge party leader “Pol Pot” to nationalize and centralize the peasant farming society of Cambodia virtually overnight, in accordance with the Chinese Communist agricultural model. This resulted in the gradual devastation of over 25% of the country’s population in just three short years.

 

Cambodia, a country in Southeast Asia, is less than half the size of California, with its present day capital in Phnom Penh. In 1953, Cambodia gained its independence from France, after nearly 100 years of colonialist rule.

 

http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/cambodian-genocide

 

 

Martin Latsis, chief of the Ukrainian Cheka, stated in the newspaper Red Terror:

 

Do not look in the file of incriminating evidence to see whether or not the accused rose up against the Soviets with arms or words. Ask him instead to which class he belongs, what is his background, his education, his profession. These are the questions that will determine the fate of the accused. That is the meaning and essence of the Red Terror. — Martin Latsis, Red Terror

 

The first official announcement of a Red Terror, published in Izvestiya, "Appeal to the Working Class" on 3 September 1918, called for the workers to "crush the hydra of counterrevolution with massive terror! ... anyone who dares to spread the slightest rumor against the Soviet regime will be arrested immediately and sent to concentration camp".

 

To overcome our enemies we must have our own socialist militarism. We must carry along with us 90 million out of the 100 million of Soviet Russia's population. As for the rest, we have nothing to say to them. They must be annihilated. - Grigory Zinoviev, 1918^[12]

 

This is why free speech is so important.

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Sionnach

[Golden Dragon Shining]

There was an American Irish Priest who uncovered horrible abuses of Irish children in Catholic/Jesuit schools. He encouraged Irish parents to firstly not send their children to these schools. These schools for whatever reason had government support and new "anti-blasphemy" laws were written to protect the abusers.
 

Fr. Flanagan warned Irish Church about abuse
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/boys-town-founder-fr-flanagan-warned-irish-church-about-abuse-46390952-237644371.html

"Monsignor Edward Joseph Flanagan, founder of “Boys Town” made famous by the Spencer Tracy movie, was a lone voice in condemning Ireland’s industrial schools back in the 1940s and he was viciously castigated by church and government for doing so."

 

Unfortunately the over 350,800 children suspected to be in Catholic child mass graves sites in three countries paled in number to Catholic Priest sex abuse victims across the globe. As of November 2013 over ten million Catholic Priest child sex abuse cases have been documented as shown here. These 10,077,574 cases represented a mere fraction of total crimes committed. Only an estimated 10% of sex abuse victims were thought to speak out about their sex abuse and just 10% of those cases saw the inside of a court room.
 
Amnesty has been offered to citizens or employees of the Crown of England and Vatican willing to give sworn testimony or evidence that leads to the prosecution of top Vatican and government officials who may have committed crimes.  http://childabuserecovery.com/catholic-mass-grave-sites-of-350800-missing-children-found-in-ireland-spain-canada/

Edited August 18, 2016 by Sionnach

[gendao]

Le's go further back...  Who plagiarized Sumerian mythology, repackaged it as the Old Testament, and how much global destruction was then wreaked over millenia using its ideology as justification?  Talk about a religion used for mind control!

Asians are bad drivers.
Blacks are gangsters and thieves.
Arabs are terrorists.
 
And so on.  Some stereotypes really are best forgotten.

Or first factually considered, and then either proven or disproven...  For example, as far as driving fatalities, Native Americans & Whites are actually the worst drivers since they have the highest drunk driving rates.  Asians actually have the least driving fatalities.

The most reliable information comes from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which has recorded traffic fatalities by race since 1999 (also providing in the process a record of American bureaucracy’s often awkward struggle to label ethnic groups consistently). The evidence shows that driving accidents are the leading cause of death for all races ages 4 to 34. That said, in 2006 (for example) the crash fatality rates for the Hispanic, white, and African American populations were very similar—12.27, 12.50, and 12.31 deaths per 100,000 people, respectively. The real differences show up with Asians—whose fatality rate was only 4.00 deaths per 100,000—and Native Americans, whose rate was more than twice the national average, at 31.17.

 

Much of this has to do with alcohol use. Asians consistently have lower rates of heavy and binge drinking than any other minority population, while those rates among Native Americans are much higher. (For the record, whites have easily the highest rates of overall alcohol use.) As a consequence, more than half of Native American driving fatalities occurred when the driver was inebriated. For Asians, this number was barely above 20 percent.

Of course, fatal crashes are just 1 part of driving skill.  There's also minor infractions, road rage, etc..  But, fatal maneuvers are arguably the most important one.

[Geof Nanto]

I've browsed this thread and can see nothing in it that adds to discussion on the themes that Dao Bums promotes. Simply out of interest in keeping some integrity to the focus of this forum, I'd like to see the moderators acting more strongly in deleting such topics. There is plenty of space on the web in other  forums for such views to be aired. 

[Karl]

I've browsed this thread and can see nothing in it that adds to discussion on the themes that Dao Bums promotes. Simply out of interest in keeping some integrity to the focus of this forum, I'd like to see the moderators acting more strongly in deleting such topics. There is plenty of space on the web in other  forums for such views to be aired.

 

This is one such place. Stop acting like a dictator. This is in 'off topic' there are plenty of dedicated threads to specific practices and philosophical discussions.

 

I think it adds immeasurably to an understanding of true equality. It's exactly what's needed to preserve free speech. One of the most beautiful things is that it survives at all. Strike one for the power of light over darkness.

[Geof Nanto]

@ Karl

 

One of the main objections I have to your propagation of Randism on this site is simply the way you insist on ramming it down our throats whenever the smallest opportunity presents itself. You come across as someone who’s been swallowed by a philosophy, and lives in a world where concepts are like gods. That suggests to me – and I may well be wrong – that you’re hiding from your own inner emptiness; armouring yourself with a strong philosophy against vulnerabilities. Perhaps you’re holding on to rational knowledge like a crucifix to ward off your fear of losing yourself – that illusionary wholeness you so prize – in the vastness of mystery? 

 

Further, whilst a small amount of Rand may well be a good thing, such a strongly political agenda is, in my opinion, out of place on this site. And I don't think Dao Bums needs to be a place where someone like you who repeatedly misrepresents meditation and mysticism is given a free reign to air their views. Whilst I welcome informed critique, the strongly voiced and largely ignorant opinion of someone who opposes such a life path and advocates political action is best discussed in other more appropriate forums. 

 

As to your political agenda, I say go for it. Explore it to the full. Do you have your own website? If not, why not?   I can see how such views as Rand’s are a necessary counterbalance to the excesses of the strands of humanism that dominate contemporary society. There are aspects of your philosophy - but not your bigotry - that I somewhat agree with, though your binary black or white world is a tad simplistic for me. I’m not a great believer in the battle of good against evil – but from that perspective I’d say we all are a mixture of both. Hence, the battle is not primarily an external one, but an internal one against our inner shadow – our own hidden darkness.  

 

There you go – I’ve given you plenty to rally against! – all of it sincerely meant.  

Edited August 19, 2016 by Yueya

[Taomeow]

Really? This thread is back?

 

Butter me on both sides and call me a pancake.  But don't call me a daobum.  Too embarrassing. 

[ralis]

What actually are the consequences of free speech Ralis ? That someone might be offended ? The consequences of not having free speech are far more dangerous. Speech is just speech, better words than actions in conflict, that's why we have language so we can communicate. I think free speech is dangerous to you for some reason.

 

Did you take note that the exact title is by an Israeli Jew, in a leading Jewish publication ?

History is replete with the consequences of so called free speech. If you don't' understand that by now, I am not going to lecture you.

 

Classic examples of free speech run amok. Hate speech! Speech that lead to the mass murder of millions.

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by ralis

[Karl]

@ Karl

 

One of the main objections I have to your propagation of Randism on this site is simply the way you insist on ramming it down our throats whenever the smallest opportunity presents itself. You come across as someone who’s been swallowed by a philosophy, and lives in a world where concepts are like gods. That suggests to me – and I may well be wrong – that you’re hiding from your own inner emptiness; armouring yourself with a strong philosophy against vulnerabilities. Perhaps you’re holding on to rational knowledge like a crucifix to ward off your fear of losing yourself – that illusionary wholeness you so prize – in the vastness of mystery?

 

Further, whilst a small amount of Rand may well be a good thing, such a strongly political agenda is, in my opinion, out of place on this site. And I don't think Dao Bums needs to be a place where someone like you who repeatedly misrepresents meditation and mysticism is given a free reign to air their views. Whilst I welcome informed critique, the strongly voiced and largely ignorant opinion of someone who opposes such a life path and advocates political action is best discussed in other more appropriate forums.

 

As to your political agenda, I say go for it. Explore it to the full. Do you have your own website? If not, why not? I can see how such views as Rand’s are a necessary counterbalance to the excesses of the strands of humanism that dominate contemporary society. There are aspects of your philosophy - but not your bigotry - that I somewhat agree with, though your binary black or white world is a tad simplistic for me. I’m not a great believer in the battle of good against evil – but from that perspective I’d say we all are a mixture of both. Hence, the battle is not primarily an external one, but an internal one against our inner shadow – our own hidden darkness.

 

There you go – I’ve given you plenty to rally against! – all of it sincerely meant.

 

It's not my post. I didn't start this subject I merely commented on it. I don't ram anything down your throat. I have neither the power, or means to do it, neither would I attempt to do such a thing. You have the choice to read or not, that's free, no compulsion. However, you need to re-read your own words and note them well. "This book shouldn't be in this library, it's heretical, burn it". There are plenty of places for you in the mass of other forums, I do not seek your expulsion, I welcome you comments as long as they expand consciousness, but yours do not, they attempt to minimise.

 

 

Ask yourself what you fear in your own philosophy, what makes it so weak that your only recourse denies argumentation, but instead requires banishment, silence and gagging of any philosophy which opposes it ? Whilst I will consistently argue for free speech and expression of ideas regardless of my acceptance or rejection of those ideas, your ideology requires a rejection of ideas and freedom.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Karl

[Karl]

History is replete with the consequences of so called free speech. If you don't' understand that by now, I am not going to lecture you.

Classic examples of free speech run amok. Hate speech! Speech that lead to the mass murder of millions.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r496UPraKvkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l0tr7QzQAMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRvafKSJ1ls

The power to oppose it, to speak out against it, that is free speech. It is not free speech if one group is allowed to speak whilst the other is dragged off and shot, or has his tongue metaphorically removed. Had free speech been possible then none of that need to have happened, a tyrant need not have come to power, but, political systems offer levers of force unless they are delimited. The first interview posted was by a Russian dissident, a defector. The point is not to listen to me, gratifying though it is to be thought of so highly ;-) but to listen to the video interview that was posted by Sionnach, discuss that interview and leave me alone to have my breakfast in peace ;-)

[Golden Dragon Shining]

HATE_SPEECH! HERETIC! WITCH! BLASPHEMER! COUNTERREVOLUTIONARY! Cries the devil.

Christian love and tolerance, misery and bloodshed. Communist love and tolerance, misery and bloodshed.

Capitalist democracy and freedom, misery and bloodshed. 

"The concept of "war is peace" is used today by the United States of America and NATO, when they engage in the so called "preemptive wars." The term itself is a paradox, because one cannot start a war in order to prevent it."

Edited August 19, 2016 by Sionnach

[Karl]

Interesting insight from an ex British trot Peter Hitchens which mentions the dangers of Gramscian leftism

 

 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/take-it-from-an-ex-trot-labour-neednt-worry-about-trotskyists/

 

 

Sent from my iPad

[thelerner]

HATE_SPEECH! HERETIC! WITCH! BLASPHEMER! COUNTERREVOLUTIONARY! Cries the devil.

 

Christian love and tolerance, misery and bloodshed. Communist love and tolerance, misery and bloodshed.

 

Capitalist democracy and freedom, misery and bloodshed. 

 

"The concept of "war is peace" is used today by the United States of America and NATO, when they engage in the so called "preemptive wars." The term itself is a paradox, because one cannot start a war in order to prevent it."

okay.. so you're okaying hate speech by putting it together with 'Witch Blasphemer and Counterrevolutionary?  Only a Devil would label something as hate speech?   Great rationalization, it gives permission for spewing all kinds of bigoted, incendiary, racism doesn't it?   From that sarcastic(?) point of view only the Devil would dare accuse a person of saying hateful things.

 

Great way to justify hate speech.   There's a modern current to justify hate speech as merely Politically Incorrect.  Giving cover to call groups rapists and criminals and hide smugly behind Politically Incorrect label. 

 

There's a line, and it can be misused, but at the extremes, left and right there are nasty fringe bigots jumping on the political parties to voice hate speech. 

[Karl]

There is no such thing as hate speech just as there isn't any thought crime. How can it be measured ? It can't. One mans hate speech is another mans genuine, belief of a moral good.

 

There is speech and speech should always be free.

 

Hate speech was at the heart of soviet oppression. It was initially resisted, but waves of useful idiots in the guise of Marxist academics and liberal politicians eventually poured the same soviet poison into the West.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

What nonsense. See the examples I gave, it isn't so difficult.

25% of the Cambodian population was murdered by Communists. Anyone who disagreed with these actions/ this ideology was accused of hate speech etc things like that, hence the devil cries.

For some reason a few here don't want Communism and related to be discussed, they are using the same Communist tactics, knowingly or not.

Are you using hate speech against me to silence this thread? are you a bigot? 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Sionnach

[Karl]

What nonsense. See the examples I gave, it isn't so difficult.

25% of the Cambodian population was murdered by Communists. Anyone who disagreed with these actions/ this ideology was accused of hate speech etc things like that, hence the devil cries.

For some reason a few here don't want Communism and related to be discussed, they are using the same Communist tactics, knowingly or not.

Are you using hate speech against me to silence this thread? are you a bigot?

 

Exactly, a highly elastic term devoid of anything measurable and the basis for allowing evil to propagate unfettered.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

As they masquerade as the righteous ones ha.

[ilumairen]

There is much masquerading...

[Golden Dragon Shining]

Yes

[gendao]

It's like there's been a collective mind swipe, and implanted fear of remembering...  Because the eventual vast implications might be too big, as they lead back to the very origin and history of humankind.  Ignorance is bliss, except with nagging doubts pushed to the back of the mind.

And these memories seem to keep resurfacing at the fringes of our collective consciousness.  Some uphold these as hidden truths, others deny them as "conspiracy theory false memories."  Who really knows, maybe the answer lies somewhere in between?
 

Like what if...

Ra, in becoming the one and only God, the one and only father, was known as "Ra Ka," which literally means "father essence" the ultimate father.  In approximately 6000 BC, Ra turned over the money to Ka, suffix -M (means offspring, "children of").  However, Ka-M, eventually became KaM.  But "Kam," was an ancient word for "shield."

The administration of the empire was turned over to the Ra-K-pharaohs.  And the wealth of the empire was given to the Ra-Kam or the Ra-shield.  In 6000 BC, the 2 most influential groups, the power groups, were the Ra-K-pharaoahs and the Ra-shields.

The Shetu undid Ra.  And in fact, they went after the Ra-K-pharoahs (Rockefellers) and they went after the Ra-shields (Rothschilds) and they reprogrammed most of them.  Some of the Ra-K-pharaoahs and some of the Ra-shields said, "Yo dude, do them, I'll do anything you want, if you leave me just the money and leave me alone."

Some of them sold out.  Now, Shetu became the government, the administrative government for the Reptilians.  Would it surprise you if Shetu, the Shetu government, is the root of the term, "shadow," or the shadow government?  Who are the Shetu?  They were stonemasons.  But, did you know that the secondary interpretation of Shetus is "free," remember that they had a free hand, free liberty.

They were the Freemasons.

Edited August 19, 2016 by gendao

[Silent Answers]

Murderers come in all ethnicities and racial persuasions. But my hatemongering radar goes up when I read thread titles like this one. Learning history is one thing, fanning prejudice another. I´m not going to report this thread but I think it´s skirting a line.

 

Whenever someone names a minority group and tells us that we "mustn´t forget" something negative about that group...well, you´ve got to wonder about motivation.

 

Here are some other potential threads I´d find similarly questionable.

 

We mustn´t forget that...

 

Asians are bad drivers.

Blacks are gangsters and thieves.

Arabs are terrorists.

 

And so on. Some stereotypes really are best forgotten.

"Asians" is far too broad....Chinese are definitely the worst behind the wheel.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

Communist obsession with "gun control"

"One man with a gun can control a hundred without one. Conduct mass searches and execute those found with arms." – Lenin

Edited August 26, 2016 by Sionnach

[CityHermit!]

Wow, ragging on meditation and bumping up Ayn Rand, that is comedy right there.