Why has Sionachs topic regarding cultural Marxism been removed ?

[Karl]

The mods had locked the Topic despite there being no racist content in the thread, but it had a title which was somewhat misleading IMO which included 'jew'. The title didn't reflect the content of the thread except historically it was accurate, but gave an impression that it might have ulterior motives in promoting anti-semitism (which it didn't).

 

It contained nothing offensive unless someone was an offended Marxist so, sans the title which could easily have been changed, why has it it been removed without an option for the OP to modify the title ?

[Apech]

 

The women's cadre of the Democratic Peoples Front for the Liberation of DaoBums celebrate the removal of reactionary imperialist lies from the heart of their glorious homeland.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1VoQAvcrjw

[Karl]

 

The women's cadre of the Democratic Peoples Front for the Liberation of DaoBums celebrate the removal of reactionary imperialist lies from the heart of their glorious homeland.

I doubt that. It was certainly correct IMO to do something about the word 'jew' used in the title. I've made this point to the OP in a PM. To be Jewish is to belong to a race of people and isn't a choice, so to take the attitude that Marxism-in all its forms (one of which is facist) is purely a Jewish invention would be wildly incorrect. Rand was a Jew. She opposed both Collectivism and religion equally. We really shouldn't need to go through this, but it appears people still don't understand the difference between race, religion, political ideology and culture. The best thing to do is to educate, not remove a thread because it may be deemed offensive without explaining to the OP and participants exactly why it was offensive.

[Apech]

I think perhaps the Op's motives were provocative since the title was designed to shock and yet the content did not relate directly to it.

[Karl]

I think perhaps the Op's motives were provocative since the title was designed to shock and yet the content did not relate directly to it.

I did that to me for certain. I've had a number of emails between myself and Sionnach regarding my own dislike of that title. If I thought it were OK by the mods to do so, then I would suggest we aired the issues. They are very complicated and there are a lot of ill defined terms. People bandy around terms like anti-Semitic, Zionism, Islam, Muslim, Christian, Arab without thinking through what the meanings are and how they apply.

[ralis]

I doubt that. It was certainly correct IMO to do something about the word 'jew' used in the title. I've made this point to the OP in a PM. To be Jewish is to belong to a race of people and isn't a choice, so to take the attitude that Marxism-in all its forms (one of which is facist) is purely a Jewish invention would be wildly incorrect. Rand was a Jew. She opposed both Collectivism and religion equally. We really shouldn't need to go through this, but it appears people still don't understand the difference between race, religion, political ideology and culture. The best thing to do is to educate, not remove a thread because it may be deemed offensive without explaining to the OP and participants exactly why it was offensive.

 

Fascism does not exist in any form of Marxism or Communism.

[Apech]

Fascism does not exist in any form of Marxism or Communism.

 

 

Yes we're back to that old chestnut.  Fascism and communism are distinct ideologies.  And fascism is misused to mean Totalitarian or Authoritarian.

[Karl]

Fascism does not exist in any form of Marxism or Communism.

Same beast different colour. It's all collectivist ideology that subverts the freedom of the individual to that of the state/common good or any other ideal.

 

It was the economics that used to provide the marginal difference. Facism (we have that instead of laissez faire capitalism) has the means of production (nominally) in the hands of private enterprise, but it is in fact governed by the state, or in modern terms it's impossible to see who governs who as corporatism and state are pretty much the same thing. Communism has the means of production (nominally) in the people's hands, but it's the state that determines everything. Facism probably gets the nod as the better economic model, but it's really only a matter of degree and timescale.

 

Had it been the USSR instead of Germany that had set out the conquer land mass, then for certain history would now have the communists/progressives/ liberals/ socialists as the beasts and fascism would be considered an annoyance. It's only semantics after all. They are identical in my eyes, as they are in every philosophical sense.

[Karl]

Yes we're back to that old chestnut.  Fascism and communism are distinct ideologies.  And fascism is misused to mean Totalitarian or Authoritarian.

Try defining them and then discussing the workings of each and their isn't a spit of difference. Mussolini was a relatively soft dictator compared to Hitler and Hitler killed less people than Stalin or Mao. I shudder at the thought of living under any of them.

[liminal_luke]

Personally, I didn´t get much past the title.  If Sionnach really wants to discuss Marxism in the off topic area (without the anti-semetic overtunes), couldn´t he just start a new thread about Marxism?  Easey peasey.  

[Kar3n]

***MODERATION NOTICE***

 

The thread in question was hidden after numerous reports.

The tone of the thread was set, and that, can not be undone with merely editing the title. The article the thread was based on is an opinion piece, as indicated by its placement on the website it originated from.

TDB does not support calling out one group over another.

 

***

[Karl]

 

***MODERATION NOTICE***

 

The thread in question was hidden after numerous reports.

The tone of the thread was set, and that, can not be undone with merely editing the title. The article the thread was based on is an opinion piece, as indicated by its placement on the website it originated from.

TDB does not support calling out one group over another.

 

***

What does it mean 'calling out one group over another' . Does that mean no one can be criticised, or no group can be criticised ?

It seems pretty grey as we are arguing hells teeth over Clinton vs Trump. These are all opinion pieces surely ?

 

I'm most confused.

[Apech]

Try defining them and then discussing the workings of each and their isn't a spit of difference. Mussolini was a relatively soft dictator compared to Hitler and Hitler killed less people than Stalin or Mao. I shudder at the thought of living under any of them.

 

We've done this before ... so I'm not going to do this - and the number of people killed is not a measure of how th eideology works.

[Karl]

We've done this before ... so I'm not going to do this - and the number of people killed is not a measure of how th eideology works.

Only that both did. Leave it there anyway, I really just wanted to why the thread vanished. No I'm very confused about why it vanished except for the obviously potentially inflammatory title.

[Kar3n]

What does it mean 'calling out one group over another' . Does that mean no one can be criticised, or no group can be criticised ?

It seems pretty grey as we are arguing hells teeth over Clinton vs Trump. These are all opinion pieces surely ?

 

I'm most confused.

 

Genocide is a whole other discussion, Karl, and you know it.

 

Botton line, the thread is closed.

[Karl]

Genocide is a whole other discussion, Karl, and you know it.

 

Botton line, the thread is closed.

But it is a discussion, surely not a censored subject ? I don't agree with you Kar3n in that respect, but your the mod, so I have to accept the verdict. I hope you apply that censorship equally.

[Kar3n]

But it is a discussion, surely not a censored subject ? I don't agree with you Kar3n in that respect, but your the mod, so I have to accept the verdict. I hope you apply that censorship equally.

 

It was a collective decision by the mod team. 

 

Thank you for your candor.

[thelerner]

Personally, I didn´t get much past the title.  If Sionnach really wants to discuss Marxism in the off topic area (without the anti-semetic overtunes), couldn´t he just start a new thread about Marxism?  Easey peasey.  

I think this is worth seconding.  You can write about Marxism without throwing words like Mass Murderous Jews into the title.  Unless that's what you want to scream in order to get eye balls.  

 

I don't think Sionnach's an idiot.  He knew what he was doing and got the reaction expected. 

[Golden Dragon Shining]

The title was copied from the original source Ynetnews "Ynetnews is the online English-language Israeli news website of Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel’s most-read newspaper, and the Hebrew news portal, Ynet."

 

I guess this makes Jews anti-semetic? *shrugs*
 

[Karl]

The title was copied from the original source Ynetnews "Ynetnews is the online English-language Israeli news website of Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel’s most-read newspaper, and the Hebrew news portal, Ynet."

 

I guess this makes Jews anti-semetic? *shrugs*

 

Ok I'm clearer now. Actually this is something that I was similarly close to posting during a discussion about homosexuality. It's really bound up in 'cultural marxism, I call it that because I have no other sense of what is going on in modern society/political correctness/demonising white male heterosexuals and lionising small groups in what is clearly racism in reverse. I could equally have said to remember just how many homosexuals were serial murders/rapists. The reality is of course that this is true of every group, but there is a sense, if we take the Jews as an example, that they are the victims, that they are close to angels who are persecuted/mass murdered and historical fact is hence, expediently rubbed away.

 

So, what's going on ? It's clearly true that this is happening. No one is allowed to forget the hollocaust-quite rightly, but the mass murdering Jews of Russia are expunged. Same with the massacre of homosexuals in the recent night club shooting, it is hardly mentioned that one of the shooters appears to have been a homosexual, or that homosexuals have some terrible murdering individuals amongst them. Black lives matter ignores the fact that the majority of black men are killed by black men, not by white policemen.

 

Somehow equality doesn't apply here. No one bats an eyelid at 'pale, male and stale'. Feminista scream for men to be taught not to rape women, yet there are many women rapists and men raping men. Do 'black lives matter' more than white lives ? Then why is it that slavery is considered the province of whites, yet it has been practised by all races throughout history-the Turks were taking Christian slaves only a few hundred years ago. Why is it OK to criticise British imperialism, but to forget the African/American Indian tribes that practised genocide against other tribes ?

 

If oppression is a bad thing-obviously-then it must not lionise one group over another. If it's Non PC to attack blacks, homosexuals, Jews or any other group, then it must be equally non PC to attack white male Christian homosexuals. Let's have equality if we shall have it. No more allowing threads criticising Christian republicans, or British Imperialists, white slavery, Nazi genocides, or let's open up the possibility that ALL groups and all people are and have participated in horrendous acts of oppressive coercion against their own race/group as well as other groups.

 

I have been quite shocked at the reaction by some young people following the UK referendum and at the tone of the press generally. Brexiteers are branded racist, xenophobic, muddle minded, uneducated, white, old extremists. Even in the House of Commons it's acceptable to utter the words 'male, pale and stale' without any attempt to apply PC rules, in fact the opposite, one after another the male eunuchs stand up to agree that there need be more women, more ethnic minorities, more homosexuals and act as if the entirety of the older White male Christian heterosexual groups are unpardonable sinners of the worst kind-and everything wrong in the world is their fault, but everything good is black, female, homosexual and young, is brilliant and untainted except, of course, by the oppression of that white group that made them act badly in a small minority of cases.

 

Where has the balance gone ? Is this 'cultural marxism' or is it simply racist oppression gone too far ?

Edited August 18, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

Intersectionalism reduces people to categories by 'identity politics' ranked in order of victimhood.  This is based on the the strange idea that the views and experiences of the underdogs are more true and more valid than anyone else.  So of course the heterosexual white middle class male - being supposedly top of the pyramid of patriarchal power is supposed to born into a world free of suffering and full of privilege and his views are discounted.  This is why the left and what used to be called socialism is effectively dead and unelectable.  They now, according to the guardian are thinking of refocussing on 'class' - having learned no lessons at all.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/18/left-must-refocus-on-class-care-about-workers-liberals-priority-right-exploit-divisions

[Karl]

Intersectionalism reduces people to categories by 'identity politics' ranked in order of victimhood.  This is based on the the strange idea that the views and experiences of the underdogs are more true and more valid than anyone else.  So of course the heterosexual white middle class male - being supposedly top of the pyramid of patriarchal power is supposed to born into a world free of suffering and full of privilege and his views are discounted.  This is why the left and what used to be called socialism is effectively dead and unelectable.  They now, according to the guardian are thinking of refocussing on 'class' - having learned no lessons at all.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/18/left-must-refocus-on-class-care-about-workers-liberals-priority-right-exploit-divisions

In other words we will create division in order to stir up hatred and oppression, then we will use that to get into power and do whatever the hell we like.

 

I've seen it written on this forum several times about 'silver spoons' the 'undeserving rich' the 'robber barons'. This is vindictive racism/classism and needs exposing for what it really is in order to prevent groups gaining power on the back of that manufactured conflict. It's what Hitler, Stalin and Mao did by creating disharmony in its population. The way to treat it is to open it up to the light, to expose it. This is why free speech is vitally important. By shutting down criticism of one group whilst adopting a blindness to the criticisms of another this creates, not resolves conflict. It festers and it allows those that are using this strategy to win elections/ gain control of the strings of power unopposed. That's how tyrants come to power, not by free speech, but by denying it.