How to trust the universe?

[Shad282]

it seems for me hard to trust the universe/life.. you can see people who struggle and suffer due to stuff beyond their control, for example a kid that is living in war or on street hungry and such..  why would the universe put that innocent kid in such situations and pains. Even tho, some may say, will help him to develop and become strong and other benefits of these situations.. but these lessons could have come in another way. why the universe/life has to make its learning through suffering? couldn't be upgraded to a new positive way of teaching?

 

how would I trust that the universe won't try to teach me through such kind of events of pains? i know i can cop up with such events that I consider painful or whatever.. but are they necessary. it is like you know the way out but do you have to go through it from the first place?

 

I do believe that we create our own reality but that is make me increase the control i have over myself and my actions and increase my awareness of thoughts and sensations to be able to control my own reality 100%.

 

but at the same time I think it is not really we are the only one who make our own reality, no matter what we do, because how would an innocent pure kid put himself in such situation and experience: (no karma plz)

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/08/20/brother-of-omran-daqneesh-boy-who-became-the-symbol-of-syrias/21455644/

 

isn't the universe harsh?

[Silent Answers]

People have carved out a notch of stability from the harshness of life. In the real world, everything is out to get you. There are infinte other things dying and suffering around us, but only when we're reminded of our own vulnerability do we worry..."What if that were to happen to me or my loved ones!?"

 

There simply can't be progress without competition and death. Of course, I'm thankful that I wasn't born into a worse off situation. I'll help those that I can along the way, but that's about all any one can do. In the grandest scheme of things, our pain is a convincingly well-acted performance.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Silent Answers

[Marblehead]

Well, when we reify the universe, give it consciousness, and then place "OUR" moral standards on it surely there are going to be a lot of disappointing people.

 

We should accept the workings of the universe exactly as they are.  (After all, we can't do anything about it anyhow except to bitch.)  If we understand the Way of Tao and do our best to live and base our values upon the Way we will find much more peace in our life.

 

Sure, there will be many who don't get "their fair share".  But then, who ever said that life is fair?

[Jetsun]

To trust the universe I think it to take it on its own terms, which basically means to perceive it directly without the mind projecting its issues and requirements onto it.

 

While the universe has a harsh element to it the large proportion of suffering is caused by the human ego, or collective egotism, at least in my experience I have found the universe to be much kinder than my own mind. To see the truth that it is the mind which causes most of the problems then the trust of universe increases, to the point where you feel grateful for all the things the universe sends you to wake you up out of the tyranny and limitations of living from the mind. 

[3bob]

good questions...btw. the universe is pretty big, I try to just observe our local earth for some answers - for instance is she fair in the sense that the elemental forces related to the earth don't play favorites among us,  and what happens if we work with the natural laws of living ecosystems or break them -  is there law and order taking place in "nature" that we can see and know of and with that count on and trust in same?  Mankind is not always fair with mankind because of various fears but what fear does the beautiful soul of the earth who works with the life-force have in her that would treat mankind or any kind of being unfairly?   

Edited August 22, 2016 by 3bob

[silent thunder]

the sun shines in all directions

the rain falls equally on the healer and the murderer

[3bob]

equally except the healer faces the "sun" instead of turning his back on it...

[silent thunder]

I hide from the sun, except for early morning and dusk... I'm pale and it hurts me.

[dwai]

it seems for me hard to trust the universe/life.. you can see people who struggle and suffer due to stuff beyond their control, for example a kid that is living in war or on street hungry and such.. why would the universe put that innocent kid in such situations and pains. Even tho, some may say, will help him to develop and become strong and other benefits of these situations.. but these lessons could have come in another way. why the universe/life has to make its learning through suffering? couldn't be upgraded to a new positive way of teaching?

 

how would I trust that the universe won't try to teach me through such kind of events of pains? i know i can cop up with such events that I consider painful or whatever.. but are they necessary. it is like you know the way out but do you have to go through it from the first place?

 

I do believe that we create our own reality but that is make me increase the control i have over myself and my actions and increase my awareness of thoughts and sensations to be able to control my own reality 100%.

 

but at the same time I think it is not really we are the only one who make our own reality, no matter what we do, because how would an innocent pure kid put himself in such situation and experience: (no karma plz)

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/08/20/brother-of-omran-daqneesh-boy-who-became-the-symbol-of-syrias/21455644/

 

isn't the universe harsh?

First we have to do away with our opinions and judgements and concepts of morality, right and wrong, good and bad. Essentially stop attaching to any opposite pole...

 

When we can stop attaching to the opposites and stop taking any position we rest in alignment with the universe (Dao).

We then become sensitive to how patterns emerge and dissolve - all is energy. We flow with that energy...that's how we can trust the universe...by letting go of our ideas of trust and distrust entirely and just follow the energy...

[Daeluin]

You are the universe.

 

Do you trust yourself?

 

Do you trust yourself to let go of all the protection you've placed between yourself and the rest of yourself, trust yourself to be vulnerable?

 

All we need to decide is what is right for us in the present moment. This sets our course, and can be guided from our heart, with no need for thought. If we feel that something needs to change, simply perform an action to change it.

 

Often we fail to do this because we are caught up in a judgement about something external to us. If an external source hurts me, I don't need to think about it or fear it, I can simply go another way, or change something.

 

The daodejing speaks much on being humble. Flowing like water to the lowest place. When we do not hold to grand aspirations and ideals, we cannot have them denied to us. When we do not place ourselves above, we cannot be put below. And by staying resting upon what is low, water builds up continuously, naturally, until it begins to reach even the clouds. Even in the clouds it does not presume, and simply continues to flow with dao.

 

Trust, accept, let go and simply be present. The answers come from the heart, not the mind. If the mind won't let go, go read some daodejing.

[thelerner]

I don't trust the universe any further then I could throw it. 

Not when I read the newspapers or study history.

Heck, just 635 million years ago, last April, late in the Proterozoic Eon,

was 'Snowball Earth' where the Bitch tried to wipe out all life here.

 

yet, yet.. the universe has been good to me.

it's, it's.. .. mom.

so i thank it,

act respectfully,

enjoy the good times,

and build spiritual strength

for the bad. 

 

that's my plan..

thankful, respectful, enjoyful, building endurance.

Edited August 23, 2016 by thelerner

[Shad282]

You are the universe.

 

Do you trust yourself?

 

Do you trust yourself to let go of all the protection you've placed between yourself and the rest of yourself, trust yourself to be vulnerable?

 

All we need to decide is what is right for us in the present moment. This sets our course, and can be guided from our heart, with no need for thought. If we feel that something needs to change, simply perform an action to change it.

 

Often we fail to do this because we are caught up in a judgement about something external to us. If an external source hurts me, I don't need to think about it or fear it, I can simply go another way, or change something.

 

The daodejing speaks much on being humble. Flowing like water to the lowest place. When we do not hold to grand aspirations and ideals, we cannot have them denied to us. When we do not place ourselves above, we cannot be put below. And by staying resting upon what is low, water builds up continuously, naturally, until it begins to reach even the clouds. Even in the clouds it does not presume, and simply continues to flow with dao.

 

Trust, accept, let go and simply be present. The answers come from the heart, not the mind. If the mind won't let go, go read some daodejing.

 

It is a question of self trust... but still hard for me to be vulnerable because i have seen what happened to others and how sometimes stuff are rough. and i might taken with the flow to places that aren't that much nice. 

[Daeluin]

Tonight in class we read this.

From Jonathan Star's translation of chapter 27 of the daodejing:
 

A knower of the truth

travels without leaving a trace

speaks without causing harm

gives without keeping an account

The door he shuts, though having no lock

cannot be opened

The knot he ties, though using no cord,

cannot be undone

 

The sage is always on the side of virtue

so everyone around him prospers

He is always on the side of truth

so everything around him is fulfilled

 

The path of the sage is called

"The Path of Illumination"

He who gives himself to this path

is like a block of wood

that gives itself to the chisel --

Cut by cut it is honed to perfection

 

Only a student who gives himself

can receive the master's gift

If you think otherwise,

despite your knowledge, you have blundered

 

Giving and receiving are one

This is called

"The Great Wonder"

"The essential Mystery"

"The very heart of all that is true"

 

[doc benway]

it seems for me hard to trust the universe/life.. you can see people who struggle and suffer due to stuff beyond their control, for example a kid that is living in war or on street hungry and such..  why would the universe put that innocent kid in such situations and pains. Even tho, some may say, will help him to develop and become strong and other benefits of these situations.. but these lessons could have come in another way. why the universe/life has to make its learning through suffering? couldn't be upgraded to a new positive way of teaching?

 

how would I trust that the universe won't try to teach me through such kind of events of pains? i know i can cop up with such events that I consider painful or whatever.. but are they necessary. it is like you know the way out but do you have to go through it from the first place?

 

I do believe that we create our own reality but that is make me increase the control i have over myself and my actions and increase my awareness of thoughts and sensations to be able to control my own reality 100%.

 

but at the same time I think it is not really we are the only one who make our own reality, no matter what we do, because how would an innocent pure kid put himself in such situation and experience: (no karma plz)

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/08/20/brother-of-omran-daqneesh-boy-who-became-the-symbol-of-syrias/21455644/

 

isn't the universe harsh?

 

As we get closer to the realization that we ARE nothing other than the universe, it's eyes and ears and tongue, then trust is effortless and spontaneous. Until then it truly is challenging because clearly there is a lot of suffering in the world.

[3bob]

actually the universe is a matrix...and its form comes and goes

 

we, it, that etc.. is transcendent to although connected to the matrix that it spins

[Karl]

Nature to be commanded must first be obeyed.

 

We don't create out own reality, reality is an absolute and we are part of it. So, it's fair to say that there is no universe to trust, only people. The universe isn't malevolent, it contains the resources we need to survive and be happy, but we have to think and perform work in order for that to happen.

[3bob]

what great and all powerful ego thinks it can command the universe, which is what it sounds like you are alluding to Karl - hehe...

Edited August 24, 2016 by 3bob

[rex]

As the saying attributed to Oliver Cromwell goes,'Trust in God but keep your powder dry'.

[Karl]

what great and all powerful ego thinks it can command the universe, which is what it sounds like you are alluding to Karl - hehe...

I can utilise nature. I can turn something into something else, but only if I obey nature first.

 

Funnily enough many on here believe that the universe is a product of their consciousness and that they ARE creating their own realities. Not me though. Existence exists and consciousness is the faculty for grasping that existence.

[3bob]

obviously "utilize" is not the same as "command",  btw an individuals mind/programing creates his own reality to a certain degree, cracking  open that individuals mental programs is then cracking open a reality beyond such limits.  Also If you are alluding to the universe as being an "absolute" then I'd say that definition needs to include it being in absolute change or in flux, thus not an unchanging absolute as in the meaning of the term "Brahman".

[Karl]

obviously "utilize" is not the same as "command",  btw an individuals mind/programing creates his own reality to a certain degree, cracking  open that individuals mental programs is then cracking open a reality beyond such limits.  Also If you are alluding to the universe as being an "absolute" then I'd say that definition needs to include it being in absolute change or in flux, thus not an unchanging absolute as in the meaning of the term "Brahman".

That's the point of the second part of the quote Bob. Bacon was an astute logician, so there is a balance between what can be commanded by man that depends on what he must first obey.

 

He doesn't create reality, he might have conceptive delusions and hallucinations, but reality is absolute.

 

Absolute includes all change, why did you think it meant unchanging ?

[3bob]

to some absolute means: an absolute unchanging Source, being that any thing that changes is obviously not in an absolute or always  in the same state.  Btw, you can find countless references to an unchanging absolute from various sources, one being the T.C.C. chap. 25 with, "standing alone without change"

[Karl]

to some absolute means: an absolute unchanging Source, being that any thing that changes is obviously not in an absolute or always  in the same state.  Btw, you can find countless references to an unchanging absolute from various sources, one being the T.C.C. chap. 25 with, "standing alone without change"

That's why we should first define the word.

 

The universe has no source, so, in the sense of the philosophy you follow, then this would constitute an absolute. Everything within the universe is changing, but as everything is an integral part of the universe, then it too is an absolute.

 

So, absolute doesn't mean unchanging, it means from the uncreated, the unsourced, the permanent in a universal sense. So that a speck of dust is an absolute even though it may one day evaporate into a gas, or concretise into a planet. It is what it is moment to moment.

 

That might be a way of interpreting it in conjunction with your philosophy ?

[3bob]

I used the T.T.C. excerpt as just one small example....so if we stick with the T.C.C. for awhile we can also find "as the origin (or source) of heaven and earth, it is nameless".

 

Btw, there is no way in hell you can prove your statement that "the universe has no source" or that I can hand you such a source that you can then measure with tools of physical measurement, that is as plain and as logical as can be, thus your definition is your own and not a truism for all.

Edited August 25, 2016 by 3bob

[roger]

Shad282,

 

My sister once told me about a college class in which the teacher asked, "God is good, God is all-powerful, why is there evil?"

 

Why would the Universe, God, or any loving power want all the suffering there is on earth?

 

Here's my opinion.

 

The divine plan is for TOTAL spiritual experience. All That Is wants to FULLY experience love, joy, truth, hope, strength, healing - ALL good things.

 

Without anger, there would be no such thing as forgiveness; without sickness, there couldn't be healing; without ignorance, there wouldn't be any such thing as learning or growth.

 

Without ALL possible experiences, All That Is couldn't FULLY experience all good things, therefore all possibilities exist.