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[silent thunder]

Another great source of negative ions is the beach.  Crashing waves.  Walk along the break and be healed.

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[redcairo]

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.

 

I tried the second one -- still working on how/where to put it though. It's got a couple wires coming from it, and a separate little thing (a wire?) that says 'fragile glass' in the box. Haven't a clue what to do with it and am hoping there's instructions in the bottom. I put it back on the table as I was busy, will look again later.

 

I was looking for some books/docs on negative ions. Most cost money (I confess I am spoiled with free books). I have a couple of questions, if you have time.

 

1. For something with "a lot of research," where is that research? By this I mean, I went to pubmed, but my search strings were insufficient. Can you tell me some place and key terms I could use to find reference to this research?

 

2. When an NI generator creates "ions" -- which wiki says are 'atoms or molecules' (their... neutrons? anions? cations? I'm confused), what are we generating? I mean for example, an atom might be a copper atom. As opposed to a helium atom. But every atom is "something." What are these? I think maybe I fundamentally misunderstand something.

 

Thanks very much,

RC

[cheya]

Hi RC,

Ransomer will answer, but I will stick this in, how I first heard about negative ions.

This is an old book, but still highly relevant, and does cover the early research. Soyka tells the story of unraveling the mystery around his peculiar health complaints and how he came to learn about negative ions. You might be able to get it from the library, but it's only one cent plus shipping from Amazon used.   Fascinating!

 

Here you go:

 

 

Ion EffectNov 1985

by Fred Soyka and Alan Edmonds

Paperback

$0.01used & new(18 offers)

 

 

 

[redcairo]

Thank you! It's on order. :-)

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[idquest]

Here is where I'm confused. To create a negative ion we have to get that additional electron from somewhere. Normally matter and atoms are neutral. So if we get a negative ion, at the same time a positive ion has to be created so that neutrality is preserved. In my understanding, the number of negative ions should be the same as the number of positive ions. If we have a negative ion generator, where do all those positive ions go to? My train of thought is based on a high voltage spark being the source of negative ions.

 

The other question I'm confused with is the composition of the negative ions. Air consists of nitrogen and oxygen with nitrogen being about 80% of the air. I would assume that the spark will create nitrogen ions with about 4 times more occurrence as oxygen ions. This is perhaps beside the points as nobody really knows how and why negative ions affect the body, but if we go science road, it's better to be accurate.

[redcairo]

Thank you. Question: how do you know it's creating oxygen ions instead of say, copper ions? Is an ion an ion? Is that why, say, oxidation/rust can happen? Because electronics are, ah, agnostic about the mass they make up, hence can be traded??

 

Also: ironically I never thought of NI gens when writing this blog post about, of all things, the electron state of the human body. 

http://hypernutrient.blogspot.com/2013/11/szent-gyorgyi-and-dragon.html

That blog is mostly just a place to put a couple useful articles on vitamin C, an overview

http://hypernutrient.blogspot.com/2013/11/vitamin-c-liposomal-and-more-casual.html

and a ref to Cathcart's main tolerance study (though the paper is decently summarized in the image I made based on his paper images, abstract etc., here:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-U3Ty_sy2VAQ/Uo3W6ki7HQI/AAAAAAAAAWw/W9WCg_Juthg/s1600/cathcart-ascorbic-bowel-tolerance-summary.png

 

And I have off and on been reading about this concept of getting electrons not just through intake like food but of course, air, light/color/sound/etc. In theory we ought to be able to get a sort of atomic precursor to vitamin C through the radio... done right. That's sort of a newish idea for me, although some inspiration from the inner world essentially told me that some time ago (I'm slow to change).

 

Anyway, the NI gens seem like a fascinating thing. Thanks for your info on this.

 

RC

Edited September 4, 2016 by redcairo

[Brian]

Thank you. Question: how do you know it's creating oxygen ions instead of say, copper ions? Is an ion an ion? Is that why, say, oxidation/rust can happen? Because electronics are, ah, agnostic about the mass they make up, hence can be traded??

 

Also: ironically I never thought of NI gens when writing this blog post about, of all things, the electron state of the human body.

http://hypernutrient.blogspot.com/2013/11/szent-gyorgyi-and-dragon.html

That blog is mostly just a place to put a couple useful articles on vitamin C, an overview

http://hypernutrient.blogspot.com/2013/11/vitamin-c-liposomal-and-more-casual.html

and a ref to Cathcart's main tolerance study (though the paper is decently summarized in the image I made based on his paper images, abstract etc., here:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-U3Ty_sy2VAQ/Uo3W6ki7HQI/AAAAAAAAAWw/W9WCg_Juthg/s1600/cathcart-ascorbic-bowel-tolerance-summary.png

 

And I have off and on been reading about this concept of getting electrons not just through intake like food but of course, air, light/color/sound/etc. In theory we ought to be able to get a sort of atomic precursor to vitamin C through the radio... done right. That's sort of a newish idea for me, although some inspiration from the inner world essentially told me that some time ago (I'm slow to change).

 

Anyway, the NI gens seem like a fascinating thing. Thanks for your info on this.

 

RC

Well, for one thing, there is very little copper in the air but lots of nitrogen and oxygen...

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[gendao]

Here is where I'm confused. To create a negative ion we have to get that additional electron from somewhere. Normally matter and atoms are neutral. So if we get a negative ion, at the same time a positive ion has to be created so that neutrality is preserved. In my understanding, the number of negative ions should be the same as the number of positive ions. If we have a negative ion generator, where do all those positive ions go to? My train of thought is based on a high voltage spark being the source of negative ions.

 

The other question I'm confused with is the composition of the negative ions. Air consists of nitrogen and oxygen with nitrogen being about 80% of the air. I would assume that the spark will create nitrogen ions with about 4 times more occurrence as oxygen ions. This is perhaps beside the points as nobody really knows how and why negative ions affect the body, but if we go science road, it's better to be accurate.

Ions are invisible particles, either molecules or atoms, which bear an electric charge. Atoms, for instance, consist of an atomic nucleus that contains neutral neutrons and positively charged protons, as well as orbiting electrons that are negatively charged. When an atom is in a neutral condition, the number of protons (+) and electrons (-) is equal. When the number of protons and electrons is not the same, the particle becomes an ion that is either positively or negatively charged.

Negative Ion (Anion): an atom (or molecule) that has gained one or more extra negatively charged electrons. Negative ions are naturally generated by evaporating water, ocean surf, waterfalls and ionic minerals such as Tourmaline.

Thank you. Question: how do you know it's creating oxygen ions instead of say, copper ions? Is an ion an ion? Is that why, say, oxidation/rust can happen? Because electronics are, ah, agnostic about the mass they make up, hence can be traded??

 

And I have off and on been reading about this concept of getting electrons not just through intake like food but of course, air, light/color/sound/etc. In theory we ought to be able to get a sort of atomic precursor to vitamin C through the radio... done right. That's sort of a newish idea for me, although some inspiration from the inner world essentially told me that some time ago (I'm slow to change).

At its most basic level, oxidation is the loss of electrons. It happens when an atom or compound loses one or more electrons. Some elements lose electrons more easily than others. These elements are said to be easily oxidized. Generally speaking, metals including sodium, magnesium, and iron are easily oxidized.

Elements that are more reluctant to lose electrons are not easily oxidized; they hold onto their electrons very tightly. Nonmetals including nitrogen, oxygen, and chlorine are not easily oxidized.

After electrons were discovered, chemists became convinced that oxidation-reduction reactions involved the transfer of electrons from one atom to another.

There's a lot of different terms (negative ions, antioxidants, alkalizing foods, grounding) referring to various substances with "extra" electrons that our bodies can accept their "donor electrons" from through inhalation, digestion, or mere physical contact.  You could think of each of these compounds as tiny "batteries" charged with an extra electron or few...

 

Of course, that then raises the question of why couldn't we just lick a battery for better health?  Which is actually a good question - because if we can electrically ground merely through skin contact, then why not also absorb free electrons directly from an electrical current?

Edited September 5, 2016 by gendao

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Andrei]

Of course, that then raises the question of why couldn't we just lick a battery for better health?  Which is actually a good question - because if we can electrically ground merely through skin contact, then why not also absorb free electrons directly from an electrical current?

 

Yes you can do that with a zapper. Zappers are designed to generate electrical current at a voltage of 10.5 V which is high enough to penetrate the skin insulation. If you have moisture on your skin then the voltage barrier drops so you need less voltage but if the skin is dry you need a lot more. So yes it can be done very easily. By breathing you introduce the ions directly into the lungs and nourish the Zong Qi that enters in the meridian system through lung meridian. By zapping the accupuncture points like Yong Quan in the soles of the feet or Lao Gong in the palms you nourish the meridians Qi of kidney or lung respectively. So either way works the same.

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Andrei]

Yes I had experiences with them. They are good, they do what they say they do, it is up to you to regulate your own practice with them, they are just tools, you are the driver.

 

I was doing zhan zhuang for 30 min a day on the zapper connected to the soles of my feet, I was really feeling the bubbling point (Yong Quan point KD-1) how was filling up through my kidney meridian the kidneys, it was a cool watery energy, it was feeling good until the winter come, because I was too cold and I had to stop and start building the Yang energy with "positive ions". This is how I realized that increasing the oxygen concentration in your blood through breathing patterns it leads to cooling down your body temperature but if you decrease the oxygen and increase the CO2 then the body temperature increase so you warm up. But this is a different mechanism. Anyway you may want to maintain an optimum level of Yin-Yang balance. Another thing that zappers are doing is that they introduce a pulsating wave inside your body that is supposed to kill germs, bacteria and viruses, which I believe it did but I was not aware at the time that I was killing my good bacteria from my own guts which are essential for digesting the food. So it took me a while (like in several years) to undo the damage I was doing myself by charging with "Yin energy" directly in the Dantian. But that's how life is, I learned my lesson. Now I know how important is bacteria in my gut and I appreciate them, I love them and I don't want to build any Dantian anymore.

[redcairo]

I just had a funny experience, where I was listening to somewhere in the middle of Canon Rock by Sungha Jung in another tab

and I was watching the i Ching icon of the post above change in time to the music, while my brain tried to wrap around how the music could be making my perception DO that. Then I realized it wasn't just my perception... it was an animated GIF. hahaha!

 

OK so I think I got the answer to my question: the negative ions are created FROM the air WHERE they are created, hence they will be of a composition to match the atoms of the air used. That makes sense.

 

I have an issue of severe imbalance in my body currently -- two separate medical conditions (both came with birth) -- which combined with age and a recent surgery for one of them (heart), result in a serious edema problem. I take diuretics which are not enough. Andrei would you have any suggestions for something that might reduce something like that? I wonder how mucking about with the kidney meridians in the feet might affect that. Maybe I'd make it worse instead of better...

 

RC

[Andrei]

I am no doctor but my common sense says that edema is caused by lazy kidneys, or if you want the kidneys are too Yin. I just checked on WebMD and they say it may be caused by kidneys failure or liver or heart weakness. So all of them are Yin syndromes, to balance that you may need a Yang tonifying treatment or something like that. Diuretics are Yang, they increase the Qi energy of the kidneys, but you may use other methods that are Yang for liver and heart too. Coffee is a classic diuretics that is Yang for heart and kidneys but I don't know how that may affect your heart condition. All I know is that in TCM there are some herbs that tonify the spleen for example to remove the dampness from the body through perspiration or urine. But if you do exercise you would perspire anyways so you remove the damping and increase the Yang naturally. Also intermitent fasting is a good method to increase liver Yang (fasting usually increases the liver Yang) so you may try that. Also if you have edema in your legs, this is because the gravity pulled the fluid down so you may need to do some massage that helps draining your fluids from the legs to the upper body so that the fluid is better absorbed and processed by the kidneys. The heart being weak does not pump very well the blood so the fluids may be trapped in your legs, but also you need to stimulate the lymph vessels which do not have pumps, the lymph vessels work best through massage or exercise. Better check with a doctor or nutritionist or TCM doctor, all I give you is some ideas that may help you with your condition.

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[Andrei]

I don't contradict you, I just want to remove a confusion about "positive ions". Positive ions are very necessary to our bodies and vital to life, they are the Calcium Ca2+, Magnesium Mg2+, Potasium K+, Sodium Na+, without them there would be no electrical signal on the neural pathways. You wouldn't be able to think or feel anything in this world. The negative ions from breathing with the positive ions from food sources need to combine and generate what we call "life". Positive ions from atmosphere are very nociv, I agree with that. But not everything is nociv or toxic, some things are good, depends on where and how much. Free radicals are bad but they are a byproduct of redox processes which is actually burning the oxygen which is the good part. The free electrons neutralize the free radicals which is good, this is what an anti-oxidant substance would do, like resveratrol or vitamin C or E.

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[redcairo]

Long ago I was reading stuff from this agricultural chemist turned biochemist about the food we eat. Now, as advance warning, this guy was -- and sort of hilariously, too -- a bit of a wingnut. He was a preacher who got asked to leave by more than one church for being too metaphysical. He ended up working with human health and, lacking the proper terminology for about a zillion things, simply used terms the way he wanted them, which of course made anybody traditionally educated and looking into his stuff either think he was a lunatic or just lose their minds trying to wrap around it. As if all this wasn't bad enough, he was constantly under attack from official medical groups who back then were not at all against literally killing people and massive bribes to judges, and several assassination attempts failed. (When he did finally die, he was getting older and it was believed to be from complications from shrapnel, from WWII, that could never be dug out of him.)

 

But all that aside. He had what I felt was an utterly fascinating paradigm. He had begun an agri chem guy but said that (even then in the 40s I think it was) he had to hunt down and buy teaching from experts who knew, after schooling, because schooling was run by government and a lot of it was bunk and owned (back then in the "pwned" sense, now it's literally) by chemical companies. He didn't start getting into medical stuff until a friend/neighbor's young boy had a problem nobody could solve. Anyway, this guy is the one who actually first invented hair analysis, as ash analysis (such as being able to tell you how many people or animals, and a little detail, were killed in a fire where nothing is left but ash), oh and also the Brix Refractometer or at least I think... or maybe it was evaluation based on the underlying sugar/carb property of agri... he was a smart guy.

 

To a great degree officially stamped out of anything 'official' you'll read though since he was completely opposed to every 'official' institution (esp. the AMA, FDA, USDA, etc. despite he worked with the latter, with great complaint, for a long time) and as his primary followers have seemed to be vocal evangelist fundamental christians, that hasn't improved anything as you might imagine.

 

He went on and on about anions and cations. He insisted that technically we did not get our energy from nutrients from food but rather, that the anions/cations of our food "interacted with" the anions/cations of our digestive system and that this "interaction" -- the dynamic -- is what gave us "energy." He also had this whole model about how allegedly the liver actually creates every... cell, but I think it's not 100% physical like you already-see-it-under-the-scope, "out of itself" -- of what it has stored or can call in from various parts of the body -- and sends it to the part of the body that needs the new cell, which is in the process (calling for it) and then "divides" with the liver's input basically staffing this doubling in components. (I found that an interesting sync to some of the ancient legends e.g. of the guy getting a piece of his liver eaten every day, but it was 'for' the world.)

 

He had a ton of knowledge "in his head" and not shared with others, which formed a lot of his ability for amazing diagnostics. I didn't know until I read some of his stuff that there were so many different kinds of calcium, and that each kind has different effects, and that you can actually have too much of one kind and be stockpiling it painfully in joints (well esp. if deficient in the nutrients that better direct it) while suffering from lack of calcium in other ways for not having other forms of it. I may be remembering wrong as my familiarity was in passing years ago and it turns out my body wasn't getting very much oxygen or nutrients from my blood for many years, so I am suspicious of my memory of everything. I do have some write-up notes I posted eons ago for some friends here for anybody interested. http://www.palyne.com/carey-reams-rbti/carey-reams-rtbi-pjnotes1.html

 

Anyway, Reams was all about the interplay of anions/cations as it applied to nutrition which I thought was novel.

 

I find the concept of this interesting because in my meditation work (sort of jungian-ish active imaginational-ish -- more an individual process led by identities on my inside, than anything I've learned from the outside), there are a couple of basics... one is that you "seduce it, don't force it," because everything is about 'the relationship of geometries' as I feel it in my gut. The other is that there's no such thing as me-here and that-there because all I ever can perceive is the dynamic interplay between what-I-think-is-me and what-I-think-is-other. So if I see a table, or John, what I'm really seeing is the ever-happening-"event" of the interplay between the energy of me and the energy of the table or john. Obviously if I change me, the dynamic event, the relationship, changes, hence one's ability to change reality intentionally. In accordance with Will as some would say... if you can "bother getting around to it" as I would say, once the psychology realizes the power we have to do so.

 

But so... maybe it is ever thus. That our nutrients and our breath (Reams believed we got a good chunk of energy just from breathing, which is progressive when you consider he was not eastern in approach) and our spirit and other relationships are not about the creative hermitcrab-shells we see as the physical mass part, but the dance of the ions underneath.

 

***

 

Separate: Don't worry about liability in this case, but thank you. I've been to the doc very recently. My heart problem was fixed (replaced a wrongly-shaped major valve I was born with) so although I'll be in healing mode esp. for the next year that's ok. The other issue is a sort of dysplasia of adipose there is no known solution to (affects over 10% of women to varying degrees but rather extremely in mine. Genetically associated). My kidney tests just taken come out fine.

 

In fact the heart surgeon said that aside from the valve he was replacing, which was a birth issue, and aside from the 'lipedema' which nobody's expected to fix, that I was really healthy. Which is funny because you don't hear of large older women in a cardiac ward being 'really healthy' very often I'll bet.

 

The only problem, aside from side-effects of lipedema of course, is that due to a few years of undiagnosed heart-valve massive leakage, and open heart surgery where they pour a ton more fluids into you, and it takes some time for the body to adapt to the heart's power so solution isn't instant... I have liquid edema too now. Docs say it should go away gradually, but they expected sooner it's obvious. There's a LOT of it, and combined with the lipedema it literally makes it very difficult to stand, and walk, let alone exercise for real. And I NEED to exercise for the sake of my new heart valve, never mind the edema, so basically the problem is preventing me getting to the solution that would solve it, a horrid catch 22.

 

It's imprisoning mobility-wise which is a nightmare, and a long-term one for me, so I'm sure this is some major energetic thing I need to work on spiritually too of course, but probably being so big and in my face, it's completely invisible to me...

 

My body did give me SOME info, which I am implementing now (I was too trashed to do much besides keep breathing, barely, and work via laptop for a living, barely, till I had the surgery recently). One was nutrients: Sulfur and Quercetin. My inner-identities worked very hard to get me this message, the first in a deep male voice, and the second with my Aeons holding up three cards with letters on them, spelling que-rce-tin, that was funny.  I happened to put them in search related to cell membrane, after a vision suggested this was the underlying problem of lipedema to me, and turns out they both have research suggesting they're a big deal for that. Who knew! Well I am only just beginning that now.

 

The second was frequency: long ago I had put together something we called a 'Carmi blanket' on the FreX yahoo list (basically this is where you set a frequency generator, and it puts forth to a radio receiver [probably modern iphone could do this now], which puts out to the power cord of an electric heating pad. So instead of plugging the heating pad into the wall (Note: it does not heat, obviously, this way) you're plugging it into whatever 'frequency' you're running. (Being a good documentarian, I did write down what I was doing at the time, found at http://diy-em.blogspot.com/2013/09/carmi-blanket-em-tech.html for anyone interested.)

 

Anyway I was thinking about it one night driving home, and my Aeons pushed into my dream and showed me a new one that was all about 'the legs' (what I was focused on) (this for adipose-edema from Lipedema, not liquid heart-edema mind you), and gave me the specific frequencies: 22Hz mostly; with some 23-25Hz also, and some 262Hz 'for protection.' Now I have no idea what really works in that category for any given thing, but if your subconscious is interrupting your dreams to give you answers that specific I figure they're worth paying attention to. So as soon as I find the bloody thing (my house looks like a hoarder lives here as I have not been mobile to care for it beyond hiring someone to clean for a couple years) I will do that too.

 

My new hobby for the next year is called "getting rid of all the stuff in my house." Here's hoping it's a feng shui analogue to getting rid of all the stuff I don't want in my body, too. :-)

 

RC

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想

[redcairo]

That's so incredibly kind of you! Thank you!! But I already bought one (the 2nd one I listed) and it's sitting on the cat shelf about eight feet from me in my ~11x11 room where at the moment I'm forced to spend most my time. (I do run a window unit 'fan' in for fresh air and air-flow when the door is open.) I've had it on for a couple days now, but I have so much going on and constantly changing with my health and stuff I do related to it, I can't say whether or not it's helping or if it is, whether that's the thing that's doing it. I should get that book I ordered (thanks to the link/ref above) today I hope! Have been eager to find more on the topic online but not having much luck -- most of what I find is generic and for sales.

 

I went back on a ketogenic diet yesterday. Did that about a decade ago, lost a ton of fat and kept it off for many years -- regained about half of it over the last couple years of near immobility, low O2 etc. I'm sure my body could use getting rid of the extra fat, but I'm doing it in the hopes it helps me drop some water weight. That's usually the first result of dropping carbs, I find. I'd have done this sooner, but the liver is the body's healer and detoxer and I had open heart surgery July 1 so I kinda figured I should give it a couple months at least to work on important stuff before I started making massive ketone-generation (and "process all this crap that used to be in fat storage cells") demands on it. I wouldn't do it now, just to spare it some more time, except that I'm so desperate for exercise even just for heart healing, and need to lose some edema to make it possible.

 

This'll be a nearly spiritual test. Before, I got everything out of my house that wasn't "real food" and low in sugar/carbs. Now, my house is filled with delicious fast easy horrible things I can't eat, but my daughter and her boyfriend do. I had to design intermittant fasting into the plan just to reduce the wandering-in-the-kitchen iterations of temptation LOL. Once the body keto adapts it's no big deal, but until then and especially a week in, even the sugar in green veggies starts seeming orgasmic, it's funny but pitiful. A day in and already I have the same problem I always do with that plan -- I can't freaking eat enough. I've been somewhat anorexic my whole adult life (lipedemics are infamous for that, might be an overcompensation, or maybe a leptin issue), and since the heart issue meant I wasn't getting up to 70% of the oxygen and nutrients in blood to my body for many years that's the ultimate starvation... I need 'dense nutrition.' But just try eating keto and getting enough calories, short of living on bacon-mayo-avo with butter on it or something. Critics say it isn't low-carb that works, merely that people naturally eat fewer calories that way and are still full. Yep usually so... sounds like an idea that works for what most people want, then!

 

We'll see how the NI generator, the little EM textile with the freq's I was given, a range of supplements including those suggested to me internally, some silly sitting on edge of bed lifting dumbbells sized for a 5 year old, and eating Keto/IF works. I guess if nothing else the discipline to do it all consistently will be worth the effort.

 

Oh I wanted to mention I put the other NI gen I bought on the edge of a shelf that nearly overlooks two cat litter boxes with lids. I'm not in that room often right now but I thought it would be interesting to see if there was any difference in smell, if NI's were knocking heavy particles out of the air.

 

Has there been any research on NI related to plants or animals?

 

RC

[小梦想]

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Edited August 10, 2018 by 小梦想