Life After Death? Life After Life?

[Albion]

   

I posted this first to Derek Lin's 'Tea House' forum.

 

I see a lot of thinking here at Dao Bums, that there is *NOTHING* after death, for the reasons stated below, I strongly DO NOT believe that. I'm NOT trying to say that anyone else here should believe in life after death because of my experience's, but just read the story with compassion, and please try to hear what I'm saying.

 

 

I died for about 3 to 5 minutes back in 2002, during surgery (in the recovery room). 

 

There IS a life after death. 

 

1. I did NOT see any tunnels with a bright radiant light at the end. 

 

2. I did NOT see any sort of "God", Jesus, Buddha, Laozi, or otherwise. 

 

3. I floated to the ceiling, maybe 6 or more feet up. 

 

5. Every alarm in the place was going off, all at once. 

 

6. The surgical crew completely freaked out. I had told one (several of them really) of them if they did not do a certain thing, that I would go "code blue" on them. They did not do what I said, and I "died". 

 

7. There was complete peace where I was, in a silvery/grey kind of cloud looking down on all of this complete chaos. 

 

8. I heard EVERYTHING that was going on and saw it all too. 

 

I was amazed that all of that medical school training went out the window during a real crisis, like this.  lol 

 

I knew where each person was, and exactly what they said and did during said time of crisis. 

 

9. I DO believe that there is Something bigger then we are, I call it Dao, some may call it "God", or The Great Spirit, or many other names. 

 

10. I personally believe that we continue Living (capitol "L") after what we call "death". This is an *OPINION*. 

 

11. I was gifted with something that is very hard to put into words. I'm more telepathic, more empathic, then I ever was before this life changing incident. I "feel" people's emotions a lot more, I'm able to Love more then I ever was before this incident. I'm a Seeker more then I ever was before this incident. 

 

Frankly, I have not really put these gifts to as much of a useful purpose, as I'd like to. Perhaps that's a kind of failure, perhaps not. 

 

I'm still processing this. Still learning. 

 

12. After all of this, I read Dr. Raymond Moody's book 'Life After Life', and there was a gentleman in Dr. Moody's book, who had an almost identical experience to the one that I had, right down to the silvery grey cloud, and I was just completely blown away. 

 

I *think* that death is a kind of transition, but I firmly do not believe that it's "the end" of our human lives. 

 

I don't wish to offend anyone here by saying any of this, I just want to tell you what happened to me. 

 

The Peace of these several minutes of being "dead" was more profound then any kind of peace that I've ever experienced before. 

 

More peace then falling deeply in Love. More peace then the best physical/sexual Love Making that I've ever experienced. This also includes some tantric experiences that I've had in the past. 

 

I *THINK* that there is more beyond this, that I never got to, because I came back into my body. Which was like riding on a rubber band shot across a room. It was bizarre, literally. 

 

There is so much more that I could say, but I'll stop there. 

 

Thank you for listening, thank you for giving me a chance to share with you. 

 

Deep Peace,  Differently Abled Daoist

_________________

 

[dwai]

The body is just a shell...the True Self never ceases to exist as it was never born.

[Wu Ming Jen]

There is only life, The mind of duality has beginnings and ends. Taoist do not speculate on any after death preconceived thoughts.

 

The unknown is our home that we have never left. We come from the unknown and return to the unknown. The absolute peace is that there is nothing for the mind to attach to and we can enjoy the ride dancing to the sound of silence.

 

All illnesses vanish to dust (like coming up with made up stuff saying "this" is what happens after death)

[Marblehead]

I pretty much try to actualize life before death.  If there is anything afterwards I will work on it when that time comes.  Something like "living in the now".

[Albion]

Dear Wu Ming Jen,

 

   You said: All illnesses vanish to dust (like coming up with made up stuff saying "this" is what happens after death).

 

Are you saying that I "made this up"? Maybe I read you wrong, maybe NOT.

 

I have absolutely NO need to come on a public e-list, and *lie*.

 

You don't know me (and equally, I don't know you) but I'm NOT a liar. Period.

 

Nor did I make this up, it happened to me as surely as you got up this morning.

 

This is what happened to ME after death. If you're accusing me of lying, and making stuff up, you're WRONG.

 

​Peace in spite of adversity, Differently Abled Daoist

[Marblehead]

Yes, this is a sensitive topic  Let's keep the peace, Okay?

[Dharmakaya]

Thanks for sharing your experience!  I have read a few NDE books, and it is very interesting stuff.  I agree with you, based on my own experiences I definitely believe death is not the end of the road. 

[Albion]

The body is just a shell...the True Self never ceases to exist as it was never born.

 

Dear Dwai,

 

  This is generally what I tell *everybody* who will listen to me. This physical body is just a shell, like a glove sort of.

 

And in saying this, I DON'T mean to demean, or hold in little worth, my body (or anyone else's body for that matter). I'm certainly NOT a Gnostic, in any way!

 

But I appreciate you saying this! Thanks,  Differently Abled Daoist

Edited August 28, 2016 by DifferentlyAbledDaoist

[Wu Ming Jen]

I do not disagree with anyones personal experiences as being not real. pointing out that no one knows what happens after the body falls away is not a bad point. It is just not all about you, I apologize if you take my comments personally, not intended or implied.

[NotVoid]

Many people generalize about daoism and say things like, "daoists do this", and "daoists do not do that", etc. However, as I have pointed out here before, the term daoism covers many things, and IMO there is a wide variation in views and practices in daoism. Therefore for someone to say that daoists don't concern them self with what might happen after death is very misleading, if not completely false. Most definitely there are branches or schools or practices under the umbrella label of 'daoism' which do concern them self quite a bit with such things.

 

If you want to read a book written by a daoist from Lao Shan who goes into a lot of detail of his experience with topics such as 'life after death', and the notion of karma, etc. then you can purchase the book in PDF format translated fully into English here:

'Dao and De: Life and Afterlife' by Wu Dao Zhenzi.

http://qi.org/products/

Scroll down to the bottom of the web page for the PDF book 'Dao and De: Life and Afterlife' by Wu Dao Zhenzi.

 

As the author of this book points out, what he is describing in the book is not a belief system, where a person is just told how things are supposed to be, and they can either then believe it or not, but he describes a system of practices which the author learned as a disciple at a daoist temple which allows a person to learn about such things for them self through direct personal experience, just as we learn about the physical world around us through direct observation and experimentation. Whether any given person accepts such a premise as being potentially valid or not is not really the point, but it is the approach that the author of the book said he followed in his daoist training in a temple on Lao Shan before the cultural revolution, if I remember correctly now.

[Papayapple]

After reading your post I thought: well after all if nature takes care of the body after death and it doesnt disappear, so mustnt consciusness disappear.

[Golden Dragon Shining]

Thank you for sharing. I am interested in further, I am sure others are too, if you will. Care not for the nihilists. 

[Marblehead]

Yeah, we should let the nihilists do their own thing.

[Albion]

​Dear Not Void

 

They had to close my Paypal account down because of a hacker  (And I KNOW who it is)  broke into it, might there be SOME other way where I could purchase this book? Could you please let me know, I could send YOU the money, and perhaps you'd help me get the book??

 

Please send me a PM and let me know, OK?

 

Here is what I was *trying to say*.

 

There seems to be a preponderance of folks who call themselves Taoist/Daoist on the old Tao Bums (where I was) the old 'Dao is Open' forum (where I was) and at Derek Lin's 'Tea House' (No offense mean't Derek!), all of whom SEEM to believe in the concept of "nothingness" after death.

 

My experience clearly showed me otherwise, I had not found Daoism then (yet) but I had read the Tao Te Ching (Witter Bynner's [spelling?] translation), which I have in a box now, because the books and I are in a battle for space and the books are winning!  ;-).

 

I will try to write more this afternoon perhaps, perhaps it's wise to leave it right here.

 

If you could send me a PM, I'd like to have that book, it could join forces with it comrades, and it might add to their fun!  lol

 

Thanks a lot.

 

No offense mean't to anybody here at all, OK?

 

Keep on Daoing, Differently Abled Daoist

Edited August 29, 2016 by DifferentlyAbledDaoist

[Albion]

P.S. The last post was for 'Not Void'. Thanks D.A.D.

[Eques Peregrinus]

You might be already aware of this study, I post it just in case.

 

http://iands.org/resources/media-resources/front-page-news/1060-aware-study-initial-results-are-published.html

[Rakiel]

Thank you for sharing your NDE experience. This closely resembles one of my own OBEs

[laughingblade]

To the OP. What do you mean by "I died"? You're here now, right?

 

Death used to be defined medically as the heart stopping. This was quite a while ago. Now we know that brain activity can continue for a while after the heart stops. If the heart is restarted then the brain, and the person, can recover.

 

There is a definite and mysterious phenomenon in NDEs where folks see themselves under surgery etc. Many who have that experience are resuscitated without their hearts having stopped, that is without coming anywhere close to death.

 

My problem with people having an NDE and then saying they know what's beyond death is that it's just not so. The description is clear: "death" vs "near death". If a person didn't die then they can't say anything about death, or after-death.

 

Often the NDE experience results in big lifestyle and belief-system changes for the person. I don't understand why people start believing in life after death though. Senses are anesthetised and appear to not be operative, but the brain continues to operate. Why suddenly start believing in something if you didn't before?

[NotVoid]

​They had to close my Paypal account down because of a hacker 

 

Hi Differently. It looks like if you click on the PayPal button for the PDF book, that the PayPal web site still allows you to enter in a credit card number to pay for the item without creating a PayPal account, so it looks like you can still buy the book if you have a credit card and don't have a PayPal account. If that still doesn't work for you, you can email 'dean at qi dot org' and probably arrange to send them a money order instead. All the best...

[thelerner]

Not as dramatic as DifferentlyAbled but here's my story.   For years before I'd meditate I'd start with a preamble I consider from the vispassana tradition. 

 

I am not my body, I am that which inhabits it.

I am not my thoughts, they are like clouds passing through the sky

I am not my past, that is patterns I can choose to follow or not

I am not my future, that is imagining and fears that mean nothing

I am not my emotions, I honor them and let them fade like ripples on a pond

I am not possessions, I am not family..  yada yada

 

About 2 years ago I was having chest pain, went to the emergency room, stayed in the hospital and that morning I had an operation, not too major, but they put a spring into a vein to keep it open.  They asked if it should go through my nose or groin area.  Ofcourse I said nose. 

 

In any case.. they don't put you all the way under.  I was woozy but could still hear them.  At one point the doctor said, 'This isn't going well..' Not a good thing to hear during your heart operation.  But what can you do.  I repeated the vispasanna sayings I'd done for years and fell into a nice state of peace.  What ever will be will be.  Whatever I am.. I am.. for now..

 

Nothing as dramatic as dying, they just couldn't thread the tubing through the first choice and had to go through the groin area after all. 

[Golden Dragon Shining]

Yeah, we should let the nihilists do their own thing.

 

I was meaning to edit to materialists, though the site went down "In philosophy, the position that nothing exists except matter — things that can be measured or known through the senses. Materialists deny the existence of spirit, and they look for physical explanations for all phenomena."

 

I guess the 2 cross over at some point.

 

[Marblehead]

 

I was meaning to edit to materialists, though the site went down "In philosophy, the position that nothing exists except matter — things that can be measured or known through the senses. Materialists deny the existence of spirit, and they look for physical explanations for all phenomena."

 

I guess the 2 cross over at some point.

 

 

I am a contradiction, as Karl has already pointed out.  I am a Materialist - no spirit.  I am a Taoist - there is spirit.  One could say I have the best of both worlds.

[Albion]

Hi Differently. It looks like if you click on the PayPal button for the PDF book, that the PayPal web site still allows you to enter in a credit card number to pay for the item without creating a PayPal account, so it looks like you can still buy the book if you have a credit card and don't have a PayPal account. If that still doesn't work for you, you can email 'dean at qi dot org' and probably arrange to send them a money order instead. All the best...

 

 

 

Hi Not Void,

 

  Downloaded the book! Yay!  It took almost ALL of my ink and the printing paper is almost gone too (bummer :-(    But I DID get the book! I had NO idea that anyone in the Daoist world, wrote about life after death. Astonished I am!  ;-)  There's Yoda again, he shows up from time-to-time. Laughs. 

 

Thanks again for the link, I had just enough money to buy the book, Dao IS wonderful!

 

Welp, thank you again, it took about 2 hours, but I finally got it all.   Victory dance, as a disabled person would dance.  lol

 

Your Bro in Dao, D.A.D.

[aboo]

To the OP. What do you mean by "I died"? You're here now, right?

 

Death used to be defined medically as the heart stopping. This was quite a while ago. Now we know that brain activity can continue for a while after the heart stops. If the heart is restarted then the brain, and the person, can recover.

 

There is a definite and mysterious phenomenon in NDEs where folks see themselves under surgery etc. Many who have that experience are resuscitated without their hearts having stopped, that is without coming anywhere close to death.

 

My problem with people having an NDE and then saying they know what's beyond death is that it's just not so. The description is clear: "death" vs "near death". If a person didn't die then they can't say anything about death, or after-death.

 

Often the NDE experience results in big lifestyle and belief-system changes for the person. I don't understand why people start believing in life after death though. Senses are anesthetised and appear to not be operative, but the brain continues to operate. Why suddenly start believing in something if you didn't before?

 

According to the following article - reported in many UK newspapers - in some 'near death' experiences death does occur but the process is reversed.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/670781/There-IS-life-after-DEATH-Scientists-reveal-shock-findings-from-groundbreaking-study

 

"Scientists had believed the brain ceased all activity 30 seconds after the heart stopped pumping blood around the body, and that awareness stopped at the same time.

But research from the University of Southampton suggests otherwise.

A new study shows people continue experiencing awareness for up to three minutes after death."

[Albion]

To the OP. What do you mean by "I died"? You're here now, right?

 

Death used to be defined medically as the heart stopping. This was quite a while ago. Now we know that brain activity can continue for a while after the heart stops. If the heart is restarted then the brain, and the person, can recover.

 

There is a definite and mysterious phenomenon in NDEs where folks see themselves under surgery etc. Many who have that experience are resuscitated without their hearts having stopped, that is without coming anywhere close to death.

 

My problem with people having an NDE and then saying they know what's beyond death is that it's just not so. The description is clear: "death" vs "near death". If a person didn't die then they can't say anything about death, or after-death.

 

Often the NDE experience results in big lifestyle and belief-system changes for the person. I don't understand why people start believing in life after death though. Senses are anesthetised and appear to not be operative, but the brain continues to operate. Why suddenly start believing in something if you didn't before?

 

 

I will honestly tell you that *I do NOT know* what lies beyond the final stage of living, but Elisabeth Kubler-Ross wrote a book and called it "Death, The Final Stage of Growth".

 

Here is what I BELIEVE: The Universe (the Dao) HAS OUR BACK, if we are pursuing De.

 

I believe that we live, and die, in a Loving environment.  I felt NOTHING but PEACE, and if this was just "the first part of the experience" how much better might the later stages be?? I Believe that we are LOVED. But that's just me, and you are welcome to believe that we're NOT, or that we vanish into nothingness, but I personally find that to be a foolish and absurd idea, after what happened to me! 

 

This is truly NOT mean't to be an insult, nor to strike at you in any way. Just please give me the right to believe what I believe, and I'll do the same with you! OK, how's that?

 

We are ALL in this together, ALL of us, and the sooner that we figure this out, the better off we'll ALL be!

 

Have a really great evening, and may the Great Dao Forever Be At Your Back!

 

Differently Abled Daoist

Edited August 30, 2016 by DifferentlyAbledDaoist