Question to kunlun practitioners about fusion of five elements

[Oneironaut]

How does the kunlun method approach fusion of the five elements (if at all)? I'm referring specifically to the part of condensing all the vital organs energies into the pearl of consciousness and then shooting it out through the thrusting channel. This can be practiced over and over to learn to become conscious during the state of death.

 

If kunlun doesn't teach this can I take this element of the healing Tao system and apply it to kunlun? I ask because I'm trying to be safe and not mess myself up energetically.

 

If I'm not mistaken the above is called creating the indestructible body of light. It's how you move consciousness outside the body.

 

Does kunlun even make use of different colored pearls within its practices?

Edited August 30, 2016 by Oneironaut

[thelerner]

I don't think so. It has an 5 Element standing practice, standing still in poses representing the elements, a hard zhan zhuang practice.  No colored pearls that I know of.  Its approach, philosophy and practice seem totally different then Healing Tao.  Very little philosophy imo, and relatively simple (but not necessarily easy) practices.

[liminal_luke]

I second what Thelerner said.  Kunlun practice might accomplish the same thing as the Healing Tao practices you reference (or not, I don´t know) but it doesn´t follow anything like the same method.

 

Michael Winn, head of the US branch of the healing tao, no longer recommends shooting the pearl out the crown of the head, btw.  Says that it´s originally a Tibetan, rather than Daoist, practice and that most people end up dissipating their energies that way.  That´s what I remember anyway.  So I´d be careful about that aspect.

 

I´ve practiced both Kunlun and fusion of the five elements and like both.  They are both powerful and there´s plenty to dig into within either system.  My advice would be to pick the one you´re most drawn to and practice just that.  Either way, you won´t be missing out.

[Oneironaut]

Thanks for the replies 

 

I have a few other questions regarding kunlun. 

 

1) Is kunlun a truly more effortless form than healing tao (especially Michael Winns version of the system)? 

 

2) Does kunlun specificaly aim to achieve the goal of learning to remain/become conscious during the state of death?

 

I think a truly effortless practice is perfectly suitable for me. I wouldn't mind putting in 90 minutes a day to spiritual practice. 2 hours or more is pushing it in my very hectic life. 

[Oneironaut]

Very little philosophy imo, and relatively simple (but not necessarily easy) practices.

 

 

What makes the practices difficult?

[thelerner]

I'm not a great spokesperson for Kunlun.  I just did one seminar years ago, so there are things that I don't know- that I don't know.  I never became a regular practitioner, least never hardcore.  Its too bad that the Kunlun Forum run by the organization only lasted a 2 or so years.   There you could get information and feedback from long time practitioners, teachers and Max himself.

Thanks for the replies 

 

I have a few other questions regarding kunlun. 

 

1) Is kunlun a truly more effortless form than healing tao (especially Michael Winns version of the system)? 

 

2) Does kunlun specificaly aim to achieve the goal of learning to remain/become conscious during the state of death?

 

I think a truly effortless practice is perfectly suitable for me. I wouldn't mind putting in 90 minutes a day to spiritual practice. 2 hours or more is pushing it in my very hectic life. 

1. I find it very different then HT, hard to compare.  Kunlun is two main exercises (maybe one) and a few extras.  Healing Tao is gradual process with lots of exercises, many years long curriculum that you move through.   To me Kunlun was mostly, hit the position.. that's it.. maybe some Red Phoenix and a little standing.

 

2. Goal of Kunlun.. the goal.. hmnn.. different vocabulary then most.  You kinda got where you got.  I suppose the ultimate was enlightenment and rainbow body.   Max certainly had an otherworldly air about him as well as juice.  I met Khan, a very nice guy.. I'm sure very open and accomplished, magic.. above death.. no idea.. i tend to be skeptical but don't know.

 

I find most practices oversell there possibilities including HT and Kunlun.   I think a type of enlightenment is possible through both, but most practitioners won't get there with either.  Though they'll see some wonderful benefits in terms in terms of mind and body.  Talking about after death is above my pay grade. 

What makes the practices difficult?

Kunlun really isn't.  No more then any discipline that takes time and should be done every day is.   The main practice of hitting the position is relatively easy, certainly so is the cool off which experienced people say should not be ignored or abbreviated.   Hell, I find sitting for long periods boring and keeping the hands in that position can be tiring, as is the body movements that come from it. 

 

Not being very energy sensitive I never got the high energy opening affect some people did.  Those it effects hard should be careful and back away if things get hot or strange.  Do less, or stop for a while, let the body normalize.   Some could get 'it' from the book, most found seminars with Max to be the push they needed.  I don't know what his teaching schedule is like these days, or even if it exists or even if he's teaching the same things.   Mysterious guy. 

 

Another route, perhaps safer is Jenny Lamb, who's practice is very close to Max.  He may have learned some of it from her and its reputed to be part of her larger system.   Double checking her name I found this thread fwiw- http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/9003-sifu-jenny-lamb-on-learning-kunlun/?p=106022

Edited August 31, 2016 by thelerner

[Aetherous]

How does the kunlun method approach fusion of the five elements (if at all)? I'm referring specifically to the part of condensing all the vital organs energies into the pearl of consciousness and then shooting it out through the thrusting channel.

 

I would say the red dragon practice, being done for a long term practitioner who has also cultivated the other methods of the system.

 

Does kunlun even make use of different colored pearls within its practices? 

 

 

 

Absolutely. If you want to learn more of the system it's important to train with Max or apprentices who can teach those things.

 

1) Is kunlun a truly more effortless form than healing tao (especially Michael Winns version of the system)? 

 

 

 

Yes. The kunlun method and red phoenix methods both lead a person toward effortlessness. They are not effortless in themselves, because of course they require you to do certain things. Doing those things leads to release of effort. Same with things like the obliteration practice, perhaps the grass gliding practice, the one breath practice, etc.

 

2) Does kunlun specificaly aim to achieve the goal of learning to remain/become conscious during the state of death?

 

 

 

I'm not sure. I think the point of the light body is that it's a spiritual body, so you kind of transcend death...but I'm talking way beyond my experience here and am totally clueless about this.

[liminal_luke]

I think Kunlun and the Healing Tao practices are difficult in the same way all genuine spiritual cultivation is difficult: you don´t get very far without bumping up against aspects of yourself that aren´t pretty.

[9th]

Michael Winn, head of the US branch of the healing tao, no longer recommends shooting the pearl out the crown of the head, btw.  Says that it´s originally a Tibetan, rather than Daoist, practice and that most people end up dissipating their energies that way.  That´s what I remember anyway.  So I´d be careful about that aspect.

 

Sounds like a reference to practices towards the method of phowa - which is used to direct consciousness at the time of death into a specific realm, or into another body to continue life here.  The details on that latter practice are pretty freaky - for example it can be a corpse or a living person.