Existence, Life.

[Karl]

Note to moderators and members:

Lets remember this is the Hindu sub-forum, and not the general anything goes or blows general forum, thus I'd say that those of you want to express your p.o.v. divorced of major Hindu teachings and beliefs (which consist of thousands of years of detailed and divine dharma background) need to make their own posts in the general forum...

Point taken. :-)

[Kar3n]

Point taken. :-)

 

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Thank you, Karl

 

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[Marblehead]

Note to moderators and members:

Lets remember this is the Hindu sub-forum, and not the general anything goes or blows general forum, thus I'd say that those of you who want to express your p.o.v. divorced of and or counter to major Hindu teachings and beliefs (which consist of thousands of years of detailed and divine dharma background) need to make their own posts in the general forum...

Oops!  I didn't even notice that.  However, there are many similarities between Hindu and Daoism so I think my post above is still valid.  I will be nice. 

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

These are all some really fancy attachments to verbal noises. I'm with bam bam. Words have no meaning until you interpret them. What do these sounds mean to YOU? Is that the question? No-one knows but you.

[Jadespear]

That's a bloody good attempt. There are a lot of holes in your premesis, such as life amounting to 'energy' which is abundant throughout the universe in innanimate matter.

 

A perception of physical reality implies a consciousness capable of recognising it. Plants are alive, but they are not conscious, they are goal directed, but are without purpose-something only applicable to conscious entities.

 

The best part for me is 'first there is existence' 'then life' then 'consciousness'. That there can be life that is not conscious of existence is rarely considered. However consciousness is an axiomatic corollary of the identification of existence. We cannot get further than 'existence exists' and consciousness grasps it.

 

Many here take the opposite view, that consciousness generates the illusion of existence. That nothing really exists as a concrete reality. Some are materialist subjectivists that use 'modern' physics to illustrate that matter is just empty space. That we can't know reality at all in any sense.

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... why thank you kind sir.

 

I mean let's deconstruct it and look at it altogether, in total view as best as we can.  

 

...First of all - anything that does exist, I think we can verfiably say has been perceived by someone somewhere.  But, just because it has been perceived does not mean, if it was not perceived, that it would not exist....  

 

... Second, we enter into and so do other things when we sleep... our "active mode" of consciousness of perceiving rests, yet we still exist.....

 

...I think what we all will eventually find, is that existence - everything that is perceivable to us, is not separate from our consciousness or the consciousness that it is.  Point being - existence is conscious..... everything that has been created is endowed with consciousness, or the ability to perceive subjectively and objectively... and has energy to use at it's will.... whether or not that energy is consciously chosen to be used or is for lack of a better term "instinct".

 

The physical, astral, and mental realms that make up the entire physical universe all exist within a field of existence, that comes to be through causality, and they recreate themselves over and over again continuously in infinitude through the law of karmic action ( cause and effect ).  Hence - a buddhist axiom rings true.... reality is a reflection of itself.

 

Therefore to differentiate from what is real, unreal, true, and untrue all we have to do is recognize the simple truth and negate abstraction in place of what we can see and understand.....  if something exists it can be known, if something does not exist it can't be known, because it doesn't exist.  Things may come into existence eventually, or they may not.

 

But back to the main point - what is " existence "  .... that state of being.  It's a state of being.  Seemingly separate from a type of "consciousness" ... but it is not.  Everything is conscious.  God is always listening....  here I am using the "consciousness" separate in use from our normal thinking and perceiving mind....   that is one aspect of consciousness... not the whole thing.

 

Consciousness is.  Existence is.  I honestly believe that everything that we could know- is knowable.  I also think that the worlds of the physical plane, astral beauty, and mental transcendence fluctuate and change continuously and are therefore always in a state of flux....  a fact of "reality".

 

I don't understand what everyone is talking about when it comes to looking for this like transcendant, static state "reality"...  what reality?  It's like they're all lost following past thoughts and philosophies that have been mistranslated and misunderstood for centuries.....

[Jadespear]

That's a bloody good attempt. There are a lot of holes in your premesis, such as life amounting to 'energy' which is abundant throughout the universe in innanimate matter.

 

A perception of physical reality implies a consciousness capable of recognising it. Plants are alive, but they are not conscious, they are goal directed, but are without purpose-something only applicable to conscious entities.

 

The best part for me is 'first there is existence' 'then life' then 'consciousness'. That there can be life that is not conscious of existence is rarely considered. However consciousness is an axiomatic corollary of the identification of existence. We cannot get further than 'existence exists' and consciousness grasps it.

 

Many here take the opposite view, that consciousness generates the illusion of existence. That nothing really exists as a concrete reality. Some are materialist subjectivists that use 'modern' physics to illustrate that matter is just empty space. That we can't know reality at all in any sense.

.... ok now to answer your questions...

 

leading physicists lead to suggest that even in inanimate matter there is dark energy.  Energy that cannot be totally understood yet.  It is everywhere throughout all existence.  Most notably in space.... so there is even energy existing in blank space.

 

How do you know that plants are not conscious?  Have you spoken to our otherwise entered into the essence of a plant?  Just because they are goal directed doesn't mean they are not conscious.  In fact it points to the exact opposite.  They are goal directed - or driven by instinct because they posess intelligence different from ours, to carry out their evolved purpose... absorbing light, transforming it into energy, and exhaling...  it's like they are perfect little natural machines.    Maybe you should check out the following link - 

 

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants

 

The conscious that we generally speak of, could be called our "self-conscious"  this is only one type of conscious I believe.   Everything in existence is imbued with conscious qualities that allow it to understand and do something within the space that they are provided, find, or create for themselves....

 

...Ah yes, the old " reality is an illusion, the world is an illusion, you and I, we are an illusion...concept".  What the hell is this?  I mean for real?  An illusion is something placed upon a reality.... a real thing that exists.  You and I, and everything else exists.... there is no illusion.  The only illusion that I believe people that talk like this are referring to, is the illusion that this world, that our bodies, that everything else that we can see is the only world, or the only place to be....  and also that we are somehow living out temporary experiences inside an illusory reality....which is only an illusion because it is placed up against our ontop of some " eternal " unchanging reality....   

 

....But are you an illusion?  Pinch yourself and tell me you don't feel it.  Think to yourself and tell me you don't hear it.  Listen to the wind and tell me you don't hear it.

 

Is the sun, the moon, the stars, everything that we see an illusion.....   come on man....   this way of thinking is just not logical in the strictest sense of the word.  Yes, things change, but just because they do doesn't mean they're not real for a time...nor does it mean that there could be or could not be something beyond what we can currently see, hear, know, touch and understand.

[shortstuff]

To me, existence simply means to be. It can even be put in binary. If you exist you are 1, if you don't exist you are 0. 0 is nothing.

 

Life on the other hand, again to me, is less black and white. You can live in different ways, in different forms, and ofcourse you can choose to steer your way through life. Life is about choice. And because everyone is connected, choices you make effect everyone else.

[neti neti]

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Edited August 24, 2020 by neti neti

[C T]

Existence is spontaneous undifferentiated is-ness, pure just-ness. The substratum of consciousness, the Self of all, for there is no existence apart from Self.

 

All that appears upon this self-existent, self-luminous formlessness is Life in its myriad forms... appearances of Maya, that which isn't. Reflections revealing Self's exploration of all that can be, through boundless manifestations of that which Self is not.

neti neti

[neti neti]

On 11/22/2016 at 5:39 AM, C T said:

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Edited August 24, 2020 by neti neti

[gatito]

"In the Absolute, I do not even know that I am." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

 

If Nisargadatta said that, he was very misleading because it can be seen in two ways; one of which is completely wrong.

[neti neti]

On 11/22/2016 at 9:49 AM, gatito said:

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Edited August 24, 2020 by neti neti