(Drugs & love) - heart burns and been poisoned by too much spirituality to save it

[profounded]

Its the 4th of september and about 5 or 6 months ago I fell in love with a married woman with an extensive history of prostitution as well as an extensive substance abuse problem.. Well, I decided to take on (or fell into) the relationship with the idea that entering the world of polyamory would make this work. I had an idea of the problems that were going to arise but didn't truly grasp the agony of them until the relationship progressed.

She is intelligent and beautiful as fuck. She is primitive in nature and in that primitivity is a beauty I have not found in the civilized world, and she is also polyamorous by nature whether she admits it to herself or not. Does she not love both myself and her husband? Is she not around men all the time (::gags in anxiety:: )?

Maybe two days ago she resumed her adventures with crack, as well as drinking and smoking weed. It rips me apart because I don't see this stopping any time soon despite her telling me otherwise, and as a sober spiritual individual, I deal with the hurt in my heart seeing her destroy herself, which touches on my own insecurities as an individual which has to do with how I focused my last 8 years as a computer programmer because of the money instead of letting myself blossom as an individual, as well as the rational reality that she is going down a road that is full of suffering and possibly even death. Did she not jump out of a two story window not too long ago?

Fuck.. So I got the jesus complex burned into my brain.. Taoism too has done its numbers on me and suffering for her in this agony for her health, to be one good influence in her life, seems to be in my path. 

Quotes like:

"What is a good man but a bad man's teacher, and what is a bad man but a good man's job. Without knowing this, you will get lost."

or 

"Greatest kind of love is where you give up your life for your friends"

run through my head..

Wondering if there is a god or not runs through my head as well.. Why not leave selfishly for my own needs and leave this woman? Well that answer is simple: because I love the fuck out of her.. I'm addicted to the agony she puts me through and it truly is opening my mind to the harsh realities of life, as well as making polyamory a reality that cannot be ignored anymore...

ahh.. I'm doing my best to give myself the space to process problems as they come, and I'm doing whatever I can to grow as an individual instead of chasing money, power, and prestige..

but I'm lost, and I guess this is a plea for encouragement.. I have nothing to grab onto anymore.. and no sense of certainty.. and this house cat is having a hard fucking time loving this street cat...

what do i do? nonjudgmental, unconditional love seems all I can muster. I sometimes wonder if I am missing out by not experiencing drugs myself (I resort to a shit load of meditation which leaves me introverted and disconnected from others). 

I just read an article by OSHO talking about how drug users are using the drugs to deal with the society that conforms us to left brained systematic thinking instead of opening up the right hemisphere of creativity and such. I;m trying to do my best to see drugs in a positive light but truth is I avoid both drugs and alcohol because of the lack of sobriety that comes with them which I hold precedent in value..

I don't know.. I am also new to all these emotions and they are truly ripping me apart... If I had these emotions at age 20, hell I probably would have a drug problem myself.. but spirituality has grounded me at 30 and given me at least a good chance in dealing with this.. Just embrace and accept and love, right?

Edited September 4, 2016 by profounded

[Kar3n]

Sounds like a tough spot.

 

Drug use is usually a way of self medicating and hiding from our own reality. Is polyamory really what she wants, or is it something she just fell into and can not escape? Is there something in her past that might have sparked the polyamorous relationships and drug use? What caused this downward spiral? There is no need to answer these questions; I only ask to provoke thought beyond your own suffering.

 

Take a look at your own motivations. What drives this love for her? What is it that you get from the relationship that keeps you so bound to her? Are your actions enabling her present behaviors?

 

My best advice to you would be to run, however, you seem to be all in, and no words from me or anyone else will change that for you. So in light of that, all I can offer are words of encouragement to protect your spiritual, physical and mental health as best you can. Try to get out of the house and outside of your head for a few hours each day, do something just for yourself, feed and nurture your own soul.

 

Much love to you. I hope this all works out and you can find some peace.

[RiverSnake]

I agree with Karen's sentiment. Don't walk.....but run your ass out of this situation. Run like your house is on fire and the roof is about to collapse on you. Your too close to the situation to be of any help to her at all.

 

Furthermore the fact that your drawn to women like this means that there is an aspect of your energy body that is blocked and causing you to be drawn to this kind of women with self-destructive tendencies. This means your part of the problem that is enabling her and need to tend to your own internal garden. 

 

Unconditional Love is detached and self-less. Unconditional love is liberating and empowering. Unconditional love would remove it's self from this situation and allow her to process these life lessons on her own terms, even if that means she dies and has to learn it again next time around. That's Unconditional Love....it's detached, understanding, and completely brutal. 

 

Most people don't quit drugs and learn until there on the street giving hand jobs for crack (rock bottom) or they get killed. Don't just leave the house, leave the state or country and don't turn back. 

[joeblast]

the problem with things like crack is they nearly completely destroy your logic mechanism's wiring in the brain, as it were.  aye, beauty,  but with such a minuscule percentage of true lucidity, you're pissing up a rope, methinks.

 

[liminal_luke]

Hi Profounded,

 

I echo what Karen said about this being a tough spot, and hope you feel better soon.

 

On the surface this situation seems to be about her and you´re just along for the (bumpy) ride.  She´s using crack.  She´s jumping out of windows.  She´s destroying her life.  Naturally you love her so this is tearing you up inside.

 

But there´s so much here that has to do with you and I suggest that´s where you put your focus. You can´t keep her from making self-destructive decisions but you can decide whether or not you´re going to self-destruct right along with her.

 

There are all kinds of women in the world, and there´s a reason why you picked this particular one, with all her issues, and not somebody else.  Hope that doesn´t sound judgmental; we all pick partners to help us work through our own emotional jungles.  Yeah, she´s beautiful.  Yeah, she exudes an appealing primitivity.  But so do a lot of other women who don´t work as prostitutes and smoke dope.  So there´s something about you that gravitates towards the kind of woman that she is, and you might want to work on figuring out what that something about you is.  This figuring out, by the way, is best done with a professional therapist who can support and guide you along the way.

 

A few more thoughts

.  

You wonder if you´re missing out by not taking drugs too.  Short answer: no, you´re not.  She´s missing out on sobriety.

 

 About polyamory.  I won´t tell you that it can´t work, but it´s a hell of a lot harder than more conventional relationships.  Compared to monogamy it takes more maturity, more honesty, more gentle compassion. Polyamory isn´t the right path for people who are still making suicide attempts and struggling with drug addiction.

 

You are having a hard time right now.  So focus on yourself, take care of yourself, make decisions that support your own needs.  She´ll take care of herself or she won´t, but, either way, there´s not a darn thing you can do about it.  The most loving thing you can do, for everyone involved, is love yourself.  

 

Liminal 

Edited September 4, 2016 by liminal_luke

[profounded]

i don't know...   to run and let her die (if that is her path)..  brutal.  that is for sure.   but this suffering itself seems to be a blessing to me helping me truly realize without any sense of illusion that I am still a hurt individual..   I also know without a certainty that the boundaries of my skin is not where I end..  that in her I exist too.   part of me wants to be poisoned by the trauma that it takes to witness this first hand, and not rip off the band aid and exclude her..  why setup a boundary?  because I need to heal?   it is only in her presence I truly realize I am still wounded.

I have no promise of an afterlife or another life..  for herself or me.. i literally found myself on the streets homeless (thanks to jesus' recommendations) trying to heal these broken souls..   I understand I am not good at it, but without experience I'll never be.   So I will suffer, I understand.   I don't know..  So I will suffer.

[profounded]

Alright.. maybe I can understand I am hurting her because of my own brokenness...    but then again, what about the 10 other guys in her life that are pushing her towards drugs and drinking?  am I not a light in this darkness, and am I not an example of some kind of good?

I will take the comments about going to spend sometime loving myself to heart...   I will truly do my best and this is honestly the 3rd day I have ever had to deal with someone I love doing crack, I will get better at handling these situations, I have too.

I'll try to detach myself a bit... in a month or so I will look for places and people that provide me more healing..  RIght now, you guys and few close friends are all I have.

[Kar3n]

There is nothing you can do to change her destiny, so your running or not will have no baring on it. You can not save her from herself.

 

You can choose to set up boundaries or not. Cost vs. benefit seems a worthy place to start in examining the situation you have found yourself in. You have to ask if the cost to your well-being by not setting up boundaries with her and not working on your own issues are worth it. To what extent are you willing to damage yourself and suffer to try to protect her from herself and the "10 other guys" and why?

 

In short, save yourself. Seems selfish doesn't it? It is not though, we are no good to anyone if we are not balanced in love and respect for ourselves first.

 

[9th]

Co-dependency is a bitch.  Sometimes literally.  It takes two to tango, this is the lesson that comes far too little and far too late in such situations.  The involvement of romantic emotions and sexual intimacy is certainly the most classical form of this and also seems to be the most difficult to extricate from due to these specific attachments and entanglements.  Sometimes you want to be entangled.. to a diligent sadhana, for example - sometimes you dont... and that is what you are experiencing.  It may be a required phase to initiate a real sense of discernment in you, before the point arrives at which all is for naught - where the door to making the most of this life effectively closes for you in a permanent way.

 

It may (or may not) surprise you to know that the traditional "guru" and "disciple" dynamic is often exploited to enact exactly the same kind of end results, and is also probably one of the oldest known examples, going back much further than the invention of those terms and quite possibly language itself.  The idea of the "god-king" was not a novelty or social advancement.  It may have even served a definite (some might say beneficial) purpose in those times to some degree, which we cannot fathom today as modern peoples.

 

This documentary is a good example of an extremely lightweight version of such a scenario, and as you can see it is still amazingly destructive and complicated.  (make sure you have "adblock plus" or "ublock origin" installed in your web browser before visiting this link)

 

In 1985, Will Allen became a member of The Buddha Field, a Los Angeles area spiritual group that most would have considered a cult even then. In fact, the members openly joked about it. A recent film school graduate, Allen began to chronicle the group’s activities that centered on their leader, a mysterious individual they called The Teacher, or Michel. This incredible archive of video footage became the basis for Allen’s film.

 

The guru, a charismatic and flamboyant South American native who spent most of his time in a Speedos and Ray-Bans, promised to show his followers the enlightenment his master had shown him. He created an environment of love and acceptance and would perform a euphoric physical act on them that he referred to as Shakti; members said it would shake them like an intense LSD trip. Of course, this man - who eventually changed his name to Andreas - wasn't quite what he seemed.

 

[profounded]

9th - thank you,  I'm going to try to watch that video now.  I sometimes feel that codepedency has a way of preparing myself to be free from this in the future, given I don't have the door close on me like you say and I remain in life..   Like drinking small amounts of poison to develop an antidote.

 

Thank you everyone..  i still don't know.  I'll let the moment determine itself.  Right now life goes on and I've got an unhealthy attitude towards boundaries.

Edited September 4, 2016 by profounded

[liminal_luke]

Hi Profounded,

 

I write to you as someone who struggles with much the same issues as you.  

 

Here´s something interesting.  You know how you struggle with some of the decisions she makes?  You probably want to shake her and say stop taking crack.  It´s painful caring about someone who makes self-destructive decisions.  

 

Well, I don´t even know you at all and yet I feel a little bit about you the way you feel about her.  I want to shake you and say: Stop Being With This Woman.  Don´t you see how you´re hurting yourself?  And yet she probably won´t stop taking drugs, and you probably won´t break up with her, and it doesn´t matter one blip how much advice you get because you are both so damn stubborn!

 

Off to the shrink I go to deal with my codependence.

 

Liminal 

Edited September 4, 2016 by liminal_luke

[RiverSnake]

There are many kinds of addictions....drugs and feelings of love and attachment are among the most powerful and destructive.

 

She is addicted to chemicals that create a certain affect on her mind and emotions. This is not much different from you being addicted to the emotions her companionship creates in you. Your both addicted, recognize this. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by OldChi

[Aeran]

i don't know...   to run and let her die (if that is her path)..  brutal.

 

 

You aren't "letting" her do anything - you have no control over her behavior, she was an addict before you met her. No amount of interference or outside circumstances can cause an addict to decide to seek help with their addiction, that drive has to come from within.

 

Given how much emotional torment this is causing you, I would say you'd be better off separating yourself from this woman entirely. Your suffering alongside her isn't going to achieve anything but create more chaos in both of your lives. And to be blunt, the situation doesn't sound sustainable. Polyamorous relationships are fraught with pitfalls at the best of times, throw in the chaos of a substance abuse problem and I can't see any outcome that doesn't result in everyone involved being hurt.

 

I just read an article by OSHO talking about how drug users are using the drugs to deal with the society that conforms us to left brained systematic thinking instead of opening up the right hemisphere of creativity and such. I;m trying to do my best to see drugs in a positive light but truth is I avoid both drugs and alcohol because of the lack of sobriety that comes with them which I hold precedent in value..

 

 

I sincerely doubt OSHO was talking about crack cocaine and alcohol when it comes to "opening up the right hemisphere of creativity." There are very few substances in regular use which are more destructive to the body and mind when abused than alcohol and crack cocaine.

 

As for whether you're missing out? Only you can decide that. I think an argument can be made for "certain" drugs enhancing the quality of a persons life, opening up creativity, etc. but cocaine and alcohol aren't really among them. If you've gone this far in life without using drugs, I can't see how taking them up now would be likely to end well.

[futuredaze]

You said meditation is leaving you disconnected from others?  I recommend switching to Tai Chi then, it is a better way to get energy moving and begin a practice of cultivation.  Once you are more comfortable with Tai Chi, meditation can also be used, but I've heard from people who know way more than me that Tai Chi is better to start with.

 

Honestly, this girl sounds crazy.  You need to detach yourself at least emotionally and intellectually.  If you can't do that, you might need to detach physically too.  If you can switch to being a friend, it is possible that you can help her steer her life in a more positive direction.  For this to work, most of the effort and intention must come from her, if she can't do that then she is probably not worth dealing with IMO.

 

I was with a girl who was definitely less crazy than her, but still crazy, and that shit takes a toll on your well being.  I think this girl, if we were only friends, could have worked out since we had similar interests and stuff.  but when you become sexually involved with someone, you are sharing energy on a deeper level and it makes you vulnerable.   You start lying to yourself to justify the relationship, but in reality it is doing more harm than good.

Edited September 5, 2016 by futuredaze

[thelerner]

When the going gets crazy.. take a vacation.  You can't make a smart decision in the middle of a maelstrom. 

 

You're not this woman's husband, or keeper.  You are in a relationship that is tearing you apart.  So take a break, so you can get perspective.  Maybe 2 weeks, maybe a month.  In that time, focus on your life, your health, your well being.  Makes plans, stay busy.  

 

See how that feels, and at the end, make your decisions with a new sense of perspective.  Preferably one with limits.

 

We're not Jesus or magicians, we can't live another's persons life.   We can provide some support but we can't save them, they have to do that themselves.  When people are in a powerful downward spiral we can throw a lifeline from a distance but to wade in is to let ourselves drown along with them.

[Nungali]

yep its a tough one .... learn about the co dependency thing- that will help   ....     at least you can find solace in the fact that she doesnt have babies , that you got attached to  and now they are endangered as well  .... that really sucks ....  REALLY sucks !

 

I have been through 3 separate episodes like that  .... I mean ;  fine, adults , do whatever, but dont drag the little kids into it   . Still, you have to be really strong, centered and aware of one's own psychological problems and propensities . Dont expect to make any big changes or achievements ... its a day to day survival thing.   Errrmmm  ... then again , I am no angel myself  

 

Its been rough, but I am overjoyed to say, those kids survived and some are doing great now, my mission was to hang around and get them through to about 3 or 5 years old, if they can get that far without being fucked with - they have a much better chance of living an unwretched life. 

[Nungali]

When the going gets crazy.. take a vacation.  You can't make a smart decision in the middle of a maelstrom. 

 

You're not this woman's husband, or keeper.  You are in a relationship that is tearing you apart.  So take a break, so you can get perspective.  Maybe 2 weeks, maybe a month.  In that time, focus on your life, your health, your well being.  Makes plans, stay busy.  

 

See how that feels, and at the end, make your decisions with a new sense of perspective.  Preferably one with limits.

 

We're not Jesus or magicians, we can't live another's persons life.   We can provide some support but we can't save them, they have to do that themselves.  When people are in a powerful downward spiral we can throw a lifeline from a distance but to wade in is to let ourselves drown along with them.

 

Good advice !   One has to realize when taking such a break that you too are addicted - expect to go through some 'withdrawals' , when you come out the other side with clarity, you will wonder what the hell you were doing !  

 

Also , one cant be whimpy about this ... after all, one didnt like the others addictions and hoped they would be rid of it ...  cant expect them to do that if you cant ! 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Nungali

[9th]

I doubt everyone can personally relate to your situation, profounded - but some of us here can.  I am one of them.  I know what it is like to be predisposed to intensity, thrills, extreme emotions and sensations and so forth.  Along with this is usually something described as an "addictive personality", because obsessiveness is also a key facet of this mindset.  There is a much stronger element of fixation involved in such people, because that is simply required to hold on or continue with such "extreme" activities, which are disruptive by their very nature.  When you mix in codependency, its a superbad combo - incredibly volatile.  People like us gravitate to each other because we know that our combined forces will further amplify the whole situation in an exponential way - as in, the sum is greater than the parts.  It all fits together like that.  I know a handful of guys that always attract "crazy" girls, much like myself, and being able to observe them has given me the space to see things I would have liked to avoid seeing in myself.  Eventually I came to realize all sorts of things about myself and my situation, and by then I had created enough objectivity in my personal situation that I could step out of myself to a certain degree and move on with life by choice, as opposed to by impulse (or reflex... in other words, automatically).  This is may help you proceed as well.  

 

Perhaps we should go back a bit and relive some of the madness...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cn1Y_XF4E4

 

_{I don't think I am what I was before}

_{I never watched anyone die before}

_{I wish I'd never left home}

_{I wish I'd left it alone}

 

_{Temptation is a disease}

_{You can never do as you please}

_{Your body takes over and your mind don't care}

_{Never think twice what might happen... out there}

 

_{Go straight in for the ultimate sin}

_{nobody else ever seems to care}

 

_{So I took what I thought was mine}

_{And I waited for a very long time}

_{And I thought I knew what happened to you}

_{you told me exactly what to do}

_{I did it right, stayed up all night}

_{I Felt like killing myself for you}

 

_{I don't think I think like I did before}

_{I never watched anyone die before}

_{I felt like I died as well}

_{The look the words the smell}

_{The way you looked at me}

_{As if I'd never be free}

_{I remember the words like a favorite song}

_{'cause I cant forget the way things went wrong}

_{Faked a picture of perfect health}

_{Then I realized I was killing myself}

 

_{I don't think I am what I was before}

_{I never watched anyone die before}

 

_{I dream in slow motion and I wake up screaming}

[Brian]

I didn't get but a few lines into the OP before the response "Run!" became obvious.

[Andrei]

 

I'm addicted to the agony she puts me through

 

You are addicted to your own dopaminergic brain pathways that you activate when doing things or think about doing things. The drugs work exactly in the same way just more intense. When the dopamine worns out it drops and create the "blues", the depression after sex or after drugs. It is the emotional roller coaster that we all are running after.

 

So if you understand that you drug yourself with her presence/absence this is exactly the same thing when she drugs herself with many other things or persons.

 

Unconditional love is when you understand this and let it go.

[Andrei]

Another thing is: The first rule of unconditional love is to love yourself first.

[9th]

On 9/6/2016 at 9:47 AM, 9th said:

 

_{Temptation is a disease}

_{You can never do as you please}

_{Your body takes over and your mind don't care}

_{Never think twice what might happen... out there}

 

_{Go straight in for the ultimate sin}

_{nobody else ever seems to care}

 

_{So I took what I thought was mine}

_{And I waited for a very long time}

_{And I thought I knew what happened to you}

_{you told me exactly what to do}

_{I did it right, stayed up all night}

_{I Felt like killing myself for you}

 

_{I don't think I think like I did before}

_{I never watched anyone die before}

_{I felt like I died as well}

_{The look, the words, the smell}

_{The way you looked at me}

_{As if I'd never be free}

_{I remember the words like a favorite song}

_{'cause I cant forget the way things went wrong}

_{Faked a picture of perfect health}

_{Then I realized I was killing myself}

 

_{I don't think I am what I was before}

_{I never watched anyone die before}

 

_{I dream in slow motion and I wake up screaming}