Does Chinese Civilization Come From Ancient Egypt?

[KuroShiro]

"A new study has energized a century-long debate at the heart of China´s national identity."

 

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/02/did-chinese-civilization-come-from-ancient-egypt-archeological-debate-at-heart-of-china-national-identity/

[Marblehead]

I would find that idea very, very, very, very, very difficult to accept.

 

Similarities are absent.

[thelerner]

I wouldn't be too surprised at echoes from ancient cross cultural ties. 

Egypt being at the heart of China's identity.. no. 

 

Egypt was the extraordinarily powerful for 3,000 years.  Its trade and culture reached far. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by thelerner

[Nungali]

I only read a bit of that article - it seems like rubbish to me ; firstly the terms 'Chinese people' and 'civilisation' are swapped back and forth as if they were the same thing .   As far as the people go ... I leave that up to geneticists , so far I have seen no such correlation .    As far as the  civilisation goes .... the same , I have never seen such similarities. 

 

The beginning quotes about the river dont match up at all ??? 

 

How does this ;   “Northwards the stream is divided and becomes the nine rivers - Reunited, it forms the opposing river and flows into the sea.”

match up with this  ;  "  Sun then showed a map of the famed Egyptian river and its delta — with nine of its distributaries flowing into the Mediterranean. "    - he also fudged on the audience question 

 

I like the 'a map '      shown with 9  'distributaries'   ... here is another   'a map'  

 

 

 

The furthest link we know of here  at this time is the trade link (mostly with Lapis Lazuli )  between Egypt and  (now named ) Afghanistan .   

[Silent Answers]

I would find that idea very, very, very, very, very difficult to accept.

 

Similarities are absent.

China has secret unmarked pyramids that are off limits and unpublicized, and mummified Caucasian bodies with red hair. Not that these facts prove the two peoples are related, but still, thought provoking at least. Edited September 5, 2016 by Silent Answers

[Apech]

One nation two threads.

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/41874-does-chinese-civilization-come-from-ancient-egypt-foreign-policy/?p=706757 

[Aeran]

It's an interesting theory, but there's a real dearth of evidence there. But who knows for sure? Like the future, our conception of the past is constantly shifting based on our experience of the present.

[9th]

All of the most ancient civilizations of the East (egypt, sumeria, india, china) are related to each other by way of the so-called "lost" civilization that came before the global flood catastrophe, and the survivors that passed on their accumulated knowledge.

 

Eventually there will be enough publicly known evidence to connect all the dots, but at the moment there is too much resistance to make any real progress in this field - which is based on a need to uphold the status quo for various reasons.  There is a great deal of evidence already out there that is more or less suppressed, as well as plenty of necessary research that is consistently denied by various authorities.

[Gerard]

NO.

 

[Nungali]

China has secret unmarked pyramids that are off limits and unpublicized, and mummified Caucasian bodies with red hair. Not that these facts prove the two peoples are related, but still, thought provoking at least.

 Of course I dont suppose these 'secret unmarked pyramids' that are off limits and unpublicizised can be used as any sort of evidence ?  Such parameters usually define gossip, not any valid evidence of theory or even postulation. 

 

'Caucasians' with 'red hair' ?  One thing about Caucasians is they have a huge variation within their classification.  They may have been found in what we today call China.  Your classic Caucasian  , if there is suck a thing', could be well exampled by a 'Tajik' , who , even within their group, have a wide ethnic range ; 

 

 

Tajik Trio

The Tajik people are one of the 56 official ethnic groups in China that primarily reside in Xinjiang. They have their own Autonomous County that borders Tajikistan near Kashgar and their nomadic population of 41,000 is majority Muslim. From the photographer 62lofu:

 

Besides, there is no evidence that 'Egyptians' were Caucasians .

 

However this could be some evidence of  early extensive trade routes and an early 'unknown' civilization , not a 'world developing ' civilization but a significant one in the area.  Thing is, it is only really unknown in the west, up until about 1970.  Their 'Empire' ventured into  W 'China' ,  NE India and up through Kazakhstan and   to  NE Turkey, however they seemed ignorant of anything SW and down into the Tigris / Euphrates basin .  Although their goods may have passed beyond this and reached Egypt. 

 

I have numerous posts scattered about this forum on this subject. 

 

I think they were  related to the Chinese ,   by trade at least.

 

I mean, one only has to see where one of their main centers was  established , near (latter) Samarkand , to the east a giant valley cuts through the mountains , part of the southern  ' Silk Route' . Also this was a major cross roads, the other direction lining India to the northern (Siberian and Russian) Steppe countries (perhaps where these first chariot and horse people came from - Andronova culture ?  )

 

All of this is before Darius even the earliest hint of the 'Persian' , so pre-history.  The first Persia Empire incorporated this old Empire into its eastern satrapy organisation, but still even then we hear little of it until Alexander went there , where he supposedly built multiple cities in record time  (conquered already existing ones , more likely ).  

Edited September 8, 2016 by Nungali

[Nungali]

All of the most ancient civilizations of the East (egypt, sumeria, india, china) are related to each other by way of the so-called "lost" civilization that came before the global flood catastrophe, and the survivors that passed on their accumulated knowledge.

 

 

Nah, thats a bit of wild postulation there and supposins ... no evidence in yet to assume that  ^   ,   reasonably .  No evidence of global flood either .

 

Except the Bible ... but you would have to be a fundamentalist Christian to accept that 'evidence' .  

 

 

 

 

 

Eventually there will be enough publicly known evidence to connect all the dots,

 

 

Ummmm ,  well, thats a prediction. if this isnt an an attempt at being psychic,  and you think this is actually going to happen because of trends in this area or other finds unknown to me , please outline them.

 

 

but at the moment there is too much resistance to make any real progress in this field -

 

HUH ?  Man, since I have been studying anthropology HEAPS of real progress has been made in this field , its actually pretty exciting .... well, for me .  Our whole ideas about ancient man are being reassessed !  Have you seen my posts here on Orkney  Archaeology site ? 

 

 

which is based on a need to uphold the status quo for various reasons.  There is a great deal of evidence already out there that is more or less suppressed, as well as plenty of necessary research that is consistently denied by various authorities.

 

What evidence is being suppressed ?  What research is denied by authorities ?     I mean validly , that is ,  you cant expect taxpayers money to go into digging up a fake pyramid in Bosnia or letting some  unqualified nut carve up ancient Egyptian artifacts ....... can you ?  

Edited September 8, 2016 by Nungali

[rex]

All of the most ancient civilizations of the East (egypt, sumeria, india, china) are related to each other by way of the so-called "lost" civilization that came before the global flood catastrophe, and the survivors that passed on their accumulated knowledge.

This idea is attention grabbing and plugs in with legends of Atlantis and a pre-flood Atlantean disaspora to escape the deluge. Graham Hancock had a thought provoking TV series on elements of a shared trans-continental civilisation (some episodes might be knocking around youtube). This is the book from the series: https://www.amazon.com/Heavens-Mirror-Quest-Lost-Civilisation/dp/0385258941/. Edited September 8, 2016 by rex

[KuroShiro]

 

All of the most ancient civilizations of the East (egypt, sumeria, india, china) are related to each other by way of the so-called "lost" civilization that came before the global flood catastrophe, and the survivors that passed on their accumulated knowledge.

 

 

Nah, thats a bit of wild postulation there and supposins ... no evidence in yet to assume that  ^   ,   reasonably .  No evidence of global flood either .

 

Except the Bible ... but you would have to be a fundamentalist Christian to accept that 'evidence' .  

 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the great flood is mentioned in the Tanakh and the Old Testament (Book of Genesis). The Old Testament is based on the Tanakh so being Christian has nothing to do with it.

 

 

Flood Myth:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

 

http://thetorah.com/noahs-flood-story/:

 

"The story of a Great Flood sent by God or the gods to destroy civilization as an act of divine retribution is widespread; there are the  legends of Matsya in the Hindu Puranas, of Deucalion in Greek mythology, there are stories from China, and in the Americas the Toltecs, Aztecs and Inca are just some of those who told similar tales. Closest to the biblical narrative (...) is the episode of Utnapishtim, Noah’s equivalent in the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh. Fragments have been found of earlier versions, in Sumerian, dating back to the third millennium BCE, long before Genesis; Sumerians call the hero Ziusudra, meaning ‘he saw life.’"

[Marblehead]

I still haven't figured out how Noah got kangaroos and all the other marsupials.

 

Regarding the stories of a "great flood", I'm pretty sure that you will find no consistency as to when it happened.

 

I mean, come on, floods happen even today.

[Nungali]

Yep, thats it Marbles ...  there are MYTHS about big floods, some of which may be  pre-historic memory, some which are clearly  myth / symbolic.

 

Some places  did have a significant flood mythology ... I mean , the 'cradle of civilization' - have a look at the Tigris Euphrates basin and delta ... and what is up in their watersheds !   Low lying settlements made of mud brick ..... whoosh - gone ! 

 

I cant imagine the same for Sth American cultures up in  the mountains      

 

central Asia , another 'cradle of civilization' ,  no real flood myth there , a different dynamic was happening there ,   a 'freezing' is described and the first 'ark' a type of underground shelter for people and animals  (utilizing the underground temperature ? ) - the 'younger dryas' ? , later there a was  warm period and melt , that caused some flooding, later the more common problem was drying out .

 

Much of the western Mediterranean was effected by tidal waves , a type of flood,    when Santorini went off. 

 

There is no 'global flood' records in Australia, but the indigenous memory is good enough to recall, in detail, stories going back to the sea level rise at the end of the last ice age, again, a sea level rise, not some world wide flood.  Although in low lying coastal areas,  coastal flooding would be significant and  could have given rise to some myths.  We also have to consider what earlier people meant by 'the world'   - the part of the world that was known to them  -  actually.

 

 

I will withdraw  my comment about having to be a  fundamentalist Christian  ... apparently a fundamentalist anything will do .... even a 'Handcock fundie '       ( who, by the way is modern woo author and has no credibility whatsovever .... in circles where people SERIOUSLY study these things)  .

Edited September 8, 2016 by Nungali

[Nungali]

I still haven't figured out how Noah got kangaroos and all the other marsupials.

 

 

 

Kangaroos are very good swimmers ; BIG strong back legs and tail, strong arms and shoulders .   One just about drowned my mates pit bull, the stupid dog tried to catch it, roo went in a creek, dog after him .... probably would have drowned if mate had not clubbed the roo across the head with a tree branch while it was holding the dog under .   roo blinked, looked at mate and swam away .... he was lucky , could have been TWO down. 

[Nungali]

Oh ... and the other marsupials ?     They were in the kangaroos pouches while they swam around    

[Marblehead]

Kangaroos are very good swimmers ; BIG strong back legs and tail, strong arms and shoulders .   One just about drowned my mates pit bull, the stupid dog tried to catch it, roo went in a creek, dog after him .... probably would have drowned if mate had not clubbed the roo across the head with a tree branch while it was holding the dog under .   roo blinked, looked at mate and swam away .... he was lucky , could have been TWO down. 

 

Just recently I saw a clip on TV very much like that.  Two dogs, one smart enough to not mess with the roo.   The other not so smart.  The roo got into the water and could easily stand.  The dog had to swim.  Bad situation for the dog.  Roo beat the crap out of the dog and almost drowned it.  Luckily the owner finally caught up with his dogs and call them off and the roo hit the road.

[Nungali]

Must be time for a pic of Roger  

 

 

 

 

 

" Smile Roger ... smile ...  "     -    Ummmm ....   Lady, I wouldn't  get too close with that camera  .... 

 

[Marblehead]

When I was working out regularly with weights I was never able to get that much mass and tone but then I never really wanted to go that far.

 

Those boys certainly take care of themselves and true, most of the boys don't like people or any other animals getting too close to them.

[Nungali]

Not unless you are a 'whisperer' .  Apparently most people misinterpret their own dogs' reactions and behavior ..... I suspected as much. Poor dogs, heaps seem confused when with some people . 

 

Coincidentally , these 'Caucasian mummies in China' dudes , if they were who I think they were , got where they did ( ie. advanced early civilization ) due to the dog, as well as the horse and cattle.  It seems the main 4 things were horse (and its application to pull a cart), cattle and the dog ...... makes sense .....  if you ever lived on a farm .  Dogs had citizenship rights and orders of protection around them in their first societies. 

[Marblehead]

I occasionally watch a little bit of that program out of Aussieland about the roo whisperer.  What's his name?  Kangaroo Dundee?  Or something like that.  And even he is very cautious when approaching one of the roos he raised from baby to when released into the wild.  Seems that once they have tasted freedom in the wild they forget everything of the past.

 

Just last night I saw a brief documentary about a mummy collection in Sicily.  Supposed to be the biggest on the planet.  Many are very well preserved.

 

But sure, there have been migrations of people from place to place for tens of thousands of years.  Totally understandable that between ice ages migrants from Eastern Europe and Western Asia migrated into what is now China. 

 

I recall that a while back that remains of what may have been a group of Greek female warriors in one part of China. 

[Nungali]

We have them come over here sometimes too , it can be pretty popular ....  for some . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

I prefer a wet t-shirt contest.

[Marblehead]

PS  I think we may have gone off topic in this thread.