Chinese swordsmanship texts sought

[exorcist_1699]

Exorcist,

 

thank you very much!  Sounds great.

 

Maybe you could team up with someone experienced in swordsmanship to translate it? 

 

In the meantime, I'll check if the text has been translated into Russian.  

 

 

Hi Taomeow,

 

Glad to talk with you again . 

Your proposal sounds interesting , maybe I will come across someone that I can cooperate with, 

try my best ...

 

Exst

[Taomeow]

@Dawei: 

Thank you so much!  This is very cool!  

 

@ Exorcist:

Glad to talk with you again too!  Yes, that would be awesome. 

 

I used to make technical translations for a living, and I would always sit down with an engineer to have the stuff I was to translate explained to me, pick his or her brain regarding the terminology used, and have the thing or process described by the term elucidated.  One can't be a specialist in everything-that-is, but knowing a language and teaming up with a specialist who knows the subject wins that battle. 

 

 

 

OK, let me fess up.  My teacher once compared taiji skill of a master to one of those three-legged ding cauldrons -- the three legs being the form, the tuishou, and the weapon.  Ding was in use from the Bronze Age and still is today, because it is a kind of thing that is complete and perfect for its purpose -- nothing is excessive and nothing is missing.  If any one of its three legs is missing, however, the ding can't stand on its own -- or to get back from the metaphor, the skill is not complete and therefore can't be perfect.  But even if all three legs are there yet one or two are shorter, it's shaky and unstable.  So, I need to lengthen two of the legs, because my form "leg" is way longer (by years).  I don't really need to draw the jian from the back, all I need is practice, there's plenty to work on without getting into any uncharted territory,  and yet--

 

and yet I have a vision-memory-dream, not sure what else to call it, it's not a daydream and not in my head, it's something my body is trying to remember...  it's like forgetting how to ride a bicycle and yet knowing what riding a bicycle feels like...  so this drawing from the back move is something along these lines, as though something in me knows how to do it but I can't get to it.  Weird, huh?  Past life?  Kung fu movies?  Who knows...   It itches between my shoulder blades, this unobtainium...

Edited September 8, 2016 by Taomeow

[leth]

For anyone interested in good translations of real historical manuals I recommend: http://www.chineselongsword.com/

[leth]

Something I've heard about the Jian was that it was only traditionally kept sharp at the last 2-3 inches, but I don't know what tradition this is from or how widespread it was.

 

This is true for most swords in most parts of the world.

 

Or atleast the idea that you keep a sword sharp towards the tip, and keep it dull towards the hilt, the degree of this varies.

Edited September 9, 2016 by leth

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I often feel that angles of sharpening are left out of the conversations regarding edged tools and weapons.

Standards and anomalies have varied much through ages and regions as much as between schools and idividuals as they do today with all the science and information available to us.

Even ricassos seem to have wandered in and out of sword design even in china.

Im pretty sure variation is visible on early human cutting and stabbing implements. Different tools for different jobs and all that.

 

Provided one puts a little time into learning how it's pretty easy to make and maintain a consistent and even varied angle on a blade, even with the most low-tech stuff

 

For example, i've understood the tradition i'm learning in prefers most of the blade being cutting sharp but only the tipmost 5th is kept razoresque, for Gim/Jian at least.

Further down it's still paper cutting sharp and the last part is not at all dull: A friction dragging cut (over the bridge during a parry-counter for example) that starts at midpoint of the blade moving towards the hilt should cause and worsen a nasty laceration while the hissing sharp tip comes close to ones co-fencers head. If they move even a little, a quick peck or flick could cause a deep wound.

Gim are gentleman weapons because you can incapacitate someone without mortally wounding or debilitating them permanently, should you want to. If on the offhand chance your oppoment is not one of the gentle group, the gentlemanly kill would probably be some form of deep stab to organs or a decisive slash-flick to the throat or femoral artery.

Our gim have no ricasso and the 1/3 closest to the hilt is supposed to be sharp but sturdy enough to survive some serious contact.

This, in my thinking at least, points to an degree of narrowing in angle of sharpening from hilt to tip as well as a slight taper of the blade profile, giving a sturdy structure that manouvers easily because the weight comes back to the hilt.

 

Compare those proportions to the front heavy Dao, general of weapons (or is that the Gek?).

While they seem to have been kept hysterically sharp too, the angle of sharpening ought to have been a lot wider near their point of percussion, much like a machete or even an axe.

A narrow angle gives the advantage of deep cuts but get easily wedged stuck or damaged in denser materials while a wide one (especially if rounded) would cut and separate the material much quicker and increase the splitting potential rather than getting stuck. The latter would be preferrable for Daos considering all those cool moves that look great for lobbing of a limb: cutting muscle and shattering bones at the same time. Very generally, a general wouldnt be faffing about, killing someone is quick amd efficient, punishment by cutting an arm off is efficent.

I'm not saying there's no finesse to them, just that their intended use and properties make for a very different approach.

At some point people started putting a second edge along the tipmost part of a daos spine for reverse cuts, i'm pretty sure they would be of a narrower angle since a wide one wont cut very deep as easily as a gim. Unless you're a moron like me and accidentally drag your finger along the belly of your chopper and almost slice the pulp of your index finger off on a combined 75 degree edge.

 

My trusted source says two handed drawing (including back carry iirc) is used in some southern traditions but i havent had the chance to ask for specifics as of yet, i hope to remember next time.

The gim he advocates are reported to have been shorter than most commercially available today, making them quicker to handle and draw, easy to listen with (as in push hands "listenting"), hide along the arm and allowing better access to close quarters in battle. Long swords move slow and when someone is inside your radious there are few ways to get them back close to your tip.

 

EDIT - fixed it because: Oh dear, a quick review revealed i basically sleepwrote the first incarnation of this post thinking it was an interesting tangent. At least it's coherent now.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Rocky Lionmouth