Energy transmission and sharing - a debate

[Apech]

Energy transmission and sharing

 

I want to open a debate about energy transmission – particularly that done over the internet especially this site. There’s been a lot of talk about this recently in connection with the chatroom and the ‘sexcapades’ thread. Particularly whether it’s ok or not as a practice and what if such energy sharing includes what might be termed astral sex.

 

I know some members do not believe in any of this but I would like to ask them to stay out of this debate (yes I mean you Karl ) as it is a debate for practitioners. I’m not interested in debating the possibility of energy transmission happening in the first place. So any posts along those lines will be reported. So don’t bother.

 

The purpose of this debate is to get some agreement and clarity over what is energy transmission between people, when it is ok and when it is not. Should it be something that happens at DaoBums and if so how should it be handled by the staff (Admin and mods).

 

To kick off the debate and give some objectivity I’m going to use terms from Damo Mitchells ‘White Moon on the Mountain Peak’ Chapter 10 ‘Tranmission Teaching’ - to which I am going to add a category of my own which is not strictly about teaching.

 

So these are the types of teachings he mentions in his book:

 

1 ) qi level teaching

 

The most common form where the teacher has developed suffiently that their LDT generates an energy field which transmitts energy/information to his pupils.

 

2 ) shen level tranmission

 

Where the MDT of the teacher is suffiently developed so that ‘information can be directed upwards from this and then out via the third eye region of the head into a student.’

 

This type of transmission can be general to a group, or targetted to individuals and also can involve channeling a higher entity or deity.

 

3 ) emptiness Level transmission

 

This is the most advanced form of training where just the presence of the master causes the student to shift into the Wuji state.

 

To these levels given in Damo’s book I think we can add:

 

a ) normal interaction.

We are mostly already cultivators here on DBs at various levels of progress. During normal interchange and posting it is likely that we will pick up radiation/vibrations – call them what you will – from the other person. This is really just normal as ina real life conversation as well as the words there is a dialogue of impressions, body language and so on going on. Its not really a transmission in the conscious sense but just a byproduct of the presence of energy in our lives.

 

b ) astral sexual relations

 

Yes! Really. This also has two aspects:

 

i ) individuals who wish to engage in this activity in private but using the board as the medium.

 

ii ) the use of sexual imagery to boost energy exchange one-to-one or in groups.

 

 

I’ll lay my cards on the table and say that I did object to general Chat being used for group energy work. But my objection was misunderstood as being a complete objection to energy work. This was not the case. I simply found that it was impossible to carry on normal chat with this going on in the background. The group concerned had two other web sites they use and so I thought that they should take their practice there.

 

This seems to resulted, indirectly, to a rule being imposed for the chat room ‘no sexcapades’. I prefer a minimum of rules and a maximum of freedom of expression. But I understand there are sensitivities around this so ... let’s debate what they are.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Apech

[ralis]

Thanks Apech! I will have some comments later as to my chat experience which I hope will lend a bit of insight.

[Karl]

I shall remain well clear as I always do on such topics -though I should state for the record that human energy exchange on any level is part of economics. :-) just to get in my t'penneth as the result of you specifically mentioning me in your your thread ;-)

[Jeff]

I think that this is a very interesting, but challenging topic as it is all based upon individual perceptions.  What the individual mind filters and translates...

 

Additionally, different spiritual practitioners have different "frequency ranges" that they can consciously notice.  One person's sexual feeling, may be another persons heat or soft vibrations.  When people feel/notice energy, they are not really feeling the energy flow, but noticing the energy "hitting" obstructions, issues and fears. 

 

Even "just chatting" is a form of energy transmission.  It is more about the focus and natural "radiance" of many individuals. If an immortal showed up in the chatroom and started just chatting... I am sure that anyone with any degree of spiritual openness would feel it... and probably swoon a little.

[liminal_luke]

I´ll share some initial thoughts.

 

Energy in any form should not be intentionally shared without informed consent.  It´s just standard ethics, the same as for anything else.  You tell people what you´re proposing to do before you do it, what the likely consequences will be, everybody gets to say yes or no.  If the energy cannot be shared without misting casual bystanders with sexual vibes then don´t do it.

 

This goes for any kind of conscious energetic interaction: healing, astral sex, hypnotic trance, shaktipat... whatever.

 

Energetic exchange should not take place between Bums unless both members are over the age of 18.

 

If the proposed energetic exchange might infringe on "quiet enjoyment" rights of other Bums, by making it impossible to have a normal non-sexually charged chat in the chatroom for example, then it should take place off-site.

 

Liminal 

[liminal_luke]

I think that this is a very interesting, but challenging topic as it is all based upon individual perceptions.  What the individual mind filters and translates...

 

Additionally, different spiritual practitioners have different "frequency ranges" that they can consciously notice.  One person's sexual feeling, may be another persons heat or soft vibrations.  When people feel/notice energy, they are not really feeling the energy flow, but noticing the energy "hitting" obstructions, issues and fears. 

 

Even "just chatting" is a form of energy transmission.  It is more about the focus and natural "radiance" of many individuals. If an immortal showed up in the chatroom and started just chatting... I am sure that anyone with any degree of spiritual openness would feel it... and probably swoon a little.

 

Good point.  We are always sharing energy, usually unconsciously, whether we want to or not.  And sometimes that energy is sexual.  But it´s one thing to simply be who you are, emitting your particular vibration in a natural way.  Another thing to consciously set out to create an energetic happening in someone else with directed intention.

 

Nothing can or should be done about the ordinary vibrational mixing that´s going to happen whether we like it or not, simply because that´s how things work.  Intentional energy work is something else.

[Jeff]

Good point.  We are always sharing energy, usually unconsciously, whether we want to or not.  And sometimes that energy is sexual.  But it´s one thing to simply be who you are, emitting your particular vibration in a natural way.  Another thing to consciously set out to create an energetic happening in someone else with directed intention.

 

Nothing can or should be done about the ordinary vibrational mixing that´s going to happen whether we like it or not, simply because that´s how things work.  Intentional energy work is something else.

 

 

Yes, you also raise a excellent point on the "unconscious" energy sharing part.  That is very common as many members do not even notice that they are doing it.

 

We all have sort of a bubble of what we consciously perceive, but ultimately we are all part of a greater "whole".  Connections (or shared oneness) is a natural part of existence.

[ralis]

My estimation is that most have no clue as to the power of these forces and are only asking for trouble. I will elaborate more later.

[dawei]

Nice topic... some comments within

 

Energy transmission and sharing

 

The purpose of this debate is to get some agreement and clarity over what is energy transmission between people, when it is ok and when it is not. Should it be something that happens at DaoBums and if so how should it be handled by the staff (Admin and mods).

 

In my view, transmission has two levels of meaning:  It can be the outwardness of energy going from one to another, or it can be like a mode or state... In the latter sense, someone is in a transmitting state to mean that is the inclination of their energy, or maybe dominant side of their energy loop.

 

So the other side would be a receptive side to close the loop.  If energy goes out, it has to be received... and those that can sense a transmission are being receptive in the sense that it came to them.    Some are in a more receptive mode or state in their natural state.

 

 

To kick off the debate and give some objectivity I’m going to use terms from Damo Mitchells ‘White Moon on the Mountain Peak’ Chapter 10 ‘Tranmission Teaching’ - to which I am going to add a category of my own which is not strictly about teaching.

 

So these are the types of teachings he mentions in his book:

 

1 ) qi level teaching

2 ) shen level tranmission

3 ) emptiness Level transmission

 

a ) normal interaction.

 

b ) astral sexual relations

 

i ) individuals who wish to engage in this activity in private but using the board as the medium.

 

ii ) the use of sexual imagery to boost energy exchange one-to-one or in groups.

 

I don't know much about this and asked another I thought better versed in astral stuff... but seems there is a third more common way and that is meeting someone on the astral plane and engaging in it (whether they are aware or not).

 

Not sure if the mention of 'consort' practices mentioned in another thread falls under this or is just a c)...

 

I’ll lay my cards on the table and say that I did object to general Chat being used for group energy work. But my objection was misunderstood as being a complete objection to energy work. This was not the case. I simply found that it was impossible to carry on normal chat with this going on in the background. The group concerned had two other web sites they use and so I thought that they should take their practice there.

 

I would like to clarify that I understood your original concern of group energy work but we can defined within the same group as group energy work, even though that is one-on-one.   So the choice at hand seems to be, either discriminate against one group's use but allow other's groups use, or just remove energy work from main chat for now...   This latter decision was mine.    As mentioned else where, Sean is quite surprised but I've not given him the full explanation so he would understand. 

 

This seems to resulted, indirectly, to a rule being imposed for the chat room ‘no sexcapades’. I prefer a minimum of rules and a maximum of freedom of expression. But I understand there are sensitivities around this so ... let’s debate what they are.

 

Yes, you mentioned yesterday a more 'informal' approach.   As folks didn't seem to think they should stop on their own or whether others were feeling the effects of such stuff, I received complaints of folks feeling it and it affecting their dreams.   So, we are now where we are... 

 

Thanks for the thread.

[Miffymog]

Thank you for this thread Apech.

 

Actually, there are a number of threads on this kind of topic and I think that they are a good thing. When I first started reading through Daobum threads 3 years ago, I was quite anxious at the time and this made me sensitive to subtle energies. I found that I could only come to this website about once a week as after reading a few threads I was 'knocked for six' energetically.

 

I don't believe this had anything to do with any negative intentions within the website, it was more a case of – those who come here tend to be more energetically sensitive, and people here give off these vibrations in their posts.

 

I was in such a place that even these small amounts of vibrations would take time for me to process. Its strange that I really don't feel this any more here, which is nice. That is in part due to the fact that I'm in a better place now and also I'm not naturally tuned in to those things.

 

But, this does go on, either consciously or subconsciously and just discussing it and bringing it into our awareness where it can be better processed is only a good thing.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Miffymog

[ralis]

In terms of energy work, there is a New Age idea that it is just energy which implies a soft fuzzy thing to play with. In my experience that is naive and possibly dangerous.

 

When two or more persons share energy amongst themselves, an intentional link is created which links emotions, feelings, trauma, intentions, unconscious or hidden agendas. Further, elemental forces may be attracted to such an exchange.

[ralis]

It seems to me that humans are generally on uncharted ground in regards to this phenomenon?

[Taomeow]

Someone please explain to me what the purpose of "astral sex" with strangers might be?..  

 

I'm not questioning its impact, I'm questioning its motivation.  Sex can be one of three things energy-wise -- an exchange/modulation/refining, i.e. cultivation; a giving without such refining -- crude as-is offering of whatever the giver has to give; or a taking, with or without the donating party's consent, and usually without understanding, of the same as-is crude energy of the donor. 

 

Far as I know, a successful cultivational exchange (on any plane, not just astral) is something possible only between individuals who share more than the sexual interaction, its prerequisite is intimacy -- knowing yourself, caring for your partner.  In every other case, it's one-sided --  one takes, the other donates.  The energy may be exchanged on the level of shen, but the source tapped into is jing, and jing can only be replenished when sex is intimate, involving -- gasp -- love.  Jing can't be replenished bypassing the heart shen, it has no other way to go back, you have to actually go through the fire and place it under water (love under life), otherwise it can't go downward, only up, into dissipation and waste in whatever "higher realms" -- out and up and away from life.  

 

You are not dealing with mechanical forces when you're dealing with jing-qi-shen.  You are in the realm of meaningful transformations.  If the meaning is misunderstood, the energies are damaged.  Try plugging a 110v device into a 220v outlet -- that's what you're doing when you know the mechanical act of plugging a device into an outlet but don't know the meaning of the marking that says "110v" and travel to Europe (forget the astral plane) and don't know they use 220v there.  Good luck with that hair dryer.  The converter of voltage is love, in your case, you are more complex than the hair dryer.  If you don't have it handy, don't bother plugging into that outlet.      

 

Damo Mitchel seems to be one of those folks who think you want to transform jing to shen.  Well, yes, if you want to expedite the ordinary process of jing squandering and dissipation.  The sublimation.  Going higher.  (Higher voltage is always good, right?..)  This can be successfully expedited by loveless sex, on any plane and by any method.  No problem.  But what's the purpose?  

[Apech]

Someone please explain to me what the purpose of "astral sex" with strangers might be?..  

 

I'm not questioning its impact, I'm questioning its motivation.  Sex can be one of three things energy-wise -- an exchange/modulation/refining, i.e. cultivation; a giving without such refining -- crude as-is offering of whatever the giver has to give; or a taking, with or without the donating party's consent, and usually without understanding, of the same as-is crude energy of the donor. 

 

Far as I know, a successful cultivational exchange (on any plane, not just astral) is something possible only between individuals who share more than the sexual interaction, its prerequisite is intimacy -- knowing yourself, caring for your partner.  In every other case, it's one-sided --  one takes, the other donates.  The energy may be exchanged on the level of shen, but the source tapped into is jing, and jing can only be replenished when sex is intimate, involving -- gasp -- love.  Jing can't be replenished bypassing the heart shen, it has no other way to go back, you have to actually go through the fire and place it under water (love under life), otherwise it can't go downward, only up, into dissipation and waste in whatever "higher realms" -- out and up and away from life.  

 

You are not dealing with mechanical forces when you're dealing with jing-qi-shen.  You are in the realm of meaningful transformations.  If the meaning is misunderstood, the energies are damaged.  Try plugging a 110v device into a 220v outlet -- that's what you're doing when you know the mechanical act of plugging a device into an outlet but don't know the meaning of the marking that says "110v" and travel to Europe (forget the astral plane) and don't know they use 220v there.  Good luck with that hair dryer.  The converter of voltage is love, in your case, you are more complex than the hair dryer.  If you don't have it handy, don't bother plugging into that outlet.      

 

Damo Mitchel seems to be one of those folks who think you want to transform jing to shen.  Well, yes, if you want to expedite the ordinary process of jing squandering and dissipation.  The sublimation.  Going higher.  (Higher voltage is always good, right?..)  This can be successfully expedited by loveless sex, on any plane and by any method.  No problem.  But what's the purpose?  

 

 

I don't know the answer to your question having never done astral sex.  But just to point out this has nothing to do with Damo Mitchell who does not mention this idea - it was added by me because of the recent sexcapades thread.  It may well be that Damo would agree with you.  I've just noticed that for some reason Dawei's quote of my OP misses out a vital line making this distinction.

 

The wider question is of course no matter what any individual may think of it - is it any of our business? and should it be moderated? and even more - how could you possibly moderate it successfully?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Apech

[Taomeow]

Well, not many can moderate the astral plane.  The chat room is another matter.

 

About that, I have no opinion.  I don't do chat rooms.  

[ralis]

I don't know the answer to your question having never done astral sex.  But just to point out this has nothing to do with Damo Mitchell who does not mention this idea - it was added by me because of the recent sexcapades thread.  It may well be that Damo would agree with you.

 

The wider question is of course no matter what any individual may think of it - is it any of our business? and should it be moderated? and even more - how could you possibly moderate it successfully?

 

As the old adage goes, "curiosity killed the cat" and most are naive as to the effects of such an exchange. Given that this problem has entered the public venue here, I think it is prudent to educate others as to the ramifications of. Although, some will venture into unknown territory without an inkling of knowledge.

[Apech]

As the old adage goes, "curiosity killed the cat" and most are naive as to the effects of such an exchange. Given that this problem has entered the public venue here, I think it is prudent to educate others as to the ramifications of. Although, some will venture into unknown territory without an inkling of knowledge.

 

 

What do you see those ramifications as being?

[Miffymog]

I'm kind of with Ralis here - for me, it's worth bringing to peoples attention that this kind of energy exchange can go on here. It's not always easy to work out why you feel as you do. Knowing that this interaction can easily happen on these kind of forums might help someone.

[ralis]

What do you see those ramifications as being?

 

I am not privy to what has been happening in the chat room at this time. However, I refer back to my recent post of possible problems. Although, Taomeow was much more precise in stating potential problems.

[liminal_luke]

Someone please explain to me what the purpose of "astral sex" with strangers might be?..  

 

 

  

People have astral sex with strangers for the same reason that they have physical sex with strangers, for the same reason that they might gamble or eat chocolate chip cookies or buy too many shoes: because sometimes, when life has really knocked you around, fragmentation feels safer than integration.

Edited September 9, 2016 by liminal_luke

[ralis]

I just went back and read TI's OP on this and will read a little further. I have the impression that someone in the chat room is teaching yab/yum tantra? That can be tricky stuff if one has no clue except a New Age naive mentality. All manner of emotion, character armoring, suppressed sexuality, can appear and cause myriad problems both psychological and physical.

[Apech]

People have astral sex with strangers for the same reason that they have physical sex with strangers, for the same reason that they might gamble or eat chocolate chip cookies or buy too many shoes: because sometimes, when life has really knocked you around, fragmentation feels safer than integration.

 

 

Just a thought.  Are two people separated by physical space necessarily 'strangers'.  If they are willing, consenting beings who share feelings and 'intimacy' albeit not physically - does this exclude love?  If they choose to do this - is it a problem to the rest of us?  Is DBs a place where we impose our sexual ethics on others?  Or is it more about personal freedom of expression?

[Jeff]

I just went back and read TI's OP on this and will read a little further. I have the impression that someone in the chat room is teaching yab/yum tantra? That can be tricky stuff if one has no clue except a New Age naive mentality. All manner of emotion, character armoring, suppressed sexuality, can appear and cause myriad problems both psychological and physical.

 

 

I don't think TI has ever been in chat with any of the past activities.  I was actively involved in stuff a while back and there was not any yab/yum tantra stuff done in the old days. 

 

With the recent complaints that led to the no "astral sex" rule, I talked to some of the parties involved (not personally there at the time), and they stated that they felt the sexual energy directed at them from some of the chat members. But, it did not seem to be from any actual practice that anyone was doing with the group. Seemed to be more a "radiating" issue then direct activity.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Jeff

[ralis]

Just a thought.  Are two people separated by physical space necessarily 'strangers'.  If they are willing, consenting beings who share feelings and 'intimacy' albeit not physically - does this exclude love?  If they choose to do this - is it a problem to the rest of us?  Is DBs a place where we impose our sexual ethics on others?  Or is it more about personal freedom of expression?

 

What if one is damaged in some way? I know it can and will happen.

[ralis]

I don't think TI has been in chat with any of the past activities.  I was actively involved in stuff a while back and there was not any yab/yum tantra stuff done in the old days. 

 

With the recent complaints that led to the no "astral sex" rule, I talked to some of the parties involved (not personally there at the time), and they stated that they felt the sexual energy directed at them from some of the chat members. But, it did not seem to be from any actual practice that anyone was doing with the group. Seemed to be more a "radiating" issue then direct activity.

 

This post appears to have started this discussion.

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/41707-chat-room-sexcapades/#entry702903

 

 

It has occurred to me that some members on this site think that using sex energy will enhance their practice. They lead chats in the chat room asking the participant to visualize a "consort" and then imagine that you are having sex with the "consort".