Energy transmission and sharing - a debate

[Apech]

I don't think TI has ever been in chat with any of the past activities.  I was actively involved in stuff a while back and there was not any yab/yum tantra stuff done in the old days. 

 

With the recent complaints that led to the no "astral sex" rule, I talked to some of the parties involved (not personally there at the time), and they stated that they felt the sexual energy directed at them from some of the chat members. But, it did not seem to be from any actual practice that anyone was doing with the group. Seemed to be more a "radiating" issue then direct activity.

 

I was told of the details of the 'allegation' and it was incorrect in every detail.  What the person thought was going on - was not - as I was supposed to be one of the people involved I can say this with 100% certainty.  This highlights the whole problem of moderating subjective assessments.

 

If by 'radiation' issue you mean the natural energy that we as beings emit - then that is exactly what you will encounter on here as we are all cultivators (by and large).  If it upsets you then leave the site - I really think it is that simple.  IF on the other hand it was due to deliberately directed energy then the responsibility is different.

[ralis]

  IF on the other hand it was due to deliberately directed energy then the responsibility is different.

 

Absolutely.

[Apech]

What if one is damaged in some way? I know it can and will happen.

 

Sure.  Life has its dangers.

[Jeff]

I was told of the details of the 'allegation' and it was incorrect in every detail.  What the person thought was going on - was not - as I was supposed to be one of the people involved I can say this with 100% certainty.  This highlights the whole problem of moderating subjective assessments.

 

If by 'radiation' issue you mean the natural energy that we as beings emit - then that is exactly what you will encounter on here as we are all cultivators (by and large).  If it upsets you then leave the site - I really think it is that simple.  IF on the other hand it was due to deliberately directed energy then the responsibility is different.

 

It all gets worse and more confusing when those who have no direct first hand knowledge start gossiping about it. Adding to the "incorrectness in every detail".

 

But, I think your point of "deliberately directed" is also challenging. People may subconscious radiate very negative energy forms.  Just do it as part of their nature. In many ways that can be far worse, that they cannot control themselves.  Like a kid having a temper tantrum.

 

Also, what about rather than an "immortal" just showing up in the chatroom, someone with a "negative entity" attached shows up and starts spreading negative energy... Then what do you do? Do you stop it if you can, or allow the being to attack others... 

[ralis]

Sure.  Life has its dangers.

 

I am not in favor of coddling everyone here and I certainly don't want to be anyone's parent, but if some are willing to be open minded and pay attention to persons with experience in these matters, perhaps that is worthwhile.

 

The bottom line for me is one of understanding that the 'life force', Ein Sof, or whatever name one denotes, is not to be trifled with. That is to say, play safe or become a crispy critter. I know since I have been there and am lucky to be alive and am able talk about it.

[liminal_luke]

Just a thought.  Are two people separated by physical space necessarily 'strangers'.  If they are willing, consenting beings who share feelings and 'intimacy' albeit not physically - does this exclude love?  If they choose to do this - is it a problem to the rest of us?  Is DBs a place where we impose our sexual ethics on others?  Or is it more about personal freedom of expression?

 

Good points, Apech.

 

I offered what I did out of personal experience (ahum), but realize full well that it´s a big world out there and there´s more to sex and sexual energy than I know.

 

As far as the policy here at Daobums goes, I stand by my original post -- if there´s informed consent between two consenting adults and the exchange doesn´t interfere with the quiet enjoyment of other Bums, I think it should be allowed.

 

Everybody knows that it´s prudent to wear a seat belt while riding in a moving vehicle.  In Oregon, where I used to live, you could be fined for not wearing one.  Here in Mexico, where I live now, you can ride dangerously if you like.  I like Mexico better.

Edited September 9, 2016 by liminal_luke

[ralis]

It all gets worse and more confusing when those who have no direct first hand knowledge start gossiping about it. Adding to the "incorrectness in every detail".

 

But, I think your point of "deliberately directed" is also challenging. People may subconscious radiate very negative energy forms.  Just do it as part of their nature. In many ways that can be far worse, that they cannot control themselves.  Like a kid having a temper tantrum.

 

Also, what about rather than an "immortal" just showing up in the chatroom, someone with a "negative entity" attached shows up and starts spreading negative energy... Then what do you do? Do you stop it if you can, or allow the being to attack others... 

 

Negative entities will show up regardless of the situation given that such are drawn to suffering, pain, trauma and so forth. I feel negativity up around Abiquiu New Mexico when I drive though that town. The Los Hermanos Penitente's have made certain of that. TDB is a small speck in this realm and is no exception.

[dawei]

I was told of the details of the 'allegation' and it was incorrect in every detail.  What the person thought was going on - was not - as I was supposed to be one of the people involved I can say this with 100% certainty.  This highlights the whole problem of moderating subjective assessments.

 

I think unless you talk to the very source of the complainers, then likely you don't have all the details but another's filtered view.    I think you're referring to single event on a single day.  The issue was a matter of 1-2 weeks in chat.   I think this highlights a problem in not knowing an entire story.    So my recent decision wasn't based on a single event.    I think we're well aware of another who state their dreams were affected by energy...  So this is not much different really as this was happening.

 

It seems to me that if two people go into chat and direct the energy only at each other... there is ultimately a concern [put forth by several] whether there is energy spillage to those who do not want to participate or don't know that energy exchange is going on.  

 

That's why general chat is not to have energy exchange for now.

 

If that energy is sexual energy, directed at each other, and others are saying they are feeling it and it is affecting their dreams, then I think it is time to at least stop that till it is understood better.   

[dawei]

As far as the policy here at Daobums goes, I stand by my original post -- if there´s informed consent between two consenting adults and the exchange doesn´t interfere with the quiet enjoyment of other Bums, I think it should be allowed.

 

Fair enough, so a few questions on that:

1. Should that be allowed in main chat?  If no, specifically why?    And thus, likely you mean in private chat.

2. So change it from sexual energy to any form of energy... same question, in main chat?  If no, specifically why?

3. Do you see energy spillage as a potential issue?   If in private, can there be spillage?

[Jeff]

Good points, Apech.

 

I offered what I did out of personal experience (ahum), but realize full well that it´s a big world out there and there´s more to sex and sexual energy than I know.

 

As far as the policy here at Daobums goes, I stand by my original post -- if there´s informed consent between two consenting adults and the exchange doesn´t interfere with the quiet enjoyment of other Bums, I think it should be allowed.

 

Everybody knows that it´s prudent to wear a seat belt while riding in a moving vehicle.  In Oregon, where I used to live, you could be fined for not wearing one.  Here in Mexico, where I live now, you can ride dangerously if you like.  I like Mexico better.

 

 

I would completely agree with the above post.  But, I think the issue is a little more complicated for many.

 

In my own case, some members have expressed concern about me even being in the chatroom. Even though I don't visit or share presence with people without specific permission, a few feel that it is not safe for the "newbies". Kind of like a fear of spontaneous kundalini activation from hanging to close.

 

While I personally don't consider those concerns valid, I do notice a lot of the above described subconscious energy flows of other people.  As an example, i can feel Apech radiating stuff in the chatroom. While he may not be doing it on purpose, some other member could easily come into chat and feel it if they were sensitive enough.

 

So the problem becomes that both parties can be correct from there own perspective... Apech says he was not doing anything and the other party feels like he is being blasted by him...

[ralis]

I think unless you talk to the very source of the complainers, then likely you don't have all the details but another's filtered view.    I think you're referring to single event on a single day.  The issue was a matter of 1-2 weeks in chat.   I think this highlights a problem in not knowing an entire story.    So my recent decision wasn't based on a single event.    I think we're well aware of another who state their dreams were affected by energy...  So this is not much different really as this was happening.

 

It seems to me that if two people go into chat and direct the energy only at each other... there is ultimately a concern [put forth by several] whether there is energy spillage to those who do not want to participate or don't know that energy exchange is going on.  

 

That's why general chat is not to have energy exchange for now.

 

If that energy is sexual energy, directed at each other, and others are saying they are feeling it and it is affecting their dreams, then I think it is time to at least stop that till it is understood better.   

 

I doubt most are even able to understand even in small ways. So called energy can be extremely complex and ranging to chaotic/disorganized. E.g. I mentioned in a post a few minutes ago regarding the Penitente's not far from me here in New Mexico. Their live crucifixion rituals around Easter time which have been conducted since at least the late 1800's or longer have a negative effect both locally and a distance. I have felt that quite strongly and so it doesn't surprise me that persons on this forum are sensitive to what is happening in the chat room. Non local and no separation.

 

Photo of a live crucifixion in the late 1800's which to this day produce negativity.

 

 

[dawei]

So the problem becomes that both parties can be correct from there own perspective... Apech says he was not doing anything and the other party feels like he is being blasted by him...

 

So this at least gets it away from the directional and intentional... and simply relates that there can be even subconscious 'transmission' going on and sensed by others.

 

On one hand, maybe we should say, "if you don't like the energy in the chatroom, then leave"...  but of the person who gives off that energy is in the chatroom every day for hours on end... that that does not feel "chat friendly".

 

And a reason I'm willing to explore multiple chatrooms or 'group area' stuff which might minimize the use of chat exposure of energy.

[ralis]

What about a Faraday Cage to block unwanted energies. I am being facetious but there are other possibilities.

 

[dawei]

I don't want to give the impression that the current decisions are set in stone.  I'm happy to loosen some issues but it does have to make sense from several angles (I first wrote angels  )   I appreciate the thread and comments. 

[Shad282]

What about a Faraday Cage to block unwanted energies. I am being facetious but there are other possibilities.

 

 

why people are so obsessed with energy and protection and the "dangers". if you allow everything to be as is, nothing can actually affect you. Just a different realm with the same lesson, no need to panic

Edited September 9, 2016 by Shad282

[Apech]

I would completely agree with the above post.  But, I think the issue is a little more complicated for many.

 

In my own case, some members have expressed concern about me even being in the chatroom. Even though I don't visit or share presence with people without specific permission, a few feel that it is not safe for the "newbies". Kind of like a fear of spontaneous kundalini activation from hanging to close.

 

While I personally don't consider those concerns valid, I do notice a lot of the above described subconscious energy flows of other people.  As an example, i can feel Apech radiating stuff in the chatroom. While he may not be doing it on purpose, some other member could easily come into chat and feel it if they were sensitive enough.

 

So the problem becomes that both parties can be correct from there own perspective... Apech says he was not doing anything and the other party feels like he is being blasted by him...

 

 

I can't help my own awesomeness

[ralis]

why people are so obsessed with energy and protection and the "dangers". if you allow everything to be as is, nothing can actually affect you. Just a different realm with the same lesson, no need to panic

I don't agree, for the reasons many have stated here and my own experience.

[liminal_luke]

I can't help my own awesomeness

 

And why would you want to?  I personally love hanging out with awesomely powerful people and am glad to share this forum with you, with Jeff, and with all the others dynamic characters onboard.  You know what they say: if you can´t stand the heat, get out of the nuclear reactor.

 

We can´t legislate vibration.  At least not the unintentional kind.  The Daobums ought to be a place that rolls out the welcome mat for all that want to discuss what´s discussed here, be they immortal or satanically possessed.  It´s all good until somebody calls someone else an asshole and then the mods can come in and do their thing.

 

Unintentional transmission must be allowed no matter how noxious or heavenly the source.  Things only get tricky, in my view, when we´re taking about intentional transmission.  In that case the transmitter has a responsibility to inform the transmittee of potential risks and benefits and to put up safegaurds to protect innocent bystanders.  If the transmitter lacks the skills to do so, they shouldn´t be transmitting.  

Edited September 9, 2016 by liminal_luke

[dwai]

Whi

 

So this at least gets it away from the directional and intentional... and simply relates that there can be even subconscious 'transmission' going on and sensed by others.

 

On one hand, maybe we should say, "if you don't like the energy in the chatroom, then leave"...  but of the person who gives off that energy is in the chatroom every day for hours on end... that that does not feel "chat friendly".

 

And a reason I'm willing to explore multiple chatrooms or 'group area' stuff which might minimize the use of chat exposure of energy.

While I don't personally chat, in another lifetime, on another board I used to frequent (Nagual.com), there used to be a provision to do 1x1 or group chats (been close to 2 decades now so my memory is hazy)...or what is some other board. In any case, it might not be such a bad idea where people can create group chats and members can drop off the chat activities as they please.

[Apech]

I don't know if I can sum up the conversation so far but I am getting towards:

 

1 ) astral sex between consenting adults - is their own business.

 

2 ) natural 'radiation' - is natural and to be expected in this place of awesome people.

 

So that leaves intentional transmission and group work.  Are they ok - in what circumstances and when and how?  Although we haven't really agreed on different types of transmission and the use of 'tantric' sexual imagination.

 

feel free to disagree with my summation by the way

Edited September 9, 2016 by Apech

[dawei]

I don't know if I can sum up the conversation so far but I am getting towards:

 

1 ) astral sex between consenting adults - is their own business.

 

2 ) natural 'radiation' - is natural and to be expected in this place of awesome people.

 

So that leaves intentional transmission and group work.  Are they ok - in what circumstances and when and how?  Although we haven't really agreed on different types of transmission and the use of 'tantric' sexual imagination.

 

feel free to disagree with my summation by the way

 

if we defined a 'group' as two or more engaged in the same or similar transmission... and if intention includes that your directing your energy to another.. than astral sex meets both of the items you're arguing against. 

 

I personally think it is a simple top level:

1. Intentional

2. non-intentional

 

Within each would be single vs group...  as well as whether it has been informed and accepted... but in either of those cases, to me astral sex goes into Intentional right at the start.

 

 

 

And why would you want to?  I personally love hanging out with awesomely powerful people and am glad to share this forum with you, with Jeff, and with all the others dynamic characters onboard.  You know what they say: if you can´t stand the heat, get out of the nuclear reactor.

 

We can´t legislate vibration.  At least not the unintentional kind.  The Daobums ought to be a place that rolls out the welcome mat for all that want to discuss what´s discussed here, be they immortal or satanically possessed.  It´s all good until somebody calls someone else an asshole and then the mods can come in and do their thing.

 

Unintentional transmission must be allowed no matter how noxious or heavenly the source.  Things only get tricky, in my view, when we´re taking about intentional transmission.  In that case the transmitter has a responsibility to inform the transmittee of potential risks and benefits and to put up safegaurds to protect innocent bystanders.  If the transmitter lacks the skills to do so, they shouldn´t be transmitting.  

 

I tend to agree with all of this and it is nothing more than I would think Sean original envisioned and thus, there should just be no rules against anyone doing energy work as long as there is informed consent.

 

Which would mean we just go back to the way it has been done since the beginning...  

 

So where is the 'problem statement'?    (really rhetorical)

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

my 2c:

There is nothing wrong with energy transmission teaching, but it needs to be done with a sense of moral responsibility.

I want to illustrate this with a few personal experiences plus the experience of a friend:

 

1: Qi level:  I've had this done to me by a number of people and on different levels.  Firstly, the Qi level of energy transmission goes from very simple to very complex, so it isn't that it is one type of event manifestation, but rather different levels and types.

The simplest type that I have encountered is hands on, which is similar to what reiki people do, but in the context of a qi gong teacher helping manifest Qi by guiding his hands over my head during practice.  Another type of experience of this type that I've had is when practicing Qi gong with teacher and classmates, I felt an overwhelming sense of energy and had to sit down afterward.  My teacher asked me if I liked the practice and I said what had happened, he laughed and said "I'm glad you noticed, my teacher Mr.Peng taught me how to do that, to send Qi to the room."  I also had this experience while reading Dao Zang on a train in Shandong.  An old chap who was sitting next to me started directing Qi in a very condensed way deeply into my body.   He didn't say anything, but there was no other way that could have happened at that time.

 

I view all of these practices as "ethical," in that the people doing it didn't try to get anything as a result, but on the other hand,

I had a chap in Taizhong send what felt like a hot burning piece of coal into my stomach and du meridian one day and then immediately afterward went on a cosmic rant about how he was taught by the god of the Northern star and that all of his dao fa was taught to him from the spirit realm.  He was also making fun of several of his students in the room and being quite dismissive of their questions.  I view this type of practice as unethical because he was clearly using it to control people.

 

on a more spiritual level, I had an experience with a Tibetan Lama where he caused me to have a waking dream with a spiritual message through chanting.    It was an extremely life affirming and positive experience which also helped me to make some important decisions.

On the other hand, a friend of mine during induction into a pseudo-daoist cult was directly given spiritual gifts via third eye communication and then signed into their book of the saved.   They go around telling people that they have been looking for them for hundreds of years to train them to be Boddhisatvas.  this kind of stuff I'm not too keen on because it is obviously cult like behaviour and preys on mentally weak people.

 

So energy transmission or not really isn't the issue for me, it is more of an issue of intention.

When people practice in a pure way, it can do beautiful things for others, but when they practice evil graft in order to control students, it is a bad thing. I notice that the graft method is an epidemic among Taiwanese schools especially.  Take it for what it is worth.

[ralis]

my 2c:

There is nothing wrong with energy transmission teaching, but it needs to be done with a sense of moral responsibility.

I want to illustrate this with a few personal experiences plus the experience of a friend:

 

1: Qi level:  I've had this done to me by a number of people and on different levels.  Firstly, the Qi level of energy transmission goes from very simple to very complex, so it isn't that it is one type of event manifestation, but rather different levels and types.

The simplest type that I have encountered is hands on, which is similar to what reiki people do, but in the context of a qi gong teacher helping manifest Qi by guiding his hands over my head during practice.  Another type of experience of this type that I've had is when practicing Qi gong with teacher and classmates, I felt an overwhelming sense of energy and had to sit down afterward.  My teacher asked me if I liked the practice and I said what had happened, he laughed and said "I'm glad you noticed, my teacher Mr.Peng taught me how to do that, to send Qi to the room."  I also had this experience while reading Dao Zang on a train in Shandong.  An old chap who was sitting next to me started directing Qi in a very condensed way deeply into my body.   He didn't say anything, but there was no other way that could have happened at that time.

 

I view all of these practices as "ethical," in that the people doing it didn't try to get anything as a result, but on the other hand,

I had a chap in Taizhong send what felt like a hot burning piece of coal into my stomach and du meridian one day and then immediately afterward went on a cosmic rant about how he was taught by the god of the Northern star and that all of his dao fa was taught to him from the spirit realm.  He was also making fun of several of his students in the room and being quite dismissive of their questions.  I view this type of practice as unethical because he was clearly using it to control people.

 

on a more spiritual level, I had an experience with a Tibetan Lama where he caused me to have a waking dream with a spiritual message through chanting.    It was an extremely life affirming and positive experience which also helped me to make some important decisions.

On the other hand, a friend of mine during induction into a pseudo-daoist cult was directly given spiritual gifts via third eye communication and then signed into their book of the saved.   They go around telling people that they have been looking for them for hundreds of years to train them to be Boddhisatvas.  this kind of stuff I'm not too keen on because it is obviously cult like behaviour and preys on mentally weak people.

 

So energy transmission or not really isn't the issue for me, it is more of an issue of intention.

When people practice in a pure way, it can do beautiful things for others, but when they practice evil graft in order to control students, it is a bad thing. I notice that the graft method is an epidemic among Taiwanese schools especially.  Take it for what it is worth.

 

Absolutely. Being upfront and responsible while having clear intention is a win win scenario as opposed to the zero sum game that some play with energy.

[Taomeow]

Perhaps we can create a thread in which people who know good methods of "energetic' protection could share them.  (Ralis's suggestion of a Faraday cage might go there.  I'm not familiar with this method, but I have my own, as I'm sure many other cultivators do.)

 

So instead of exposing oneself to dangers of unruly and possibly unfriendly forces and entities, people would try to get a bit of an education first as to how to shield themselves from such energies.  Of course there's stuff so powerful that a lay practitioner and even a seasoned sorceress can't do much to deflect it (or can but won't, for reasons not of this world thread), but I haven't noticed many of these here at TTB so far -- in fact hardly any, with only three exceptions, some years apart, and even those were possible to dissipate, just not right away. 

 

Should one of those too-strong-to-shield-against thingies show up again, I'll warn a few friends and let everyone else live out their own destiny.  Barring such nasty extremes, however, the regular spiritual protection methods can be learned and used by anyone who feels insecure about picking up something they didn't bargain for.  In fact, for everyone who wants to engage in chat would be my suggestion, just to be on the safe side.  

 

How's that for a plan?  Energy work in chat rooms for those who show proficiency in self-protection.  Safe astral sex 101.  Safe deals with the devil...  well, no, but let's hope the devil has other things to do besides TDB chats.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Taomeow

[Apech]

Perhaps we can create a thread in which people who know good methods of "energetic' protection could share them.  (Ralis's suggestion of a Faraday cage might go there.  I'm not familiar with this method, but I have my own, as I'm sure many other cultivators do.)

 

So instead of exposing oneself to dangers of unruly and possibly unfriendly forces and entities, people would try to get a bit of an education first as to how to shield themselves from such energies.  Of course there's stuff so powerful that a lay practitioner and even a seasoned sorceress can't do much to deflect it (or can but won't, for reasons not of this world thread), but I haven't noticed many of these here at TTB so far -- in fact hardly any, with only three exceptions, some years apart, and even those were possible to dissipate, just not right away. 

 

Should one of those too-strong-to-shield-against thingies show up again, I'll warn a few friends and let everyone else live out their own destiny.  Barring such nasty extremes, however, the regular spiritual protection methods can be learned and used by anyone who feels insecure about picking up something they didn't bargain for.  In fact, for everyone who wants to engage in chat would be my suggestion, just to be on the safe side.  

 

How's that for a plan?  Energy work in chat rooms for those who show proficiency in self-protection.  Safe astral sex 101.  Safe deals with the devil...  well, no, but let's hope the devil has other things to do besides TDB chats.

 

Good idea but Jeff does not believe in protection or shielding etc.