Energy transmission and sharing - a debate

[Jeff]

Just found our email exchange which was quite lengthy. You sent me a PM which started the conversation etc.

Ok, cool. Could you resend me in a pm whatever you think is relevant? I tend to clear old pm messages that have been quiet for six months or more. Much often changes for everyone over time.

[liminal_luke]

Sometimes it´s not easy to say whether an energy is helpful or not.  Take the case of Kunlun.  People have all sorts of different experiences depending perhaps on how they practice and who they were before they started.  

 

(1) Some say there´s no snake energy and it´s great.

 

(2) Some say that yes there´s snake energy but that´s a good thing.

 

(3) Some say there´s snake energy and it´s crazy scary bad.

 

Spiritual practice often pushes up against our blocks, against our shadow.  And then there´s the issue of trauma brought up by BES.  People can reexperience their traumas.  Whether or not this is ultimately a good thing is very individual.  

 

I don´t know anything about the Light Group but perhaps some issues are similar.  Sometimes a good transmission doesn´t necessarily feel good all along the way:  Growing pains happen.  Then again, not everybody wants to go the healing crisis route.  Some aren´t ready for that.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I'd still like to discuss a little the role of protection and shielding on here as relevant to transmission activities.  I don't think anyone is of the opinion that these things always work and are 100% effective in all circumstances.  But its a useful point to say if you encounter something you don't like there is something you can do to protect yourself from it.

 

What this boils down to for me is that we each have to take responsibility for ourselves.  There is no teacher pupil relationship within DBs.

 

I agree with this which is why I objected to splitting out the aspects dealing with shielding in this thread, and shielding should be a part of this thread, especially in the case of energies that just won't take no for an answer, but also having to search through a thread like this just to get information about shielding, would be time consuming, thus my offer of a thread on it, though I can't turn it into a course in psychic protection, only a discussion of some techniques and I especially liked the idea of explaining the Faraday cage and how ideas like it have been used in Daoism.

[Jeff]

Sometimes it´s not easy to say whether an energy is helpful or not.  Take the case of Kunlun.  People have all sorts of different experiences depending perhaps on how they practice and who they were before they started.  

 

(1) Some say there´s no snake energy and it´s great.

 

(2) Some say that yes there´s snake energy but that´s a good thing.

 

(3) Some say there´s snake energy and it´s crazy scary bad.

 

Spiritual practice often pushes up against our blocks, against our shadow.  And then there´s the issue of trauma brought up by BES.  People can reexperience their traumas.  Whether or not this is ultimately a good thing is very individual.  

 

I don´t know anything about the Light Group but perhaps some issues are similar.  Sometimes a good transmission doesn´t necessarily feel good all along the way:  Growing pains happen.  Then again, not everybody wants to go the healing crisis route.  Some aren´t ready for that.

You raise some good points here, but it seems that this thread is increasingly being steered specifically towards the "light group", rather than general energy issues. Additionally, I would like to remind everyone that the recent perception of "sexual stuff" in chat had nothing to do with any of the members that are supposedly in the light group.

[ralis]

I agree with this which is why I objected to splitting out the aspects dealing with shielding in this thread, and shielding should be a part of this thread, especially in the case of energies that just won't take no for an answer, but also having to search through a thread like this just to get information about shielding, would be time consuming, thus my offer of a thread on it, though I can't turn it into a course in psychic protection, only a discussion of some techniques and I especially liked the idea of explaining the Faraday cage and how ideas like it have been used in Daoism.

 

I would appreciate further elaboration.

[ralis]

Sometimes it´s not easy to say whether an energy is helpful or not.  Take the case of Kunlun.  People have all sorts of different experiences depending perhaps on how they practice and who they were before they started.  

 

(1) Some say there´s no snake energy and it´s great.

 

(2) Some say that yes there´s snake energy but that´s a good thing.

 

(3) Some say there´s snake energy and it´s crazy scary bad.

 

Spiritual practice often pushes up against our blocks, against our shadow.  And then there´s the issue of trauma brought up by BES.  People can reexperience their traumas.  Whether or not this is ultimately a good thing is very individual.  

 

I don´t know anything about the Light Group but perhaps some issues are similar.  Sometimes a good transmission doesn´t necessarily feel good all along the way:  Growing pains happen.  Then again, not everybody wants to go the healing crisis route.  Some aren´t ready for that.

 

If I remember correctly, Namkhai Norbu stated in the beginning of his early Yantra Yoga book that pranic energy is dicey and must be carefully cultivated. He seemed to imply it is more potent than Kundalini.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I agree with this which is why I objected to splitting out the aspects dealing with shielding in this thread, and shielding should be a part of this thread, especially in the case of energies that just won't take no for an answer, but also having to search through a thread like this just to get information about shielding, would be time consuming, thus my offer of a thread on it, though I can't turn it into a course in psychic protection, only a discussion of some techniques and I especially liked the idea of explaining the Faraday cage and how ideas like it have been used in Daoism.

I would appreciate further elaboration.

Well, the short answer is electrical grounding. More than likely the Faraday cage is grounded, meaning it is connected to a circuit that guides it into the earth itself, and is acting like a lightning rod, which would do under the circumstances, because the real purpose of the Faraday cage is to block electromagnetic radiation in the "radio" frequencies, but a lightning rod wouldn't seem quite as dramatic would it?  If the young woman were grounded and the cage not grounded, the electrical discharge would go to her.

 

Now martial artists may already be thinking about grounding and rooting, and the Daoist use in psychic shielding is an extension of these ideas, but I  can't take the time right now to say more about this and if I do decide to start a thread, I will need to think about whether to bring in some illustrations and other things like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Changed spacing of lines in quote, cut out unneeded lines.

[liminal_luke]

Jeff,

 

I´m not certain as we haven´t talked about it specifically, but I gather from the conversation that you are someone who does energy work/ transmissions with people.  Is that true?  If so, I wonder if you´d be willing to share your opinion here?  (I get that you´d like to keep the conversation broad and not focused specifically on your group.)

 

Do you think energy work between members should be allowed in Daobums.  If so, where?  General chat?  Private chat?

 

What safegaurds should be put in place to make such work safe for all involved? 

[link]

In regards to "shielding"... Some friends and I have explored it and we seem to be in agreement that the idea of shielding is not very accurate or useful.

 

What has been effective is stop interacting and giving it attention. The energy interactions (or incursions if perceived that way- hence the shield seeking) grow stronger with attention, so the basic method is to bring attention away from it.

 

Persistent attachments often require persistent abstinence.

[Albion]

I'm happy that these undercurrents now become visible and talked about. it one of the things that attracted me to the forums, the pit, where the highlights of old shit can be found. So I'm happy that a ( somewhat cleaned up version) of the sexcapades thread is back there.

 

I've been aware of the fact that energy ' play' was going on in the chatroom and that was and is a reason for me not to go there, but I do not miss it really. I'm not much of a chatter, even though sometimes i would like to chat about mundane things, like growing gardens etc.

 

so not personally involved here

 

Somewhere i read that people who 'received' this energy felt hurt/damaged/ whatever and have been given help by other members of the forum. Thanks for those helpful people but the one doing the intentional ' sending of energy' ought too be capable of doing that, it's his/her responsibility.

 

Even though I'm much a beginner, I do have some experience with energy being ' transmitted'. I do not have fancy words for it but'll try to speak my mind

 

1) transmission of this kind can sort of open up the energetic system, thereby making people vulnerable for intrusion. I think, not even specifically only from the transmitter, but also others. These encounters can have a highly sexual feeling and thereby become something the receiver can become attached to, thereby prolonging these strange ' encounters' and depleting the person of his energy/vitality. This has happened to me, years ago, when i was not even a beginner...I told the guy who messed with my energy-system and he was shocked, he did not mean to do that. I told him that it was time to go back to his teacher, his energetic powers were exceeding his wisdom.

looking back it seems to me that this has attributed to my state of chronic fatigue.

 

mind you, this guy meant well and clearly acted from the heart....took my advice to heart too, it was like " aw, shit, did not have the slightest that those kind of things would happen to you. so he has started to grow further, that's good.

 

Now, i think this is a sort of phase cultivators ( can, maybe have to) go through

 

 

2) the other thing that can ( and will) happen is that old trauma's open up. Some people harbour deep trauma's, when you've reached a certain point in cultivation you're able to ' unblock' those emotions. But the receiver then has to deal with it.  For un-traumatized people this can be..hard to understand I think. But take my word, there are many of them, everywhere and on this board. And there not all young ( or newbies). IMHO, these people can be exceptionally vulnerable, because many of them seek the way of energy, and energetic healing, as the answer for there problems. I empathize with them for I was one of them.

When an old trauma opens up you get confronted with all the pain/fear/anger etc that is locked up in you. That's a very hard road and you've to be ready for that and in the period that this is happening you need help to keep you from, for instance, becoming psychotic, or in other ways becoming totally unhinged.

 

even though I do not much like to share this, I will still do it, it might be helpful for some who are reading this.

 

Some years after my previous mentioned story I found my teacher, he taught me qigung and meditation and helped me clear blockages. And then i opened up the worst of them, I've been lying down shaking uncontrollably for hours, energy then began flowing thereby opening up even more. It was emotionally devastating, then totally unexpected kundalini reared its head thereby opening up even more.

For weeks on end I've been in the throes of severe kriya's, of becoming ' psychic' being aware of/ seeing ' things' I had not dreamed existed. I was hardly able to function, to take care of myself in the most basic sense.

 

through all those weeks my teacher was there for me, everytime I needed it he was there to energetically 'hold my hand/ hug me'. make me feel safe, to steer me on the right path, imnstruct me what to do with these energyflows that were too large for my body-mind to hold, to keep the fear at bay. And when he wasn't able to come he did send eh...lets call it assistants.... without him, I would not be sitting here, typing, I would have gone off to a realm of fear and sickness .

 

As it is I've gotten rid of PTSD, I'm eternally grateful, but he does not want to hear anything of that. " you did all the work yourself" yes I did, but without his help in the aftermath of loosening up, it would have led to ruin.

 

His powers are in accordance with his wisdom, he knew what he was doing and sustained me through it.

 

That is what i miss in the stories I read about this so called lightgroup, and that is bothering me.

 

Both for the people intentionally transmitting energy, as I feel that acting like a 'guru' or something, and afterwards not taking peoples pain and fears serious and/or not being able to help them with it. Is doing a disservice to humankind (to put it softly) and will have its very own karmic repercussions, I do not wish those on anybody.

When you're not aware of it, as the guy in my first example, it cannot be helped, but by now it must be clear that, at least for some people, something unhealthy seems to be going on here. I hereby ask you, not knowing who you are, to look at yourself, to look at your actions and take your own responsibility.

 

For the receivers of this energy, things just can go severely wrong, where there was no need for it. A slow route, and more experienced help can do so awfully much for people with severe blockages.

 

Informed consent is somesort of...eh, when you haven't burnt yourself it's so easy to think it all safe and nice. And i can readily imagine that the chat is a place where you can easily be seduced into things that you will regret afterwards.

 

I wish the staff luck with finding ways and I would be happy with a thread about ways to self-protect,

 

BES

 

 

Dear Blue Eyed Snake,

 

   I've got a pretty good case of PTSD.

 

If you know of *ANY* Qi-Gong methods, to help subdue this monster, I'd be very happy to about them! 

 

You could send me a PM, or if you feel comfortable, you could write about them out in the open here.

 

​That might be a bit too much, so You decide.

 

I've been seeing a therapist who specializes in PTSD twice a month, for about a year and a half, but it's *very slow going* so far.

 

If you feel comfortable, please write to me by either method suggested.

 

Thank you SOOOOO MUCHHHH!     Differently Abled Daoist

Edited September 10, 2016 by DifferentlyAbledDaoist

[mindtooloud]

Dear Blue Eyed Snake,

 

I've got a pretty good case of PTSD.

 

If you know of *ANY* Qi-Gong methods, to help subdue this monster, I'd be very happy to about them!

 

You could send me a PM, or if you feel comfortable, you could write about them out in the open here.

 

​That might be a bit too much, so You decide.

 

I've been seeing a therapist who specializes in PTSD twice a month, for about a year and a half, but it's *very slow going* so far.

 

If you feel comfortable, please write to me by either method suggested.

 

Thank you SOOOOO MUCHHHH! Differently Abled Daoist

youre voice chamges when you change font. Its interesting

[Jetsun]

You must have me mistaken with someone else. I have never offered any form of healing or healing sessions in chat. The only member that I can remember making an offer like that was Jetsun (I think - correct me Jetsun if wrong).

I have made that offer in the past, although I haven't used the chat room for that for a year or two so any energetic stuff isn't down to me. The last time I was there was when I received your "hugs"

 

Im guessing all these threads are essentially about the hugs as it was mentioned that astrally I was meant to be hugging a blonde woman, which could be imagined to be sexual; which is a little odd to me as I have never heard that your astral body is a different sex to you, in terms of my own experiences in conscious dreams etc so far as I know I remain male and don't turn into a woman.

 

But I think it would be a shame if energy sharing is completely banned from a site like this, in a private room it is impossible for energy to leek out, we are talking about digital space here not physical, the only way for anyone to pick up on anything would be to be consciously and intentionally tuning in to what was going on and even then the interchange wouldn't be directly at them.

 

So I expect there is a lot of imagination and projection going on if people think they are picking up of stuff from others in another room.

[Jeff]

Jeff,

 

I´m not certain as we haven´t talked about it specifically, but I gather from the conversation that you are someone who does energy work/ transmissions with people. Is that true? If so, I wonder if you´d be willing to share your opinion here? (I get that you´d like to keep the conversation broad and not focused specifically on your group.)

 

Do you think energy work between members should be allowed in Daobums. If so, where? General chat? Private chat?

 

What safegaurds should be put in place to make such work safe for all involved?

 

While I don't really do transmission, I do know what you mean and realize that what most people feel with me would be considered energy work/transmission by most. And yes, happy to share my opinion...

 

From an overall bums view, I would agree with many that we should leave it open as long is there is consent. Maybe just put a warning on the door, that people are radiant here and stuff can really happen, "be warned".

 

In my view, the problems don't really originate from conscious activities, but more the deeper subconscious stuff that some radiate without noticing it.

 

When the first round of no group energy work in chat came, I was told personally by the mods... I said "fine", no big deal, as I had only done it once in the last year at the specific request of some members. While, I did not personally agree with the concern, I could understand the point... Most people here are more just book readers, and stuff really does happen. Additionally, with all of the recent drama on this point, I even volunteered to personally ban myself from chat if it would help.

 

I think the decision is really more about what the focus of the taobums is and should be...? Is it about real practices and real energy work, or just a fun place to come and post & chat with your friends about politics and pizza?

Edited September 10, 2016 by Jeff

[Apech]

...

 

I think the decision is really more about what the focus of the taobums is and should be...? Is it about real practices and real energy work, or just a fun place to come and post & chat with your friends about politics and pizza?

 

It is fairly obviously about both those things - and given the strangeness and misunderstanding which seem to occur don't downplay the social side of this site.  I'm sure we will come to a point where there is room for both.

[liminal_luke]

While I don't really do transmission, I do know what you mean and realize that what most people feel with me would be considered energy work/transmission by most. And yes, happy to share my opinion...

 

From an overall bums view, I would agree with many that we should leave it open as long is there is consent. Maybe just put a warning on the door, that people are radiant here and stuff can really happen, "be warned".

 

In my view, the problems don't really originate from conscious activities, but more the deeper subconscious stuff that some radiate without noticing it.

 

When the first round of no group energy work in chat came, I was told personally by the mods... I said "fine", no big deal, as I had only done it once in the last year at the specific request of some members. While, I did not personally agree with the concern, I could understand the point... Most people here are more just book readers, and stuff really does happen. Additionally, with all of the recent drama on this point, I even volunteered to personally ban myself from chat if it would help.

 

I think the decision is really more about what the focus of the taobums is and should be...? Is it about real practices and real energy work, or just a fun place to come and chat with your friends about politics and pizza?

 

Honestly, this thread is one of the only meaty threads I seen at the bums in a long time...

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Thanks for sharing your point of view.  And I´m mostly agreed with you about leaving it open as long as there´s consent.  Perhaps limiting it to private chats or private group chats (does such a thing exist?) so that people that just want more mundane chatter can do so easily in general chat.

 

Of course, it´s possible for someone to give their consent and still end up getting hurt.  People do all kinds of harmful things to themselves with their own consent -- eat junk food, smoke crack, gamble away all their money -- but what can you do?  If we don´t have the freedom to hurt ourselves, we have no freedom at all.

 

What´s this about banning yourself from chat?  You´ll do as you see fit, of course, but I think that if you want to chat, you should chat.  I don´t care how powerful your energy is, the chat room ought to be open for all. Jesus Christ himself could come down from above, and if Marblehead determines he´s not a spammer and accepts his application, he ought to be able to chat about pizza and politics just the same as anybody else.  Why not?  If someone is bothered by the divine vibes, I figure that´s their problem.

 

I don´t think the Daobums is about any one thing.  We´re all different and this place means something different to each of us.  Some people love to debate politics in the Off Topic area and that´s about it.  Others might want to participate in energetic exchanges in the chat area.  As for myself, I find this website a great resource for finding out about potential practices.  Right now both my partner and I are working with a Zapchen practitioner through Skype.  I found out about the possibility of doing so through another Bum.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

LIminal

Edited September 10, 2016 by liminal_luke

[mindtooloud]

It is fairly obviously about both those things - and given the strangeness and misunderstanding which seem to occur don't downplay the social side of this site. I'm sure we will come to a point where there is room for both.

But what about our feelings until we get to that point of having rooms, must we suffer till then?

( )

Edited September 10, 2016 by mindtooloud

[Jetsun]

In terms of energy work the way I have been taught to work is that when working with someone you first gain their permission and then give them a warning of what can happen, so If I am working officially with a client in a proper session I send them a client agreement which they have to sign or agree to which is along the lines of:

 

"...it is to be expected that various situations can arise from receiving this healing. Certain problems, either physical or emotional, may be alleviated. Deep mystical experiences can occur, as well as life-change realizations. But sometimes, suppressed emotions or physical tensions may receive enough healing energy to be pushed to surface, so they can be released or resolved, and this process may create various emotional or physical symptoms. Deep healing is a process that is intended to create changes in one’s life, and those changes can manifest physically, emotionally and spiritually. It is all part of the healing process."

 

Then I will remain available by email to talk about any fallout or answer any questions that may arise after the healing. So in that sense if I was to be doing any group healing it wouldn't be wise to do it in a completely public open space as anyone may wander in and tune into the group field and then have experiences they weren't prepared for. Those experiences may be ultimately a good thing for them to face and it will always be some issue which already exists inside of them coming into conscious awareness, so it wont be created or given to them by someone else, but professionally and out of a sense of care it is better that people are more prepared for the experiences they get themselves into.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Jetsun

[Zhongyongdaoist]

But what about our feelings until we get to that point of having rooms, must we suffer till then?

 

I just posted in another thread on the chat room, this quotes the important aspects of it:

 

There was some public discussion about "groups", and extension to the site software, awhile back, it starts here:

 

As we look forward to the latest release we are also reviewing add-ins.

 

Is this close to what you were suggesting?

 

https://invisionpower.com/files/file/7264-group-collaboration-full/

in subsequent discussion the specific extension was criticized, but it may need further examination.

The link in the quote from dawei goes to the discussion of an extension to the site software that has been under consideration, and I believe other options are being explored also.  Making changes to the site software are not something to be undertaken lightly, because they can have unexpected consequences, but the possibility of expanding to multiple chat rooms or their equivalent is being looked into.

[mindtooloud]

I just posted in another thread on the chat room, this quotes the important aspects of it:

 

 

The link in the quote from dawei goes to the discussion of an extension to the site software that has been under consideration, and I believe other options are being explored also. Making changes to the site software are not something to be undertaken lightly, because they can have unexpected consequences, but the possibility of expanding to multiple chat rooms or their equivalent is being looked into.

Im aware its being looked into and i believe thats what will happen. Opening another chatroom seems like the most direct solution. I'm not supportive of the separation it will bring. I like the sense of unity that comes along with one chatroom, but since some people aren't happy to share the chatroom for other activities we have no choice but to separate in a sense.

 

Or maybe we could make an "energy room" so it wouldn't be considered two chat room. No chatting allowed in the energy room haha

[Apech]

But what about our feelings until we get to that point of having rooms, must we suffer till then?

( )

 

You have two other sites to use.

[mindtooloud]

You have two other sites to use.

I know of one. Whats the other one other than lu?

 

And yes you're right we can go there until this problem is fixed. But still, still.

[Jeff]

In terms of energy work the way I have been taught to work is that when working with someone you first gain their permission and then give them a warning of what can happen, so If I am working officially with a client in a proper session I send them a client agreement which they have to sign or agree to which is along the lines of:

 

"...it is to be expected that various situations can arise from receiving this healing. Certain problems, either physical or emotional, may be alleviated. Deep mystical experiences can occur, as well as life-change realizations. But sometimes, suppressed emotions or physical tensions may receive enough healing energy to be pushed to surface, so they can be released or resolved, and this process may create various emotional or physical symptoms. Deep healing is a process that is intended to create changes in one’s life, and those changes can manifest physically, emotionally and spiritually. It is all part of the healing process."

 

Then I will remain available by email to talk about any fallout or answer any questions that may arise after the healing. So in that sense if I was to be doing any group healing it wouldn't be wise to do it in a completely public open space as anyone may wander in and tune into the group field and then have experiences they weren't prepared for. Those experiences may be ultimately a good thing for them to face and it will always be some issue which already exists inside of them coming into conscious awareness, so it wont be created or given to them by someone else, but professionally and out of a sense of care it is better that people are more prepared for the experiences they get themselves into.

Great disclosure statement. Good stuff.

[Bindi]

There seems to be an underlying message contantly being reaffirmed by energy workers that all energy work is good but that some people are just unable to deal with the consequences of it, and I will always strenuously disagree with this idea. Perhaps there is some good energy work around, but I suspect that most people have very little idea of what they're actually doing, especially when their energy work is based on kundalini energy.

 

I say this not from fear of kundalini, but from respect for kundalini energy as part of an incredibly sensitive and magnificent subtle energy system, which if cultivated will release kundalini energy in small doses at specific times, which lead to union with the true self. Kundalini released at random times at the whim of the energy worker cannot lead to the true self, no matter what.

[Karl]

There seems to be an underlying message contantly being reaffirmed by energy workers that all energy work is good but that some people are just unable to deal with the consequences of it, and I will always strenuously disagree with this idea. Perhaps there is some good energy work around, but I suspect that most people have very little idea of what they're actually doing, especially when their energy work is based on kundalini energy.

I say this not from fear of kundalini, but from respect for kundalini energy as part of an incredibly sensitive and magnificent subtle energy system, which if cultivated will release kundalini energy in small doses at specific times, which lead to union with the true self. Kundalini released at random times at the whim of the energy worker cannot lead to the true self, no matter what.

That is equally true without adding 'energy work'. As we say in motorcycling 'all the gear and no idea'. Still, a bit of paranoia/anxiety isn't a severe case of smashed up body, but it can feel pretty terrible all the same, it can feel almost as bad, it just doesn't come with the physical scars.

[dawei]

There seems to be an underlying message contantly being reaffirmed by energy workers that all energy work is good but that some people are just unable to deal with the consequences of it, and I will always strenuously disagree with this idea. Perhaps there is some good energy work around, but I suspect that most people have very little idea of what they're actually doing, especially when their energy work is based on kundalini energy.

 

I'm not sure that is the message I'm hearing... to me it is more like: Not all energy is for everyone.   IF we remove assigning energy as good vs bad, then we are left with the idea that it is our interaction with energy that senses good or bad.   And even the sense may not be completely correct but it is our sense of the interaction.

 

I remember in Medical Qigong that for most of the group, the MCO was something they had never tried and some were scared at the sensations that arose.   One has to see if they are doing the practice correctly; if they are sticking through it to a point where it moves past the initial issues that will arise, and importantly for this practice that while you are trying to open blockages you do not actually cause stagnation of energy yourself.   I think member Link said well, in such cases like this, attachment and focus may be making some issues worse, so there is an aspect of letting go on some level.   And even what I describe above is not for everyone. 

 

Not all energy experienced is due to transmission but that may be another point and thread...