Energy transmission and sharing - a debate

[liminal_luke]

Good idea but Jeff does not believe in protection or shielding etc.

 

Perhaps not, but I do.  If people want to share protection 101 strategies in another thread, I´d be interested to read it. 

[Taomeow]

Good idea but Jeff does not believe in protection or shielding etc.

 

Well, I wasn't there, so I am rather unclear on who believes in what and who said/did what and which side if any anyone's on. 

 

I remember engaging in a TDB chat years ago, and saying more than I intended to, and regretting it.  No one did anything wrong, but I felt compelled to share a lot of private information and the regret was along the lines of, the receptacle was very accidental, and there's levels of intimacy -- it wasn't sexual at all, just intimacy in the sense of being open and by consequence vulnerable -- that were reached that felt inappropriate later. 

 

I was pulled into that level of intimacy by the party to the conversation being in dire straits and me wanting to match my own difficult experiences to his/hers (I won't say who it was) in order to support, to be on the same wavelength, and so on.  In hind sight I realized that he/she gave me nothing in return, too preoccupied with his/her own struggles to even notice that I went above and beyond into the territory of -- well, a territory reserved for close intimate friends.  I felt very lousy after that exchange.  I felt cheated, and had no one to blame but myself and the medium of exchange (sic).

 

So, no more chat rooms for me since then.  The medium itself is dangerous for me, I am not as worried about people's energies (although caution never hurts) as about wuxing energies (phases of qi), a far more immediate influence on me.  I know that rapid electrical Fire is my wuxing anathema, energetically speaking, and the root of this dynamics is my own wuxing makeup and nobody's fault.  There's many others in the same boat, only not many consciously try to navigate theirs, or know where it's headed unless they do.   They may merely mistake a phase of qi that's detrimental to their own for someone else's doing.  Or someone else's doing may amplify and exacerbate the imbalance.  There's many scenarios.

 

Wuxing shields (which we call bazi remedies) exist too, by the way, but they don't hold up forever and the traditional approach to dealing with an unfavorable phase of qi is avoidance.  Protection works to an extent, for a while, but the influence is constant (lifelong, and stronger in specific years, at specific times) so all shields wear off.  Sometimes, therefore, avoidance is best.

 

All in all, I'm grateful I'm not the one who is going to have to make the decision about what to ban and what to allow -- although I do have my opinion.  Good luck to those to whom the task falls today.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Taomeow

[Bindi]

My own experience of chat room energy sharing with 2 members of the Light group was a study in the dangers of energy work carried out by a self-appointed energy teacher. Within a week or two of merging a few times I was subject to nonconsensual astral sex, and loosening of my kundalini energy. This can be dismissed as merely my fear perception as it has been up till now, or it can be taken as an indication of the danger of playing with energy inappropriately.

 

For myself, and because of my specific experience of 'energy chat', it goes without saying that I find this specific group to have a high potential for damage to people seeking spiritual experience, and I would suggest that those who don't find it damaging are merely lacking in the ability to perceive the damage being done.

[Jeff]

Good idea but Jeff does not believe in protection or shielding etc.

Here we go again...

 

May I ask why you feel the need to try to define my position on a topic, rather than just describe your own? Additionally create new drama?

[Jeff]

Perhaps not, but I do.  If people want to share protection 101 strategies in another thread, I´d be interested to read it. 

Count me in on being interested in reading it.

[dawei]

So, no more chat rooms for me since then.  The medium itself is dangerous for me, I am not as worried about people's energies (although caution never hurts) as about wuxing energies (phases of qi), a far more immediate influence on me.  I know that rapid electrical Fire is my wuxhing anathema, energetically speaking, and the root of this dynamics is my own wuxing makeup and nobody's fault.  There's many others in the same boat, only not many consciously try to navigate theirs, or know where it's headed unless they do.   They may merely mistake a phase of qi that's detrimental to their own for someone else's doing.  Or someone else's doing may amplify and exacerbate the imbalance.  There's many scenarios.

 

The medium is just a connector/path but it could be else where... but a chat room likely amplifies as it draws it all closer together.

 

I have had two experiences with the same he/she and the first was a bit painful and the second seemed more harmful...  

 

But I don't splash generalizations of accusations that they are painful or harmful in their practice.  

 

That is part of the loop: Something was sent and received; sent back and received; and sent back and received....

 

One person feels calm, another harm.   Both are right to say that is their experience but both are wrong to try and claim anyone else will have that experience. 

 

yes indeed... many scenarios...  

[ralis]

My own experience of chat room energy sharing with 2 members of the Light group was a study in the dangers of energy work carried out by a self-appointed energy teacher. Within a week or two of merging a few times I was subject to nonconsensual astral sex, and loosening of my kundalini energy. This can be dismissed as merely my fear perception as it has been up till now, or it can be taken as an indication of the danger of playing with energy inappropriately.

 

For myself, and because of my specific experience of 'energy chat', it goes without saying that I find this specific group to have a high potential for damage to people seeking spiritual experience, and I would suggest that those who don't find it damaging are merely lacking in the ability to perceive the damage being done.

 

First time I have heard of a specific 'Light Group' here. Do they have their own sub forum?

[liminal_luke]

Not a fan of chat here either.  I like composing my posts at leisure in the main areas of the board, and I´m a big editor -- something I couldn´t do in chat.  Chat seems like it would provide more connection but it´s this weird in-between place for me, somehow too intimate and not enough all at once.

 

A member once posted pictures of his home and a conversation got started about drinking mint juleps or some such on his veranda.  That would be nice.  Until then I think I´ll stick to my normal post writing. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Bindi]

First time I have heard of a specific 'Light Group' here. Do they have their own sub forum?

 

Not yet  They have their own forums though, so the issue of whether energy chat should be allowed here is complicated, maybe it's more about the rights of the light group rather than their dire need to use this specific chat room, and whether they are innocuous or potentially dangerous then might be the deciding factor.

 

There has also been some concern voiced that the light group recruit new members from daobums, but this concern has been summarily dismissed so far, as have most concerns regarding them.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Bindi

[liminal_luke]

...

Edited September 10, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Albion]

Many years ago (the 1980's) I was involved with the occult (occult=French= "What is hidden"), specifically, with British Traditional Witchcraft, which is *exceedingly rare* In America.

 

In *some* really olden covens, initiation is by sexual intercourse.

 

A special 'kind of' sexual intercourse. I'm not sure "astral" sex is/was what it was, but there might be some similarities there.

 

This put me in mind about the piece that I read about "astral sex" going on in the chat room here.

 

You know, *a person in my mind, should NOT be used in any way* (especially sexually) unless she or he has a complete understanding of what's happening, and what he or she is DOING, and WHY.

 

I think sexual magic is very powerful, and can be *dangerous*, to both sides of those using sexual magic, if it's not done in the correct way.

 

This requires pretty intensive training, and it's NOT to be toyed with (in my opinion), especially not in a chat room environment.

 

This is all my *opinion* and that's all that I really have to say about it, except everyone should  be VERY careful with sexual magic......in ALL of it's forms.

 

That's it. Just an opinion. Please understand this. Thanks.

 

Peace, Differently Abled Daoist

Edited September 10, 2016 by DifferentlyAbledDaoist

[Gerard]

The wonderful Theravada Buddhist monastic order is very clear about sex and those who are willing to follow this path with complete dedication (being enlightenment the ultimate fruit of such effort):

 

1. Buddhism

 

1. Complete sexual continence is considered an essential feature of the monastic life.

2. Most people who are strongly addicted to sexual indulgence are also much drawn to other sense-pleasures.

3. As long as there remains even a latent craving (including that for sex), according to the Buddhist teaching rebirth will inevitably continue to take place. For we are reborn, not merely because of the sexual drive which brought about the union of our parents, but also because of that same sexual drive in "ourselves," i.e., in that stream of consciousness which produces the changing series of patterns of our own particular individuality.

4. From all this the conclusion may be drawn that, while it is indeed possible to "transcend sexuality" in this life, it is not by any means as simple as some suppose, and many who think they have done it are deceiving themselves. Nevertheless there are many in the robe and out of it who, without having reached this stage, have in practice gained complete control of the sex impulse.

5. How, then, can control of sexuality be achieved? A large measure of control can certainly be gained by concentrative (samatha) meditation practice, which stills the mind and can lead to the jhana states.

6. But the other way, and the truly Buddhist way, which can lead right to the goal, is the way of Insight. The main scriptural basis for this is the Satipatthana Sutta. The four foundations of mindfulness as set forth there are: mindfulness as to body, feelings, states of mind, and mind-contents. With reference to "states of mind," it is said: "He knows lustful mind and the mind that is free from lust. He knows how lust arises and how it ceases." This is not a manual of meditation, and it must suffice here just to indicate how by mindfulness one comes to discover how mental and physical phenomena arise and cease, and therefore, ultimately, how to bring about their cessation. In this method, there is no forcing. Rigid suppression by an act of will is not required — and will not anyway lead to the goal. When even quite intractable-seeming personal problems are fully seen in their true nature, they will dissolve. It may take time and much perseverance, but it is a way of gentleness, which does no violence to one's nature. Eventually, if steadfastly pursued, it can lead to the solution of all our problems, not only those connected with sex. Slowly and patiently, we can disentangle by mindfulness all the guilt feelings and other complications which may have developed. And we come to realize, probably to our surprise, that the seeing is the cure, when the seeing is deep enough.

 

Source: Buddhism and sex

 

 

Lust is indeed a very powerful fetter, the second strongest, in fact, right after delusion.

 

It takes a very considerable amount of effort, intelligent and planned course of action to overcome it. But once it is gone...it's gone for good! It's like if the fetter dropped out completely out of your system. The spirit is not clinging to it anymore, the Heart stops racing because it will race very fast when it comes time to deal with lust, to remove it from the Heart itself as the fetter has been carried for countless lifetimes. In the meantime, stay away from females (and males, if you are a female practitioner) and any form of visual contact as in sensual visual imagery.

 

Note: Two of my past lifetimes were spent living a life full of sexual gratification: one as a French courtesan Madame du Barry, who lived a life as a high-class prostitute, basically. Another one as a Japanese geisha. The consequences of this are still felt today as a human being called Gerard.

 

Do you think it's easy to overcome this fetter? It's not, do not delude yourself thinking it is.

 

Even Ajahn Maha Boowa discusses the amount of effort he underwent while tackling this pesky fetter:

 

Because its adversary is so tenacious, wisdom’s  battle  with  sexual  craving  resembles  a  full-scale  war. For  this  reason,  only  a  bold  and  uncompromising  strategy  will succeed. There is only one appropriate course of action—an all out struggle; and the meditator will know this instinctively.

 

Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship

 

 

2. Taoism (more scientific)

 

The people of today . . .
through their lust they exhaust their essence,
through their wastefulness they dissipate their true [qi].
They do not know how to maintain fullness and
they engage their spirit when it is not the right time.

 

To find pleasure in sex is called “lust.” To make frivolous use [of one’s essence]
is called “wastefulness.” If one takes pleasure in sex without limits, then one’s
essence will be exhausted. If one makes frivolous use [of one’s essence] with-
out end, then the true qi will be dissipated. Hence it is because the sages cher-
ished [their] essence and carefully considered its use that their bones were full
of marrow and strong.

 

Source: Huang Di Nei Jing Su Wen

 

Combine both approaches to 'win' the battle against lust, purely mind-based (Buddhist) and energetic (lust will deplete Jing and in turn weaken qi and shen won't be nourished. The Heart guards lust tightly and a combined approach of Jing + Qi will be required to clease the Heart and remove all traces of lust. Jing is the 'fuel' and Qi the 'cleaning product'.

 

 

Good luck!

Edited September 10, 2016 by Gerard

[ralis]

The wonderful Theravada Buddhist monastic order is very clear about sex and those who are willing to follow this path with complete dedication (being enlightenment the ultimate fruit of such effort):

 

1. Buddhism

 

1. Complete sexual continence is considered an essential feature of the monastic life.

2. Most people who are strongly addicted to sexual indulgence are also much drawn to other sense-pleasures.

3. As long as there remains even a latent craving (including that for sex), according to the Buddhist teaching rebirth will inevitably continue to take place. For we are reborn, not merely because of the sexual drive which brought about the union of our parents, but also because of that same sexual drive in "ourselves," i.e., in that stream of consciousness which produces the changing series of patterns of our own particular individuality.

4. From all this the conclusion may be drawn that, while it is indeed possible to "transcend sexuality" in this life, it is not by any means as simple as some suppose, and many who think they have done it are deceiving themselves. Nevertheless there are many in the robe and out of it who, without having reached this stage, have in practice gained complete control of the sex impulse.

5. How, then, can control of sexuality be achieved? A large measure of control can certainly be gained by concentrative (samatha) meditation practice, which stills the mind and can lead to the jhana states.

6. But the other way, and the truly Buddhist way, which can lead right to the goal, is the way of Insight. The main scriptural basis for this is the Satipatthana Sutta. The four foundations of mindfulness as set forth there are: mindfulness as to body, feelings, states of mind, and mind-contents. With reference to "states of mind," it is said: "He knows lustful mind and the mind that is free from lust. He knows how lust arises and how it ceases." This is not a manual of meditation, and it must suffice here just to indicate how by mindfulness one comes to discover how mental and physical phenomena arise and cease, and therefore, ultimately, how to bring about their cessation. In this method, there is no forcing. Rigid suppression by an act of will is not required — and will not anyway lead to the goal. When even quite intractable-seeming personal problems are fully seen in their true nature, they will dissolve. It may take time and much perseverance, but it is a way of gentleness, which does no violence to one's nature. Eventually, if steadfastly pursued, it can lead to the solution of all our problems, not only those connected with sex. Slowly and patiently, we can disentangle by mindfulness all the guilt feelings and other complications which may have developed. And we come to realize, probably to our surprise, that the seeing is the cure, when the seeing is deep enough.

 

Source: Buddhism and sex

 

 

Lust is indeed a very powerful fetter, the second strongest, in fact, right after delusion.

 

It takes a very considerable amount of effort, intelligent and planned course of action to overcome it. But once it is gone...it's gone for good! It's like if the fetter dropped out completely out of your system. The spirit is not clinging to it anymore, the Heart stops racing because it will race very fast when it comes time to deal with lust, to remove it from the Heart itself as the fetter has been carried for countless lifetimes. In the meantime, stay away from females (and males, if you are a female practitioner) and any form of visual contact as in sensual visual imagery.

 

Note: Two of my past lifetimes were spent living a life full of sexual gratification: one as a French courtesan Madame du Barry, who lived a life as a high-class prostitute, basically. Another one as a Japanese geisha. The consequences of this are still felt today as a human being called Gerard.

 

Do you think it's easy to overcome this fetter? It's not, do not delude yourself thinking it is.

 

Even Ajahn Maha Boowa discusses the amount of effort he underwent while tackling this pesky fetter:

 

Because its adversary is so tenacious, wisdom’s  battle  with  sexual  craving  resembles  a  full-scale  war. For  this  reason,  only  a  bold  and  uncompromising  strategy  will succeed. There is only one appropriate course of action—an all out struggle; and the meditator will know this instinctively.

 

Arahattamagga Arahattaphala - The Path to Arahantship

 

 

2. Taoism (more scientific)

 

The people of today . . .

through their lust they exhaust their essence,

through their wastefulness they dissipate their true [qi].

They do not know how to maintain fullness and

they engage their spirit when it is not the right time.

 

To find pleasure in sex is called “lust.” To make frivolous use [of one’s essence]

is called “wastefulness.” If one takes pleasure in sex without limits, then one’s

essence will be exhausted. If one makes frivolous use [of one’s essence] with-

out end, then the true qi will be dissipated. Hence it is because the sages cher-

ished [their] essence and carefully considered its use that their bones were full

of marrow and strong.

 

Source: Huang Di Nei Jing Su Wen

 

Combine both approaches to 'win' the battle against lust, purely mind-based (Buddhist) and energetic (lust will deplete Jing and in turn weaken qi and shen won't be nourished. The Heart guards lust tightly and a combined approach of Jing + Qi will be required to clease the Heart and remove all traces of lust. Jing is the 'fuel' and Qi the 'cleaning product'.

 

 

Good luck!

 

You expect one to take this condescending preachy lecture seriously? What you view as a serious text on the lustful evils of sex must have been written by one with severe character armoring/sexual and emotional suppression. Your lecture has no standing in this thread.

[Karl]

I know I said I wouldn't, but I was curious to see where this went.

 

Anecdotally, when I was pretending to be a therapist, I had a client, a young woman who had a very troubled soul. Part of pretending to be a good therapist is empathy and it's possible to create incredible levels of empathy in order to get into the clients mind-not in the literal sense. In order that this occurs it is necessary to become very open and drop all defences and get the client to do likewise. I notice that this has been mentioned in passing several times as -intimacy- and that's exactly what heightened empathy feels like.

 

During the session I began to feel uneasy and, after the session that unease became anxiety. I began to experience the same thing my client was clearly experiencing-it reminded me of the Spock mind meld. As practitioners we had been warned that this could happen, but I poo pooed it and waved if away. We were told that sometimes when there is a similar schism of mind, then high empathy can cause 'stuff to surface'. It's no joke when this happens and gets referred to as 'transference'.

 

Note here that no transference occurs without specific interaction and that it requires the person to be physically in the room - it can be entirely non verbal as we pick up body language and a host of other clues. I don't see anything that suggests the effect cannot be the same through straight chat if it's dynamic-LD made mention that he prefers not to engage in chat and when there is specific empathetic engagement required (in effect a verbal orgy) and someone has their own weaknesses (and LD has intimated that he does and is aware of them) then they had better stay away. The problem is that people don't always know they have a weakness and in intimate conversations this can cause anxiety and paranoia (just as I experienced with my client), it is perceptually experienced through conception and seems very real, in a way it is, just as fear or love are very real in the sense of emotion.

 

Sex is a function of conception in humans, it is 100% in the mind, the physical act doesn't even register when experienced objectively. It's a release and its pleasurable, but it's only when the mind entwines with the act that it develops significance. Sex is only the end product of total intimacy of mind, when we share values and bodies, but it's not necessary to share bodies except for the 'release part'. So, in a chat room, sure, no reason not if you specifically set it up as an orgy, an orgy is what it will be. It's exactly the same as ghost hunting, if we set our minds to be open to each other's intimate fear, then we can wind each other up just by being present. We can open up primal fears which reside in our subconscious conceptions and have them manifest physically.

 

I won't comment on 'energy' only that I'm very aware that this happens naturally and is very real for those that partake. For those that are vulnerable they will know it, others can give out these signals which are unpleasant to the receiver and are unaware that they are doing it.

 

This discussion has cleared up a lot of things I see written here and specifically in reference to the way I post. It hadn't occurred to me that people here might well be 'open' in an empathetic sense as 'intuitive feelers' to use the Jungian terminology. That this can happen with just a written word is in some senses extraordinary, but then a good writer can make the reader feel emotion. It is a connection, so maybe not so suprising.

 

What is been indulged in here is a kind of mental orgy. In effect if another is allowed in 'empathetically' you are indulging in conceptual sex whether you realise it or not. It isn't real sex, it is also not with real values, so no love is involved. Pretty sleazy really, it's kind of like swinging on the mental plane so I woukd suggest, if you have any pride, you don't indulge in it. No doubt there are some which woukd claim they know what they are doing and only have good intentions-as I was as a pretend therapist-but it can bounce back on you even if you are practising healing.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

Here we go again...

 

May I ask why you feel the need to try to define my position on a topic, rather than just describe your own? Additionally create new drama?

 

 

Come on Jeff - I'm not creating a drama just recounting previous experiences in trying to discuss protection and shielding with you.  But fair enough I will avoid stating your position - perhaps you will do so yourself.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Apech

[Apech]

Hello,

 

We seem to have unexpectedly moved to Taoist Discussion for reasons as yet unconfirmed.  I hope this doesn't break the flow.  Perhaps the staff will be good enough to let us know why they did that.

 

A couple of very important issues have come up on the last two pages.  For instance:

 

1 )  people seem to find chat to be more vulnerable to some kind of influence than the main board - possibly because of the quasi-intimacy of the immediate chat function.  Some people don't go there for this reason.  I, on the other hand got here because I like chatting - but I usually, unless someone asks a serious question, keep it light and frivolous.  Maybe this is my own protection against too much energy interaction/influence ... I hadn't considered that before.

 

2 ) advice on style and self protection on entering chat might be appropriate - rather than the current 'no sexcapades' warning.

 

3 ) the whole conversation has focussed a lot on the astral sex thing.  You can easily see that there is a spectrum of ethical attitudes to this - from the rather dogmatic and censorious to the free and easy.  This is why I think it is impossible to have a DBs rule for this - apart from 'what happens in private satays in private'.

 

4 ) I don't want to target the Light Group particularly - it's just that they are probably the most active group at present.  So I don't think this should get personal.  

 

5 ) A separate thread on self-protection would be a good idea - thanks for that suggestion TM.

[blue eyed snake]

I'm happy that these undercurrents now become visible and talked about. it one of the things that attracted me to the forums, the pit, where the highlights of old shit can be found. So I'm happy that a ( somewhat cleaned up version) of the sexcapades thread is back there.

 

I've been aware of the fact that energy ' play' was going on in the chatroom and that was and is a reason for me not to go there, but I do not miss it really. I'm not much of a chatter, even though sometimes i would like to chat about mundane things, like growing gardens etc.

 

so not personally involved here

 

Somewhere i read that people who 'received' this energy felt hurt/damaged/ whatever and have been given help by other members of the forum. Thanks for those helpful people but the one doing the intentional ' sending of energy' ought too be capable of doing that, it's his/her responsibility.

 

Even though I'm much a beginner, I do have some experience with energy being ' transmitted'. I do not have fancy words for it but'll try to speak my mind

 

1) transmission of this kind can sort of open up the energetic system, thereby making people vulnerable for intrusion. I think, not even specifically only from the transmitter, but also others. These encounters can have a highly sexual feeling and thereby become something the receiver can become attached to, thereby prolonging these strange ' encounters' and depleting the person of his energy/vitality. This has happened to me, years ago, when i was not even a beginner...I told the guy who messed with my energy-system and he was shocked, he did not mean to do that. I told him that it was time to go back to his teacher, his energetic powers were exceeding his wisdom.

looking back it seems to me that this has attributed to my state of chronic fatigue.

 

mind you, this guy meant well and clearly acted from the heart....took my advice to heart too, it was like " aw, shit, did not have the slightest that those kind of things would happen to you. so he has started to grow further, that's good.

 

Now, i think this is a sort of phase cultivators ( can, maybe have to) go through

 

 

2) the other thing that can ( and will) happen is that old trauma's open up. Some people harbour deep trauma's, when you've reached a certain point in cultivation you're able to ' unblock' those emotions. But the receiver then has to deal with it.  For un-traumatized people this can be..hard to understand I think. But take my word, there are many of them, everywhere and on this board. And there not all young ( or newbies). IMHO, these people can be exceptionally vulnerable, because many of them seek the way of energy, and energetic healing, as the answer for there problems. I empathize with them for I was one of them.

When an old trauma opens up you get confronted with all the pain/fear/anger etc that is locked up in you. That's a very hard road and you've to be ready for that and in the period that this is happening you need help to keep you from, for instance, becoming psychotic, or in other ways becoming totally unhinged.

 

even though I do not much like to share this, I will still do it, it might be helpful for some who are reading this.

 

Some years after my previous mentioned story I found my teacher, he taught me qigung and meditation and helped me clear blockages. And then i opened up the worst of them, I've been lying down shaking uncontrollably for hours, energy then began flowing thereby opening up even more. It was emotionally devastating, then totally unexpected kundalini reared its head thereby opening up even more.

For weeks on end I've been in the throes of severe kriya's, of becoming ' psychic' being aware of/ seeing ' things' I had not dreamed existed. I was hardly able to function, to take care of myself in the most basic sense.

 

through all those weeks my teacher was there for me, everytime I needed it he was there to energetically 'hold my hand/ hug me'. make me feel safe, to steer me on the right path, imnstruct me what to do with these energyflows that were too large for my body-mind to hold, to keep the fear at bay. And when he wasn't able to come he did send eh...lets call it assistants.... without him, I would not be sitting here, typing, I would have gone off to a realm of fear and sickness .

 

As it is I've gotten rid of PTSD, I'm eternally grateful, but he does not want to hear anything of that. " you did all the work yourself" yes I did, but without his help in the aftermath of loosening up, it would have led to ruin.

 

His powers are in accordance with his wisdom, he knew what he was doing and sustained me through it.

 

That is what i miss in the stories I read about this so called lightgroup, and that is bothering me.

 

Both for the people intentionally transmitting energy, as I feel that acting like a 'guru' or something, and afterwards not taking peoples pain and fears serious and/or not being able to help them with it. Is doing a disservice to humankind (to put it softly) and will have its very own karmic repercussions, I do not wish those on anybody.

When you're not aware of it, as the guy in my first example, it cannot be helped, but by now it must be clear that, at least for some people, something unhealthy seems to be going on here. I hereby ask you, not knowing who you are, to look at yourself, to look at your actions and take your own responsibility.

 

For the receivers of this energy, things just can go severely wrong, where there was no need for it. A slow route, and more experienced help can do so awfully much for people with severe blockages.

 

Informed consent is somesort of...eh, when you haven't burnt yourself it's so easy to think it all safe and nice. And i can readily imagine that the chat is a place where you can easily be seduced into things that you will regret afterwards.

 

I wish the staff luck with finding ways and I would be happy with a thread about ways to self-protect,

 

BES

 

 

[Gerard]

Energy transmission and sharing

 

 

My experience:

 

1. Deep down we are all alone...we all know that but it's just a reminder.

2. The spirit (true essence) is not located anywhere in the physical body...hence you must do the math alone

3. The process cannot be rushed or speeded up, it doesn't make any sense, it would be like forcing the salmon swim faster in the salmon run. They wouldn't be able to.

4. It's all about unlocking gates...in the spirit's journey to the Source/Dao/Nirvana

5. But there are systems that allow for an easier journey: Wandering in nature, living in a Himalayan or high mountain cave. Mountains allow for a greater energy potential due to the increased polarity, it would be like being attached to a huge acupuncture needle. There are places on Earth where the planet's Qi flow is increased, they act like energy hubs. Living in those locations allow for a smoother practice.

 

Changbai Shan, the place where Wang Liping first started his journey is one of those locations:

 

 

Fire and Water in one single place. Great Earth Qi in that spot. Incredible place, great for a Fire Horse like me , and near the Korean border, very Metal.

 

Spend 6 months there in meditation and when you come back...if you ever do, you'll be a totally different person, for sure.

 

Energy exchange with the planet is the most efficient and economical way of healing and progress.

 

Ancient Taoists are the best proof of that. Taoism was born, developed and refined in the mountains.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Gerard

[Apech]

Hurrah!

 

We're back in General.

[Kar3n]

Hello,

 

We seem to have unexpectedly moved to Taoist Discussion for reasons as yet unconfirmed.  I hope this doesn't break the flow.  Perhaps the staff will be good enough to let us know why they did that.

 

...

***

An error on my part...

I merged a post in to the thread and it went unnoticed that it changed the sub-from as well. 

I have restored it to general discussion.

Humble apologies.

 

***

[Kubba]

Energy transmission and sharing

 

I want to open a debate about energy transmission – particularly that done over the internet especially this site. There’s been a lot of talk about this recently in connection with the chatroom and the ‘sexcapades’ thread. Particularly whether it’s ok or not as a practice and what if such energy sharing includes what might be termed astral sex.

 

I know some members do not believe in any of this but I would like to ask them to stay out of this debate (yes I mean you Karl ) as it is a debate for practitioners. I’m not interested in debating the possibility of energy transmission happening in the first place. So any posts along those lines will be reported. So don’t bother.

 

The purpose of this debate is to get some agreement and clarity over what is energy transmission between people, when it is ok and when it is not. Should it be something that happens at DaoBums and if so how should it be handled by the staff (Admin and mods).

 

To kick off the debate and give some objectivity I’m going to use terms from Damo Mitchells ‘White Moon on the Mountain Peak’ Chapter 10 ‘Tranmission Teaching’ - to which I am going to add a category of my own which is not strictly about teaching.

 

So these are the types of teachings he mentions in his book:

 

1 ) qi level teaching

 

The most common form where the teacher has developed suffiently that their LDT generates an energy field which transmitts energy/information to his pupils.

 

2 ) shen level tranmission

 

Where the MDT of the teacher is suffiently developed so that ‘information can be directed upwards from this and then out via the third eye region of the head into a student.’

 

This type of transmission can be general to a group, or targetted to individuals and also can involve channeling a higher entity or deity.

 

3 ) emptiness Level transmission

 

This is the most advanced form of training where just the presence of the master causes the student to shift into the Wuji state.

 

To these levels given in Damo’s book I think we can add:

 

a ) normal interaction.

We are mostly already cultivators here on DBs at various levels of progress. During normal interchange and posting it is likely that we will pick up radiation/vibrations – call them what you will – from the other person. This is really just normal as ina real life conversation as well as the words there is a dialogue of impressions, body language and so on going on. Its not really a transmission in the conscious sense but just a byproduct of the presence of energy in our lives.

 

b ) astral sexual relations

 

Yes! Really. This also has two aspects:

 

i ) individuals who wish to engage in this activity in private but using the board as the medium.

 

ii ) the use of sexual imagery to boost energy exchange one-to-one or in groups.

 

 

I’ll lay my cards on the table and say that I did object to general Chat being used for group energy work. But my objection was misunderstood as being a complete objection to energy work. This was not the case. I simply found that it was impossible to carry on normal chat with this going on in the background. The group concerned had two other web sites they use and so I thought that they should take their practice there.

 

This seems to resulted, indirectly, to a rule being imposed for the chat room ‘no sexcapades’. I prefer a minimum of rules and a maximum of freedom of expression. But I understand there are sensitivities around this so ... let’s debate what they are.

In most cases people do it carelessly, they do not know what it is all about. Then they suffer. All sorts of working with phenomenas involves subtle sense of pride which is not healthy. I would say ask yourself why do you want to do any of these?

[mindtooloud]

 

I simply find it impossible to carry out a normal group energy activity with a chat going on in the background.

[Apech]

I simply find it impossible to carry out a normal group energy activity with a chat going on in the background.

 

You could practice autarky

[link]

Having been involved with some influential beings in "the light group" in the past (for a few years, outside of this site/chat) - I have a few things to add here:

 

First, the energy interactions can have significant effects in many aspects of life - energetically, emotionally, mentally, in relationships, etc. Continued interaction forms a relationship which tends to include and strengthen attachments in that relationship (other attachments are also usually affected in various ways, depending on the circumstances).

 

This type of relationship is not something to be approached in a casual way, the effects are such that it deserves thorough consideration. For these and related reasons, I don't see the chat venue as being a good medium to establish such a relationship. Yes, we are all "transmitting and receiving," regardless. However, the intentional merging, sharing presence, light, energy, etc., is- in effect- not the same as chatting or casual interaction.

Edited September 10, 2016 by link

[Jeff]

I'm happy that these undercurrents now become visible and talked about. it one of the things that attracted me to the forums, the pit, where the highlights of old shit can be found. So I'm happy that a ( somewhat cleaned up version) of the sexcapades thread is back there.

 

I've been aware of the fact that energy ' play' was going on in the chatroom and that was and is a reason for me not to go there, but I do not miss it really. I'm not much of a chatter, even though sometimes i would like to chat about mundane things, like growing gardens etc.

 

so not personally involved here

 

Somewhere i read that people who 'received' this energy felt hurt/damaged/ whatever and have been given help by other members of the forum. Thanks for those helpful people but the one doing the intentional ' sending of energy' ought too be capable of doing that, it's his/her responsibility.

 

Even though I'm much a beginner, I do have some experience with energy being ' transmitted'. I do not have fancy words for it but'll try to speak my mind

 

1) transmission of this kind can sort of open up the energetic system, thereby making people vulnerable for intrusion. I think, not even specifically only from the transmitter, but also others. These encounters can have a highly sexual feeling and thereby become something the receiver can become attached to, thereby prolonging these strange ' encounters' and depleting the person of his energy/vitality. This has happened to me, years ago, when i was not even a beginner...I told the guy who messed with my energy-system and he was shocked, he did not mean to do that. I told him that it was time to go back to his teacher, his energetic powers were exceeding his wisdom.

looking back it seems to me that this has attributed to my state of chronic fatigue.

 

mind you, this guy meant well and clearly acted from the heart....took my advice to heart too, it was like " aw, shit, did not have the slightest that those kind of things would happen to you. so he has started to grow further, that's good.

 

Now, i think this is a sort of phase cultivators ( can, maybe have to) go through

 

 

2) the other thing that can ( and will) happen is that old trauma's open up. Some people harbour deep trauma's, when you've reached a certain point in cultivation you're able to ' unblock' those emotions. But the receiver then has to deal with it.  For un-traumatized people this can be..hard to understand I think. But take my word, there are many of them, everywhere and on this board. And there not all young ( or newbies). IMHO, these people can be exceptionally vulnerable, because many of them seek the way of energy, and energetic healing, as the answer for there problems. I empathize with them for I was one of them.

When an old trauma opens up you get confronted with all the pain/fear/anger etc that is locked up in you. That's a very hard road and you've to be ready for that and in the period that this is happening you need help to keep you from, for instance, becoming psychotic, or in other ways becoming totally unhinged.

 

even though I do not much like to share this, I will still do it, it might be helpful for some who are reading this.

 

Some years after my previous mentioned story I found my teacher, he taught me qigung and meditation and helped me clear blockages. And then i opened up the worst of them, I've been lying down shaking uncontrollably for hours, energy then began flowing thereby opening up even more. It was emotionally devastating, then totally unexpected kundalini reared its head thereby opening up even more.

For weeks on end I've been in the throes of severe kriya's, of becoming ' psychic' being aware of/ seeing ' things' I had not dreamed existed. I was hardly able to function, to take care of myself in the most basic sense.

 

through all those weeks my teacher was there for me, everytime I needed it he was there to energetically 'hold my hand/ hug me'. make me feel safe, to steer me on the right path, imnstruct me what to do with these energyflows that were too large for my body-mind to hold, to keep the fear at bay. And when he wasn't able to come he did send eh...lets call it assistants.... without him, I would not be sitting here, typing, I would have gone off to a realm of fear and sickness .

 

As it is I've gotten rid of PTSD, I'm eternally grateful, but he does not want to hear anything of that. " you did all the work yourself" yes I did, but without his help in the aftermath of loosening up, it would have led to ruin.

 

His powers are in accordance with his wisdom, he knew what he was doing and sustained me through it.

 

That is what i miss in the stories I read about this so called lightgroup, and that is bothering me.

 

Both for the people intentionally transmitting energy, as I feel that acting like a 'guru' or something, and afterwards not taking peoples pain and fears serious and/or not being able to help them with it. Is doing a disservice to humankind (to put it softly) and will have its very own karmic repercussions, I do not wish those on anybody.

When you're not aware of it, as the guy in my first example, it cannot be helped, but by now it must be clear that, at least for some people, something unhealthy seems to be going on here. I hereby ask you, not knowing who you are, to look at yourself, to look at your actions and take your own responsibility.

 

For the receivers of this energy, things just can go severely wrong, where there was no need for it. A slow route, and more experienced help can do so awfully much for people with severe blockages.

 

Informed consent is somesort of...eh, when you haven't burnt yourself it's so easy to think it all safe and nice. And i can readily imagine that the chat is a place where you can easily be seduced into things that you will regret afterwards.

 

I wish the staff luck with finding ways and I would be happy with a thread about ways to self-protect,

 

BES

I think you have raised some very good points. Especially highlighting that the spiritual process hits very deep issues and fears. Some release (let go of) those issues and fears and others don't (wanting to maintain that same individual sense of self). Letting go of deep issues & fears is hard work, and many talk about it, but very few really do it.

 

I also agree that if anyone is doing any energy work with another, ongoing support and help is critical (for the reasons you described). In my opinion, it is not appropriate to do stuff like give shaktipat (if you can really do it) and just move on like some traditions do. If you are doing such work, you should stick around to help, support and explain.

 

But, I would also say that much of this is self regulating. We all seem to find what we need at the time, even though it may feel like a scary rollercoaster ride at that moment.