Solar Eclipse over USA

[Bodhicitta]

In August of 2017 a total solar eclipse will pass over, and only over, the USA from NW to SE. If one wishes to stand in the path of totality and witness midnight in the daytime, here are the many possible sites to watch from - weather permitting of course.

 

http://www.eclipse2017.org/2017/path_through_the_US.htm

 

Does Taoism have anything to say, pro or con, about solar eclipses?

Edited September 11, 2016 by Bodhicitta

[Marblehead]

I would have to travel a little north into South Carolina to see it.  Just might do it as I have never experienced a full solar (or lunar) eclipse.

 

I have not read anything about them regarding Taoism but I'm sure literature exists that talks about them.

[sagebrush]

harvest moon last night with partial lunar eclipse.

 

I did not see it but a full moon

 

from internet glance I see that a partial lunar eclipse looks like a small shadow on the very edge of moon...

[thelerner]

The last few nights the moon has been beautiful.  I didn't catch the eclipse, but in the past I've been surprised at how interesting a lunar eclipse is.  You get a sense of distance and celestial mechanics as the sun (93 million miles away) creates an earth shadow that travels across the moon 250,000 miles from it.  

[Bodhicitta]

The path of totality is getting booked heavily, so if you wish to witness it in person, get busy.  Or watch it via NASA's online coverage:

 

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-prepares-for-aug-21-total-solar-eclipse-with-live-coverage-safety-information

[Brian]

I've already submitted a vacation request to take the day off!

[Zhongyongdaoist]

On 9/11/2016 at 8:15 AM, Bodhicitta said:

In August of 2017 a total solar eclipse will pass over, and only over, the USA from NW to SE. If one wishes to stand in the path of totality and witness midnight in the daytime, here are the many possible sites to watch from - weather permitting of course.

 

http://www.eclipse2017.org/2017/path_through_the_US.htm

 

Does Taoism have anything to say, pro or con, about solar eclipses? (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

My understanding is that eclipses are generally not viewed as positive in Chinese Astrology, just as they are viewed as potentially bad in Western Astrology.  Professor Jerry Alan Johnson says in one of his books on Daoist Magic that while eclipses are used a lot for Chinese "black" magic, practitioners of Chinese white magic don't do magic during eclipse periods at all.  I could find the reference if anyone is interested.  I found this interesting because it mirrors the traditional Western magical attitude.

 

While I have not looked at this eclipse in detail from the view of mundane astrology, I have been rather concerned about its possible effects on the U.S., among other things the eclipse conjuncts President Trump's ascendant degree and eclipses were associated with averse effects on government and heads of state.  As I recall the break up of the Soviet Union happened under a difficult eclipse pattern that started six months before, so it wasn't as complete a surprise to me as it was to just about everyone else.

[rene]

8 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

 

My understanding is that eclipses are generally not viewed as positive in Chinese Astrology, just as they are viewed as potentially bad in Western Astrology.  Professor Jerry Alan Johnson says in one of his books on Daoist Magic that while eclipses are used a lot for Chinese "black" magic, practitioners of Chinese white magic don't do magic during eclipse periods at all.  I could find the reference if anyone is interested.  I found this interesting because it mirrors the traditional Western magical attitude.

 

....

 

Hi ZYD,

Seems I recall reading (as recorded by Confucian historians) the meeting between Laozi and Confucious took place during an eclipse, making it even more auspicious (though not necessarily for the latter, lol). That ring any bells for you?

Thanks!

[Zhongyongdaoist]

25 minutes ago, WuDao said:

 

Hi ZYD,

Seems I recall reading (as recorded by Confucian historians) the meeting between Laozi and Confucious took place during an eclipse, making it even more auspicious (though not necessarily for the latter, lol). That ring any bells for you?

Thanks!

 

I don't know about the one you are talking about, but the most concrete reference linking Confucius with Laozi is the Chapter from the Liji, The Book of Rites, the - Zengzi Wen (曾子問), or Questions of Zengzi, which are a series of questions which Confucius disciple Zengzi was supposed to have asked Confucius about the Rites, in it a Lao Dan is cited as an authority whom Confucius had consulted, section 38 deals with funerals and eclipses:

 

38	曾子問:	曾子問曰：「葬引至於堩，日有食之，則有變乎？且不乎？」
	Zengzi Wen:	Zeng-zi asked, 'At a burial, when the bier has been drawn to the path (leading to the place), if there happen an eclipse of the sun, is any change made or not?'
		孔子曰：「昔者吾從老聃助葬於巷黨，及堩，日有食之，老聃曰：『丘！止柩，就道右，止哭以聽變。』既明反而後行。曰：『禮也。』反葬，而丘問之曰：『夫柩不可以反者也，日有食之，不知其已之遲數，則豈如行哉？』老聃曰：『諸侯朝天子，見日而行，逮日而舍奠；大夫使，見日而行，逮日而舍。夫柩不早出，不暮宿。見星而行者，唯罪人與奔父母之喪者乎！日有食之，安知其不見星也？且君子行禮，不以人之親痁患。』吾聞諸老聃云。」
		Confucius said, 'Formerly, along with Lao Dan, I was assisting at a burial in the village of Xiang, and when we had got to the path, the sun was eclipsed. Lao Dan said to me, "Qiu, let the bier be stopped on the left of the road; and then let us wail and wait till the eclipse pass away. When it is light again, we will proceed." He said that this was the rule. When we had returned and completed the burial, I said to him, "In the progress of a bier there should be no returning. When there is an eclipse of the sun, we do not know whether it will pass away quickly or not, would it not have been better to go on?" Lao Dan said, "When the prince of a state is going to the court of the son of Heaven, he travels while he can see the sun. At sun-down he halts, and presents his offerings (to the spirit of the way). When a Great officer is on a mission, he travels while he can see the sun, and at sun-down he halts. Now a bier does not set forth in the early morning, nor does it rest anywhere at night; but those who travel by star-light are only criminals and those who are hastening to the funeral rites of a parent. When there is an eclipse of the sun, how do we know that we shall not see the stars? And moreover, a superior man, in his performance of rites, will not expose his relatives to the risk of distress or evil." This is what I heard from Lao Dan.'

(From the Chinese Text Project)

 

It is this Lao Dan who has traditionally taken to be the historical Laozi, but there is no proof that this is so.

 

[rene]

48 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

 

I don't know about the one you are talking about, but the most concrete reference linking Confucius with Laozi is the Chapter from the Liji, The Book of Rites, the - Zengzi Wen (曾子問), or Questions of Zengzi, which are a series of questions which Confucius disciple Zengzi was supposed to have asked Confucius about the Rites, in it a Lao Dan is cited as an authority whom Confucius had consulted, section 38 deals with funerals and eclipses:

 

38	曾子問:	曾子問曰：「葬引至於堩，日有食之，則有變乎？且不乎？」
	Zengzi Wen:	Zeng-zi asked, 'At a burial, when the bier has been drawn to the path (leading to the place), if there happen an eclipse of the sun, is any change made or not?'
		孔子曰：「昔者吾從老聃助葬於巷黨，及堩，日有食之，老聃曰：『丘！止柩，就道右，止哭以聽變。』既明反而後行。曰：『禮也。』反葬，而丘問之曰：『夫柩不可以反者也，日有食之，不知其已之遲數，則豈如行哉？』老聃曰：『諸侯朝天子，見日而行，逮日而舍奠；大夫使，見日而行，逮日而舍。夫柩不早出，不暮宿。見星而行者，唯罪人與奔父母之喪者乎！日有食之，安知其不見星也？且君子行禮，不以人之親痁患。』吾聞諸老聃云。」
		Confucius said, 'Formerly, along with Lao Dan, I was assisting at a burial in the village of Xiang, and when we had got to the path, the sun was eclipsed. Lao Dan said to me, "Qiu, let the bier be stopped on the left of the road; and then let us wail and wait till the eclipse pass away. When it is light again, we will proceed." He said that this was the rule. When we had returned and completed the burial, I said to him, "In the progress of a bier there should be no returning. When there is an eclipse of the sun, we do not know whether it will pass away quickly or not, would it not have been better to go on?" Lao Dan said, "When the prince of a state is going to the court of the son of Heaven, he travels while he can see the sun. At sun-down he halts, and presents his offerings (to the spirit of the way). When a Great officer is on a mission, he travels while he can see the sun, and at sun-down he halts. Now a bier does not set forth in the early morning, nor does it rest anywhere at night; but those who travel by star-light are only criminals and those who are hastening to the funeral rites of a parent. When there is an eclipse of the sun, how do we know that we shall not see the stars? And moreover, a superior man, in his performance of rites, will not expose his relatives to the risk of distress or evil." This is what I heard from Lao Dan.'

(From the Chinese Text Project)

 

It is this Lao Dan who has traditionally taken to be the historical Laozi, but there is no proof that this is so.

 

 

Yes, this (my first bolded above) is the meeting I was thinking of. 10,000 thanks!

 

There were a few called Lao Dan; maybe next time flowing hands talks to Laozi, he can ask if that one was him. (-:

 

warm greetings

 

[Bodhicitta]

If one misses the 2017 event, just wait seven years, another total solar event in 8 April 2024.  The shadow runs thru central Mexico, then sweeps NE across Texas, exiting  the US in Maine.

 

https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEgoogle/SEgoogle2001/SE2024Apr08Tgoogle.html

Edited June 24, 2017 by Bodhicitta

[rene]

Almost like the 2017 & 2024 events are scribing a big, slow motion "X" over the States. Wonder where the crossing point is!

[Zhongyongdaoist]

22 minutes ago, WuDao said:

Almost like the 2017 & 2024 events are scribing a big, slow motion "X" over the States. Wonder where the crossing point is!

 

The astrology program that I use, Solar Fire, has a map function that allows me to see all sorts of things, including eclipse paths, I am looking at it now and checking the user manual to see if it is possible to set it up to show two paths at once, but even if it can't a little work in a drawing or paint program can easily do the trick.  I'll see what I can do.

[Brian]

32 minutes ago, WuDao said:

Almost like the 2017 & 2024 events are scribing a big, slow motion "X" over the States. Wonder where the crossing point is!

Looks like South of St. Louis, West of Paducah.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

4 minutes ago, Brian said:

Looks like South of St. Louis, West of Paducah.

 

You beat me to it Brian, but yes, just as an eyeball measure going back and forth between the two maps, unfortunately I can't view both at once it looks like around the southern border of Illinois, eastern Kentucky, northern Alabama.  That is a full U.S. map, but I could zoom in and see more cities and basically get it down to within about 50 miles without too much trouble.  More later.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

OK, First it definitely takes place in southern Illinois, around the three cities Carbondale, Anna and Vienna.  To quote from the notes that I took looking back and forth from the two map paths:

 

Quote

 

2017 comes in from the Northwest between Carbondale and Anna, about ¾ of the way between them and closer to Carbondale. I then goes a little north of Vienna, about 90% of the distance between Carbondale and Vienna

 

2024 comes in from the Southwest and passes a little Northwest of and very close to Anna, Il, continues to the Northeast going between Carbondale and Vienna, about 2/3 of the way between them, but closer to Carbondale.

 

So it looks like the intersection is almost exactly on a line connecting Carbondale and Vienna and about 40% of the distance between them.

 

 

There may be ways I could get it more exact, but that is not bad.

[Brian]

I almost said "near Carbondale" but figured that was too obscure.

[rene]

Thanks much, guys! Most appreciated. (-:

[Bodhicitta]

Not too far from the New Madrid, MO earthquake fault line.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone#/media/File:NMSZBig.gif

 

A little history about the 1811-12 quakes:

 

http://www.new-madrid.mo.us/index.aspx?nid=132

Edited June 25, 2017 by Bodhicitta

[Marblehead]

8 hours ago, Bodhicitta said:

Not too far from the New Madrid, MO earthquake fault line.

 

 

Just two nights ago I watched a documentary that spoke to that.