if you believe in it, it will exist or else nothing really exist?

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

"THAT WHICH IS SO OBVIOUS IS FALSE BECAUSE I WANT TO SOUND SPECIAL"

-EVERY ATHEIST

[Karl]

You are a closed minded fool. Why is there no God? Because you want to be special and you are stubborn!! You have put our foot down, so you cannot possible exist!! Nothing is aware of reading this!! Woo woo, let's dance around and say there is no God for no reason!!

 

Because it's irrational-I am a volitional being in an uncreated eternal universe. There is no room for God, but if you believe there is then that's your business, I won't try and persuade you to the contrary.

[Karl]

Oh yes yes.......the universe is in this case a desolate place with no life. Every piece of matter has no inherent existence. What a sad scene!! Oh wait!! it cannot be sad because no life exists even though you are perceiving now. No life exists to call it sad!! We are all automatons!! Woo woo, let's party like theres no tomorrow!! Oh wait, there is no life to party!!! You've put your foot down, so now you live in an utter paradox!!!

 

There can't possibly be life, could there? Oh no, that would make you sound religious. We wouldn't want that.

I don't see it as desolate in any sense, neither is matter 'non-existent' and the universe a benevolent one. If you have followed my posts you would know that I favour the primacy of existence-concrete reality. I haven't said that no life exists, indeed my own living existence and that of every other living thing is proof enough. If you believe in omniscient, omnipotent God then you believe in determinism-that man is not a volitional creature and therefore in a sense, he would in that case be a kind of automaton.

 

I think you mistake me for a materialist, a subjective mystic, or muscle mystic form of atheism. I can assure you I'm not, neither am I a spiritual mystic.

 

People can be whatever they like in this respect, it's only here where we are asked what our philosophies are that we expand on them. If something I say is interesting, then that's good, same is true of your own philosophy.

[Karl]

"THAT WHICH IS SO OBVIOUS IS FALSE BECAUSE I WANT TO SOUND SPECIAL"

-EVERY ATHEIST

I don't know what that means. A thing is what it is, X is X, existence exists.

[Marblehead]

"THAT WHICH IS SO OBVIOUS IS FALSE BECAUSE I WANT TO SOUND SPECIAL"

-EVERY ATHEIST

Be careful now.  I am an Atheist and you just stepped on my toes.

 

So gods are obvious to you?  Could you explain why this is so and what proof do you have that any gods exist?

[Brian]

Food for thought:

[Marblehead]

I enjoy listening to Michio but on occasions his mind goes beyond what there is any proof for.  Just like in the conclusion of the above video.  But then, part of his job is to imagine the unimaginable so ...

[Andrei]

He is just using a metaphor, don't take it literally. What he wants to say is that if there is ever a God then this God is just pure numbers and mathematics nothing more nothing less.

 

Wuji -> Taiji -> Yin-Yang -> Trigrams -> Hexagrams -> 10000 things  

 

Leibnitz invented the binary numbers from the trigrams and hexagrams of Yi Jing. Now the whole internet and calculations of computers, a whole universe is built only on these binary numbers.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Andrei

[Stosh]

I like Neil, I dont think he'd have said most of that.

[Brian]

LOL

 

Y'all are amusing.

 

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

Be careful now.  I am an Atheist and you just stepped on my toes.

 

So gods are obvious to you?  Could you explain why this is so and what proof do you have that any gods exist?

 

Seriously?

Do you not believe in the Tao? The Tao that gives birth to infinite worlds according to the tao te ching?

No no no, gods are not obvious but God as in LIFE. When I hear someone say there is no God, I hear "there is not life force; we are all just zombies". How can this be, for if it were there would be nothing? If there is nothing, than what is it perceiving the illusion? That is God.

Edited September 15, 2016 by FreeThinker

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

YES, GOD IS A MATHEMATICIAN!!!

[Marblehead]

Okay, this is a worthy post and I will do my best to express my understands (I will leave out my opinions for this one).

Seriously?   You are the main guy on here!!!

 

Yes, I am serious but I don't consider myself the main guy.  That would be the site owner.

 

Do you not believe in the Tao?

 

Yes, I believe in Tao.  But I do not consider the word "Tao" to be a noun but rather a verb.  "Tao" is not a "thing".  It existed prior to there being "things".  Tao is the process of the universe.  An action verb.

 

The Tao that gives birth to infinite worlds according to the tao te ching?

 

Yes.

Tao gave birth to One,

Etc.

 

But this should be understood figuratively, not literally.  Back when that section this was the only way of  explaining new life.  The woman gave birth.

 

No no no, gods are not obvious but God as in LIFE. When I hear someone say there is no God, I hear "there is not life force; we are all just zombies". How can this be, for if it were there would be nothing? If there is nothing, than what is it perceiving the illusion? That is God.

 

So now you have clarified what you previously said.  And I can accept that as a valid understanding that has become a belief.  Personally, the way I refer to what you believe is to use the term "Universal Chi".  This energy is what makes the processes of Tao function.  Therefore, the life force of Chi is what gives life.

 

I can understand you not wanting to become nihilistic.  Very well do I understand.  And I have no problem with anyone referring to this "life force" as God.  But I do object when someone reifies or personalizes Tao. 

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

It is not personal. 

 

In my opinion, you are bending the text. I once spoke to Mormon missionaries when I was Christian and they always bent every word in the Bible to fit what they believe. 

Bible: "There is no God but me; I no no other"

Mormons: "That doesn't mean there aren't other Gods!!! Maybe ours is just stupid"

Bible: "I and my father are one"

Mormons: "He meant that he has a good relationship with his father"

I'm paraphrasing a bit, but you see what I mean. I take the Tao Te Ching literally. 

[Marblehead]

Well, I can do nothing about you thinking I am bending the text.

 

But really. If Tao gave birth to One, who was the father?  We all know that an egg has to be fertilized.

 

No different from a virgin giving birth.  That stuff just doesn't happen in real life.

 

And if you take everything written in the Christian Bible literally your mind will be full of contradictions.

 

All belief system have stories made up in order to make a concept more understandable.  Taoism is no different.

 

And remember, once the concept is grasped the words can be forgotten.  (The story doesn't matter; it is the concept that matters.)

[Karl]

Seriously?

Do you not believe in the Tao? The Tao that gives birth to infinite worlds according to the tao te ching?

No no no, gods are not obvious but God as in LIFE. When I hear someone say there is no God, I hear "there is not life force; we are all just zombies". How can this be, for if it were there would be nothing? If there is nothing, than what is it perceiving the illusion? That is God.

Why not take God and illusion out completely ? You have accepted a spiritual dimension and to say that the spiritual dimension is 'God' in the singular as a means of explaining life leads to infinite regression, because what causes Gods life force ? This is exactly the same issue as the creation story. To say God created the universe is to ask 'and who created God?' If no God were therefore required and the universe needed no creator, then it follows that neither did 'life force'.

 

Why not consider that you are an individual being with a seperate identity that is grasping existence through consciousness. Neither of which required any ultimate creator, because to have any creator results in regression (who created the creator). Then it's all nice and neat. Nature seems inherently very neat which makes sense as we are part of the fashioning of all things as a result of causality within the universe.

 

The quantum scientists don't like that idea, neither do the creationist Mystics that come in various sizes from Christians to Daoists.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Karl

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

I'm sorry for the confusion. I  live in California. Here in California, we all mean consciousness when we say God. Have none of you heard of the work of Paramahansa Yogananda? He came and settled here from India to teach what The Bible is really about.

Surely, anyone taking the Vedas of Hinduism literally would go insane. But ever Hindu knows that they are metaphoric.

 

You both think we are all seperate Gods??? You are both insane. There is only 1 God, not 3 gods or 8 billion.

Edited September 23, 2016 by FreeThinker

[Karl]

I'm sorry for the confusion. I  live in California. Here in California, we all mean consciousness when we say God. Have none of you heard of the work of Paramahansa Yogananda? He came and settled here from India to teach what The Bible is really about.

Surely, anyone taking the Vedas of Hinduism literally would go insane. But ever Hindu knows that they are metaphoric.

 

You both think we are all seperate Gods??? You are both insane. There is only 1 God, not 3 gods or 8 billion.

All seperate consciousnesses ? Yes, of course, not a collective. All Mystics are irrevocably hooked on a path of attempting to nullify the reality that we are all independent volitional consciousnesses. That consciousness has identity, that it is something. Once that premise is accepted then men lose power over men and we move towards a greater civilisation of man. Some of us understand this well enough to attempt to nudge philosophy towards this end. A mans life as an end in itself with the pursuit of happiness his only goal and reason as his absolute moral guide.

 

Anyone who begins with a framework of altruistic sacrifice or duty to anyone or anything should be treated as a dangerous plague from which they should run away. Those that tell you that happiness is the reason for mans existence demand nothing, they don't require men's souls. The first is evil, a gatherer of souls, the second sets souls free and is the good. This isn't new of course. From ancient times men have known the tricks to get their hands around men's souls through guilt and fear, it works just as well today.

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

All seperate consciousnesses ? Yes, of course, not a collective. All Mystics are irrevocably hooked on a path of attempting to nullify the reality that we are all independent volitional consciousnesses. That consciousness has identity, that it is something. Once that premise is accepted then men lose power over men and we move towards a greater civilisation of man. Some of us understand this well enough to attempt to nudge philosophy towards this end. A mans life as an end in itself with the pursuit of happiness his only goal and reason as his absolute moral guide.

 

Anyone who begins with a framework of altruistic sacrifice or duty to anyone or anything should be treated as a dangerous plague from which they should run away. Those that tell you that happiness is the reason for mans existence demand nothing, they don't require men's souls. The first is evil, a gatherer of souls, the second sets souls free and is the good. This isn't new of course. From ancient times men have known the tricks to get their hands around men's souls through guilt and fear, it works just as well today.

 

As Alan Watts would say, the joker has got you all. Anyone who has read the Bhagavad Gita chapter 13 knows that there is only one being, with many masks.

If none of you trust the Gita, whan why trust Lao Tzu? Why not trust all enlightened beings?

[Marblehead]

 

If none of you trust the Gita, whan why trust Lao Tzu? Why not trust all enlightened beings?

Or don't even trust yourself.  Question everything.

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

Oh yeah, let's be like the old man who goes to the park to drink and watch the kids. Sarcasm. Is the earth round or flat? Who in the heck cares

 

I propose that we all rise up to Krishna consciousness, the awareness of little children.

[Marblehead]

Oh yeah, let's be like the old man who goes to the park to drink and watch the kids.

 

 

 

 

[Drifting_Through_Infinity]

Funny.

[noonespecial]

In other words, if you dnt believe in chi/energy, you won't feel it. 

 

I know this to be false. 

[Karl]

As Alan Watts would say, the joker has got you all. Anyone who has read the Bhagavad Gita chapter 13 knows that there is only one being, with many masks.

If none of you trust the Gita, whan why trust Lao Tzu? Why not trust all enlightened beings?

Knowledge isn't something you read, it is something that you can prove.