the effects of psychedelics on the energy body?

[Sunya]

my only experience is with mescaline (cactus) and i can say from experience that there is definetely an effect. when i took mescaline, both times there was definetely an increase in energy and bodily awareness. it was actually the first time i've ever felt chi, even after the trip ended i had an upsurge of energy that lasted for days. now i can feel the energy sober, but i'm wondering if anyone has any experiences with psychedelics and their effect on energy? i'm especially curious about any detrimental effects because i'm thinking of partaking in a cactus journey again and wonder how it will effect my energy body now that i'm progressively building it.

[Cameron]

Seems to expand Shen but deplete Jing.

 

After learning Kunlun I am sure I don't need to "trip" ever again.

 

Cam

 

OH.

 

MIKAELZ.

 

Before you head straight into a disaster Mantra68 has mentioned numerous times not to do mix drugs and Kunlun.

 

Be careful man.

[sheng zhen]

my only experience is with mescaline (cactus) and i can say from experience that there is definetely an effect. when i took mescaline, both times there was definetely an increase in energy and bodily awareness. it was actually the first time i've ever felt chi, even after the trip ended i had an upsurge of energy that lasted for days. now i can feel the energy sober, but i'm wondering if anyone has any experiences with psychedelics and their effect on energy? i'm especially curious about any detrimental effects because i'm thinking of partaking in a cactus journey again and wonder how it will effect my energy body now that i'm progressively building it.

Ive been doing a lot of psychedelics in my time. But when I realized it was damaging my spiritual practice and reality orientation I quit. Ive spent many years of hard work, therapy, cleansing and healing to get back to normal. All the experience you long for in psychedelics you can get by regular practice and meditation. Feeling of oneness, interconnectivity, seeing visions and other beings, auras, energysystems, etc. Ive met many people who have all this naturally without ever doing any drugs. We dont need them unless it is for selfdestructive purposes og fun. Spiritually it dosen bring you much other than damage from my perspective.

[Cameron]

Not to mention Mantra has said in no uncertain terms DO NOT mix Kunlun with drugs.

 

So, if you going to do that please stop doing Kunlun.

[karen]

Experience - yes (it was mandatory for baby boomers )

Interesting experiences - yes.

Anything that furthered real spiritual development - no.

 

These are powerful drugs that impinge on the energy bodies leaivng you with a disturbance there that you don't want. The in-the-moment experience is an attractive one, of course, like other attractions that let you down or accumulate negative effects, and you realize there was no real benefit.

 

The way psychedelic drugs disturb the energy bodies is by bringing in a strong astral influence that's like a foreign invader. Chemically, it's in the alkaloids, but it's the astrality of these plants that make them different from other plants - most plants that we eat have etheric influence not astral (that's why we don't generally eat flowers).

 

So what these plants are doing is they're raising one aspect of consciousness in us, taking us out of ordinary consciousness, which can feel liberating. But it's really not - the visionary experiences are happening TO us - we're not commanding these forces. No one really wants to be controlled by foreign forces, but that's the situation.

 

The consciousness you gain is not your own - there's an increase in the collective consciousness, not individual consciousness, which is why people doing these drugs like to be in communities. You may gain some insights from the experience, but you don't own the knowledge - the gift isn't yours unless you gain it through your own individual effort.

 

The process of digestion is to strip away foreign forces from food. So it's better to eat drugs than to take them any other way, and better to eat them in their unrefined form than refined, but best to leave them alone.

 

And there are always homeopathic forms of those drugs, which can be good for people who feel drawn to them.

 

Take care,

Karen

[Upfromtheashes]

Experience - yes (it was mandatory for baby boomers )

Interesting experiences - yes.

Anything that furthered real spiritual development - no.

 

These are powerful drugs that impinge on the energy bodies leaivng you with a disturbance there that you don't want. The in-the-moment experience is an attractive one, of course, like other attractions that let you down or accumulate negative effects, and you realize there was no real benefit.

 

The way psychedelic drugs disturb the energy bodies is by bringing in a strong astral influence that's like a foreign invader. Chemically, it's in the alkaloids, but it's the astrality of these plants that make them different from other plants - most plants that we eat have etheric influence not astral (that's why we don't generally eat flowers).

 

So what these plants are doing is they're raising one aspect of consciousness in us, taking us out of ordinary consciousness, which can feel liberating. But it's really not - the visionary experiences are happening TO us - we're not commanding these forces. No one really wants to be controlled by foreign forces, but that's the situation.

 

The consciousness you gain is not your own - there's an increase in the collective consciousness, not individual consciousness, which is why people doing these drugs like to be in communities. You may gain some insights from the experience, but you don't own the knowledge - the gift isn't yours unless you gain it through your own individual effort.

 

The process of digestion is to strip away foreign forces from food. So it's better to eat drugs than to take them any other way, and better to eat them in their unrefined form than refined, but best to leave them alone.

 

And there are always homeopathic forms of those drugs, which can be good for people who feel drawn to them.

 

Take care,

Karen

 

Hey Karen you said flowers are astral-

Could this be why large amounts of raw honey combined with large amounts of raw milk gives me a psychdelic/schizophrenic experience-

The Amount of pollen to make maybe a quarter pound of raw honey would be tremendous...

 

Hey Karen you said flowers are astral-

Could this be why large amounts of raw honey combined with large amounts of raw milk gives me a psychdelic/schizophrenic experience-

The Amount of pollen to make maybe a quarter pound of raw honey would be tremendous...

 

Acually to elaborate a bit More - Lately I have been exercising and meditating/yoga a great deal more and eating more raw meat/ raw honey and raw milk -

One thing that happens is that my body starts crackling with electricity -

At night like 10-1 or so is when is seems the strongest

I will drop my shorts down and there will be a crackle -

I can rub my forearm against my couch then when I hold my hand close sparks jump sometimes from as far as two inches away and they are like ropes of lightning

If I touch my light I get a very strong crackling shock- and this cause my speakers to blare from the elecricity across the room ( they seem to blare when there is any type of electrical surge usually when the cooler goes on in the freeze)

 

Anyway It seems intensified and often very soon after eating a high quality raw food or exercising etc -

Unfortunately I also feel like I am losing my mind during this time and just lie on my couch unable to do anything -

Also notice that If I eat lots of sugar like fruits and not a lot of calories and exercise whenever I close my car door I get a shock when I touch the glass but it is a weak diffuse feeling - Different from the others

[Sunya]

thank you karen, you gave me much insight that i was looking for.. and it definetely correlated with my experience, i felt like i had so much knowledge and wisdom but then the next day it was all gone. i think that they can be beneficial in some cases though. for some people all they need is that short glimpse to set them on the road.

 

i believe you convinced me though that i'm beyond that and already am on the road. i don't think i'll partake, but will sit in with my friend and share the experience with him.

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[Sunya]

 

 

Of course if a teacher tells you not to mix it with the practice then you'd better damn well listen.

And lets face it, what is the point if you have found a practice that you believe in with your heart? Why play around when you have a path to walk?

 

 

well i guess it just comes from the desire to experience the 'oneness' that i felt on cactus. i've yet to experience that through meditation but i'm fairly new to the path. i guess its my western mindset of fast results

 

"we want the world and we want it now" jim morrison

[Cameron]

thank you karen, you gave me much insight that i was looking for.. and it definetely correlated with my experience, i felt like i had so much knowledge and wisdom but then the next day it was all gone. i think that they can be beneficial in some cases though. for some people all they need is that short glimpse to set them on the road.

 

i believe you convinced me though that i'm beyond that and already am on the road. i don't think i'll partake, but will sit in with my friend and share the experience with him.

 

 

What are you, like 21-22?

 

I was doing drugs quite a bit at that time.

 

I would have killed to have known at your age what I know now.

 

Don't throw it away man.

 

Just trust me on this one.

 

You could save yourself years bro.

 

Do your practice. Don't do drugs.

 

Nancy Reagan Cam

[karen]

Hi darebak,

 

Someone who can use opium with real mastery over those forces, can do it without harm, but most of us can't. It's a matter of making a sound judgment, not fear.

 

By the same token, being healthy doesn't mean avoiding all challenges all the time - actually we need experiences now and then that give us more of a workout! But we want our workouts to be strengthening not weakening. Everyone has their subjective experience, of course, but the effects of these things can be objectively seen, too.

 

-Karen

[Sunya]

What are you, like 21-22?

 

I was doing drugs quite a bit at that time.

 

I would have killed to have known at your age what I know now.

 

Don't throw it away man.

 

Just trust me on this one.

 

You could save yourself years bro.

 

Do your practice. Don't do drugs.

 

Nancy Reagan Cam

 

 

thanks Nancy,

 

yes i'm almost 22. you've experienced everything and more through meditation I gather?

i'm coming to the conclusion that meditation is the best path, but i guess theres still that part of me that wants to experiment and experience. hard work was never my forte, but i'm sure the reward is worth it from what you're saying.

 

what woul dyou have killed to have known? and by drugs you mean psychedelics right? because thats all that interests me, i gave up pot and was never interested in feel good drugs.

Edited December 2, 2007 by mikaelz

[Cameron]

My take..

 

You can experience all the things through meditation and higher than drugs without all the garbage.

 

What garbage?

 

Mental unbalancing, jing depletion, energy sickness(what Karen said about astral energies invading your system sounds spot on).

 

The Zen teacher John Daido Loori from NY said this about drugs "Marijuana dulls and weakens your mind. Psychadelics plaster your mind against the wall".

 

Not to mention, your exposed to information few if any people in past generations in the west had available to them. Follow what Max says.

 

If you really,really,really want my advice. Wait until you do 100 days and atleast do 1 workshop with Max before doing drugs.

 

If your like me after you learn Red Phoenix that should take care of all of your "getting high" needs.

 

For me it was too much and had to ditch it and just focus on Kunlun. But will get back to it in a year or so when my system can handle the energies.

 

Nancy

[Sunya]

well thank you for the advice, i decided im done for good and will give meditation my full attention, but will still sit in on my friend and join him. maybe being around him will have some kind of effect, plus i'm sure he could use the positive vibe i will give him during his journey.

 

man, i'd love to learn red phoenix, but max won't be in my area for a while most likely (NY,NJ), and the new book won't be out for a while either.. oh well. until that happens i'll most likely be ready for level 2. been doing level 1 for close to a month now.

[Cameron]

Sounds good.

 

Good luck bro.

 

So, where do you live?

 

I grew up in White Plains area, Westchester County NY.

[Sunya]

that's not too far I don't think. i'm at school in north jersey not far from NYC but am from the 'shore' area, town is called monmouth.

 

frankly i'm tired of this cold weather. oh california how i yearn for you, or india. or anywhere warm really

[Cameron]

Come to Arizona.

 

Are you still in school?

 

ASU woman are sexy!

 

Only after 100 days of course.

 

that's not too far I don't think. i'm at school in north jersey not far from NYC but am from the 'shore' area, town is called monmouth.

 

frankly i'm tired of this cold weather. oh california how i yearn for you, or india. or anywhere warm really

 

 

Also, if you can come up with enough money for a ticket next month I can let you stay at my place and you can probably talk to Mantra about getting a deal on the workshop because you are so young.

 

Cam

[Sunya]

thank you for the invite

 

i only see seminars in hawaii and LA coming up. honestly i won't be able to afford it with the cost of plane tickets and seminar. i'm a full time student with no job. i'm spending my holiday money on a weekend retreat wher ei'll receive shaktipat transmission. same cost as kunlun seminar except i don't have to fly.

 

if i hear about a seminar in my area i'll figure out a way to pay but if Max doesn't come around here by the summer i'll take you up on that if theres a seminar in your area. i hope chris does offer some sort of student discount that would definitely make me more inclined to go

 

i am still in school, but would be willing to miss a day or two of classes for this if the opportunity comes up.

Edited December 2, 2007 by mikaelz

[Cameron]

No problem.

 

From what I heard Max will be coming back to Phoenix late January. So if you change your mind or are able to come it's still like 2 months away.

[jjwalters]

......the effects of psychedelics on the energy body?........

 

In the sixties I dropped a lot of acid/mescaline. At the time I considered it a mind opening experience and although I have to say the drugs placed me on an entirely different path from the one I had been on, the path itself was an illusion of immense proportions.

 

Some really great friends went off the deep end...others just wasted a whole lot of time, but nearly everyone I associated with in 71 Portland had by then given it up. Now pot is another story, (but that's not in your question)

 

My thought is that although seemingly a short cut to heaven......psychedelics often offer a one way ticket to the dead end called hell..................can't escape the learning curve my friend..........

[VeeCee]

And another 2 cents - my xH did a lot of acid in college and is now having a lot of problems with depression/anxiety. He firmly believes the drugs messed up his body chemistry.

[Wayfarer64]

I was just speaking yesterday with a woman who was introduced to mescaline ( the raw cactus) as an 11 year old - by her grandmother as part of a "coming of age" ritual attended by tribal elders I was not aware of that ritual until yesterday as being expected for females as well as males-(which i knew about)...

 

Vision quests and holy connections are made with the help of natural psychotropics in many cultures, and I do not think I can dismiss them.

 

I have also done many psychotropic drugs as a path to higher consciousness and as an aid to "partying" as well....

 

I have seen much harm and much good come from experimentations, so it is certainly not for all and any of us. But for some it may be a real eye opener to higher realms of being and seeing. Precautions and guidence are critical and the use of powerful psychotropics should be done with serious intent- not for kicks...

Edited December 2, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[ToP-fan]

I did a lot of acid, mescaline and shrooms in the 70's......................Had many paranormal experiences, especially on acid.

At the time, I knew from doing it that there was much more to what we call "reality" than what is perceived with our 5 senses................. Seeing energy fields, having out of body episodes, telepathy and even encountering a ufo...... happened with no safety net.

 

I do consider these experiences life changing and valuable but If I was in my early 20's right now and was given the choice to do it over..........I would not.

 

For me, the negatives have outweighed the positive...............One of the major negatives for me is that it opened me up to things that I can't shut off and has taken the last 30 years to balance out..........................While being empathic can be a good thing, I am constantly picking up stuff from people, the environment etc and it can be a real pain in the ass.

 

Now.........Every day is an adventure in grounding oneself and I'm grateful we have a website such as this so we can share and discuss all the topics that come up.

 

 

" I don't know karate.........but I do know crazy"

 

James Brown

[Eric23]

 

ASU woman are sexy!

 

 

As a life long Sun Devil I can attest that there is no shortage of sexy women at ASU (even married one)! As a matter of fact, I got a chance to see many of them in person at the big game last night

 

As for the topic at hand, I must be one of the very few baby boomers who managed to not experiment with drugs, not even pot. There is part of me that regrets not having a psychidelic experience. On the other hand, not having to deal with lingering side effects has it's benefits. I have witnessed more than a few train wrecks caused by the feel good variety of drugs. Have to agree with the overall opinion that one is best served by finding their bliss within themselves.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Eric23

[jjwalters]

I am constantly picking up stuff from people, the environment etc and it can be a real pain in the ass.

 

 

Me too.........especially in todays frantic "me" world.

 

I can say that the days I spent in Portland mired in the drug culture were some of the best of my life though...........I miss the comradary of those days.