what is the point of existence?

[Marblehead]

You don't need to answer to me MH.

I know that Karl.  But how many other people read your post?  That's what I was responding to.  Not to you specifically but to the entire world in general.

 

I am proud of having fairly earned every fucking thing I have ever had in this life.  Yes, I started paying into Social Security when I was eleven years old.  Bought my first car and insurance when I was 15 1/2 years old with money I honestly earned working in a bowling alley.

[noonespecial]

To learn and add to 'THE' experience.

[Nungali]

Oh dear Jeff. A regression to a totally dependent childhood of tantrums and tears does not appeal at all. You want to get a pack of diapers and a pacifier, then go ahead-if you get old enough and sufficiently senile you may have a second chance at your paradise. I prefer full power reasoning and the volitional option of reasoned judgement. Existence-reason = hell and please stick a needle full of poison in me before I become that way.

 

Going with the flow is total abdication, it is evasion and moral cowardice of the worst kind. If you feel so badly then whatever you are practising is leading you further into hell, that is your decision of course, I can only look on perplexed and slightly saddened at the incapacity. It is a place I do not ever wish to go either voluntarily, nor by force.

 

 

 

  " NO!   Swim across the current , not against it  ...... NO! stop fighting it ..... swim with it until you get out of the drag then swim across until you are out of the current ,  NO -  you will wear your self out  .... Karl ... you cant fight the power of the ocean  ....   Karl !  come back  ......   Kaaarrrl !   

 

Oh crap ! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

" What the hell was that about ?  Are you crazy ! "

 

 

"  I didnt want to show evasion and moral cowardice  of the worst kind ." 

[Nungali]

We 'want' from the moment we come out of the womb, we just can't make sufficient sense of the world and our bodies are too weak for us to survive independently. You must of missed the crying, screaming and mewling of an infant.

 

Like a child he said ... not  a new born baby .   Why do you always instantly twist things to the most silly scenario and then go about attacking it !  ?

 

The funny thing is Karl .... when I hear this statement of being like a child , for some reason, I get flash backs of the happy parts and wonder and delight of my  childhood. That you instantly react the way you do ( not respond, but react, and that is triggered by emotional response , and that is triggered by whatvere happens to you when you read a  certain type of post )  is quiet telling .

 

Iiving spontaneously ? LOL -surely you don't believe that to be true. You told me you wait for your army pension. You live in a nice house surrounded by storm fencing, have a solar cell powered vehicle and fish ponds. This is you living spontaneously is it ? ;-)

 

I dont even get where this one is coming from, it makes little sense ... oh wait !  Thats right , I have to remember you are going  to interpret what Marbles said , twist it a bit, put your own definition on it and then go on the attack   - against your own definition

 

  

[liminal_luke]

In a world drowning in moral relativism and airy-fairy go-with-the-flow philosophical mush, Karl remained to his values to the very end.  

Edited September 24, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

I know that Karl.  But how many other people read your post?  That's what I was responding to.  Not to you specifically but to the entire world in general.

 

I am proud of having fairly earned every fucking thing I have ever had in this life.  Yes, I started paying into Social Security when I was eleven years old.  Bought my first car and insurance when I was 15 1/2 years old with money I honestly earned working in a bowling alley.

 

OH!   Gosh, after reading what Karl said about you , I had not realized !  You actually sound like a half decent chap after all  .   ...    

[Nungali]

In a world drowning in moral relativism and airy-fairy go-with-the-flow philosophical mush, Karl remained to his values to the very end.  

 

 

[thelerner]

Not for me. I don't require to re-experience childhood. I don't 'play' and most of what I've seen of adult play seems less fun than people make it out to be. I don't need to forget the adult world as I enjoy it and I have no idea why one needs to remain young-I'd be happy if my body stayed young and fit, but pretending to be a child isn't going to have any effect on the passage of time. I'd rather study or work/perform a skill than go off to mindless play, it holds zero attraction for me. I think you are kidding yourself-literally.

Here we get into the main problem.  The assumption that what we say, what we like, must automatically 'work' for you or it is wrong.   Things we discuss are not always aimed at you. 

 

Playing and dancing exercise the body, bring joy to the spirit and freshen the mind.  Keeping one from falling into crotchety old man syndrome.  You know.. tons of negativity, arguing all the time..

 

While its good to be able to act your age, its also important to have access to all your ages.  The effortless sleep of a baby, playfulness of the child, the ambition, hope and drive of the young man, the steadiness of the adult, the wisdom of the elder.   Not letting myself calcify mentally or spiritually. 

[dawei]

Draw a really big circle on a piece of paper..  then hold a pencil above, maybe an arm's-length... then let go of the pencil.

See where it hits the paper?

 

The circle is infinity (excuse the boundary... please)... the dot marked by the pencil is you...   that is the "point" your asking about in the end, right ?   Cuz without you.... the topic would not exist

[Kar3n]

[Karl]

Just listen... not judge or try to discern... Quiet the mind and just listen...

Listen without listening LOL 'to make deaf the ears so they may hear'

 

It's important to know that quieting the mind is not silencing the mind. It is to see what you haven't seen of yourself, to see the many crack, splits and mirrors within the self due to poor integration. The task is to put humpty back together, not to ignore him.

[Karl]

Here we get into the main problem.  The assumption that what we say, what we like, must automatically 'work' for you or it is wrong.   Things we discuss are not always aimed at you. 

 

Playing and dancing exercise the body, bring joy to the spirit and freshen the mind.  Keeping one from falling into crotchety old man syndrome.  You know.. tons of negativity, arguing all the time..

 

While its good to be able to act your age, its also important to have access to all your ages.  The effortless sleep of a baby, playfulness of the child, the ambition, hope and drive of the young man, the steadiness of the adult, the wisdom of the elder.   Not letting myself calcify mentally or spiritually.

 

Sounds like you calcified already if you wish to remain as you were previously. Crotchety old man is just fine by me, but then I continue to expand consciously. If you like dancing (a skill) then practice that. I like walking, climbing, mountainbiking and motorcycling-none of which I undertake aimlessly.

[Karl]

I know that Karl.  But how many other people read your post?  That's what I was responding to.  Not to you specifically but to the entire world in general.

 

I am proud of having fairly earned every fucking thing I have ever had in this life.  Yes, I started paying into Social Security when I was eleven years old.  Bought my first car and insurance when I was 15 1/2 years old with money I honestly earned working in a bowling alley.

I did not accuse you of anything except the lie that you are spontaneous. As if spontaneity was a virtue. It isn't and I'm glad you aren't. :-)

[Nungali]

Sounds like you are really unevolved old and grumpy  ... not like me ... I am really enlightened   and still expanding   ....

 

 

and the more I can expand .... the more hot air I can blow out   

[Nungali]

Oh yeah .... I am like   ... totally spontaneous  too   ! 

[Marblehead]

It's important to know that quieting the mind is not silencing the mind. It is to see what you haven't seen of yourself, to see the many crack, splits and mirrors within the self due to poor integration. The task is to put humpty back together, not to ignore him.

I call this "reflection".  In Taoist philosophy it is the mirror.

 

If we come to peace with the reflection then thoughts will abide.  Then it is possible to become "empty-minded" - a silent mind.

[Marblehead]

I did not accuse you of anything except the lie that you are spontaneous. As if spontaneity was a virtue. It isn't and I'm glad you aren't. :-)

You just fucked up again Karl.  I did not lie!  I do not lie.  I also pride myself on my honesty.

 

I pride myself on being able to live spontaneously.

 

My personal philosophy has always been to do the work first then the mind is free to live spontaneously.

 

Perhaps you have never experienced this and therefore you have no understanding of what I am talking about.

 

But then, if you have no idea what I am talking about you should not have injected your misinformed opinion.

 

So you go ahead on and talk about things you have never experienced but feel certain that if Marblehead is referred to you will get a response.

 

But then, if you say something positive you well get praise as well.  I'm just that way.

[Marblehead]

Oh yeah .... I am like   ... totally spontaneous  too   ! 

I can actually see a lot of that within you.  (But like me, maybe not totally.)

[blue eyed snake]

The fish pond?  Sure, that takes time but I am gaining pleasure from it even when I have to do a little work on it, like right now.  I sometimes need to get in the water and mess with the fish.  We play chase.  The minnows nibble the dead skin off my feet.  And when the weather is nice I go out there and mentally convert the pond area into a sanctuary.

 

Old man finding the lotus while chasing fish      

 

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXAPrb24J_hovkEpbiS3f_WJHv3oWtSr9yIBQzV7zq9qQrj1vnpHWBuePi

 

( picture may not be posted here...so click the link)

[blue eyed snake]

Yeah, it kind of figures.  Even notice how hard it is to get a handle on who someone really is from their handle? A lot of people take a kind of wizard-of-oz approach to name-picking, choosing a moniker that sounds like it came straight out of the Tao de Ching -- you know, something super esoteric and advanced.  Take, for instance, Liminal- Luke.  You gotta watch out for that one  Who does he think he is, a Skywalker or something?

 

Fortunately, it also works the other way.  Some of the kindest bums call themselves snakes; some of the smartest, marbleheads.  I´ll never understand it. 

 

thank you ( blushes...)  ,

as for your nickname, i once looked up the meaning of liminal...

 

but this is my visual association 

 

[Marblehead]

Old man finding the lotus while chasing fish      

 

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXAPrb24J_hovkEpbiS3f_WJHv3oWtSr9yIBQzV7zq9qQrj1vnpHWBuePi

 

( picture may not be posted here...so click the link)

My pond's aren't that grand.  (Money and location) 

[Marblehead]

A few years ago I was watching AFV (America's Favorite Videos) and they had a clip of a graduation ceremony of young kids graduating to the next grade.

 

The kids were being asked what the wanted to be when they grew up.

 

This one boy walked up to the mike and was asked that question.

 

He responded:  "I don't ever want to grow up."

[Karl]

 

My personal philosophy has always been to do the work first then the mind is free to live spontaneously.

 

 

Caveats eh ;-) first be unspontaneous (do the work) then be spontaneous.

 

There are times when we can be spontaneous but only after we have had the experience first. Sex is a good example where it is very difficult not to be spontaneous, another would be the automatic functions of choosing beef over lamb, or Sun over shade.

[blue eyed snake]

I was a nerdy, worrywort of a little boy, so I don´t have a big desire to re-experience childhood either.  But I get what people mean when they talk glowingly about childlikeness.  I think it means the relief you feel in your body when everything just lets go.

 

I do not want to repeat my childhood at all...it was crap as childhoods go.

 

But i still remember the moment that I was off on my own, whether building a hut in the woods, playing indians and cowboys with the boys, building a sandcastle, digging a big hole for whatever reason, reading lucky luke 

 

I could become totally one with that activity, no thoughts of what was ( or what will come, not hearing my mum calling when I was absorbed by my activity)

 

as a grownup that sometimes happened when i was gardening, that same quality of being totally absorbed by the activity at hand.

 

i think real artists ( whether I like their work is irrelevant here)  have that quality.

 

In more analytical terms i think you could say that children still have reasonably optimal functioning dopaminergic and serotonergic systems.

 

---

 

regarding the newborn baby that came along in one of these posts.

 

when  a newborn is 'whining' it wants food/drink and affection, happily these three can be found at one source and in one instance, their mom. Further they want their little bodies to be warm and dry and without pain. well, to me it seems that is all a grownup should want too, when you have that you have a strong base, then you can find whether you become more happy from gardening, or painting, or music, or building etc.

[Apech]

Caveats eh ;-) first be unspontaneous (do the work) then be spontaneous.

 

There are times when we can be spontaneous but only after we have had the experience first. Sex is a good example where it is very difficult not to be spontaneous, another would be the automatic functions of choosing beef over lamb, or Sun over shade.

 

Karl, did you just put the word 'sex' in that post so I would read it?  And what is automatic about choosing beef over lamb?  I'm sure there's plenty of sheep that would be pleased by that preference.  And Sun has a capital letter and so is elevated to a proper noun while shade remains ... well, in the shade.  As I know you live in England and the visible appearance of our nearest star is such a rare event I can well understand why it should have a capital letter.  But perhaps subconsciously you were making the link between light and intelligence and shadow and ignorance?