what is the point of existence?

[Marblehead]

Caveats eh ;-) first be unspontaneous (do the work) then be spontaneous.

 

There are times when we can be spontaneous but only after we have had the experience first. Sex is a good example where it is very difficult not to be spontaneous, another would be the automatic functions of choosing beef over lamb, or Sun over shade.

That's good Karl.  Close but no cigar yet.  Ah!, yes, that first experience.  It requires throwing everything to the winds and doing whatever one is inspired to do.

 

During the years when I was single, when I went on a vacation I would have my maps and I would start in the direction I wanted to go.  As soon as I knew I was headed in the right direction I would put the map in the glove box and just follow my inspirations.  Saw some really neat places I never would have seen otherwise.  Sure, I got lost; well, that is, I had no freakin' idea where is was.  But that didn't matter.  It was always fun stopping and asking people where I was and how could I get to wherever.

[Karl]

That's good Karl. Close but no cigar yet. Ah!, yes, that first experience. It requires throwing everything to the winds and doing whatever one is inspired to do.

 

During the years when I was single, when I went on a vacation I would have my maps and I would start in the direction I wanted to go. As soon as I knew I was headed in the right direction I would put the map in the glove box and just follow my inspirations. Saw some really neat places I never would have seen otherwise. Sure, I got lost; well, that is, I had no freakin' idea where is was. But that didn't matter. It was always fun stopping and asking people where I was and how could I get to wherever.

Yes, but then there are roads, petrol stations, villages, shops and hotels. You knew that when you put your maps away. Your experience has taught you that you can be spontaneous in that way. Just as you know how the car responds to certain inputs such that you do not consciously consider every movement of the wheel, change of gear, or press of brake- but note that you do not neglect the instruments, particularly the fuel gauge. There is no point at which you can spontaneously neglect the fuel level and not eventually discover yourself broken down miles from anywhere. Neither can you spontaneously twist the wheel this way and that way if you want to remain on the road. You cannot neglect to brake and act like a blindfolded man trying to pin 'the tail on the donkey'. You must take note of road signs, the speedometer if you wish not to be prosecuted for speeding. You cannot go faster than a line of vehicles that you are forced to follow, nor to carry straight on when the road ends.

 

I suspect you would not practice your spontaneous driving activity in Afghanistan, Libya or Syria. Here it would be necessary to avoid certain places and certain people unless keen on being captures, ransomed or killed.

 

It seems to me that your 'spontaneous' is calculated risk built on past experience.

 

Of course I know all that anyway, for the sake of civilised discussion I'm softening the approach, but seriously, you are kidding yourself. Taking a few well calculated risks built on past experience and the capacity to cope isn't very spontaneous. True spontaneity is a precursor to suicidal behaviour. Grabbing a pack of jelly babies and sticking them in the shopping basket because you fancy some sweets but they aren't on your list isn't really the act of a whim worshipper. Try downing a bottle of bleach or driving your car at 70mph down the wrong lane of the interstate. Throw yourself of a bridge, or lick the conductors of a 1100kv transformer.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

Yes, but then there are roads, petrol stations, villages, shops and hotels. You knew that when you put your maps away. Your experience has taught you that you can be spontaneous in that way. Just as you know how the car responds to certain inputs such that you do not consciously consider every movement of the wheel, change of gear, or press of brake- but note that you do not neglect the instruments, particularly the fuel gauge. There is no point at which you can spontaneously neglect the fuel level and not eventually discover yourself broken down miles from anywhere. Neither can you spontaneously twist the wheel this way and that way if you want to remain on the road. You cannot neglect to brake and act like a blindfolded man trying to pin 'the tail on the donkey'. You must take note of road signs, the speedometer if you wish not to be prosecuted for speeding. You cannot go faster than a line of vehicles that you are forced to follow, nor to carry straight on when the road ends.

 

I suspect you would not practice your spontaneous driving activity in Afghanistan, Libya or Syria. Here it would be necessary to avoid certain places and certain people unless keen on being captures, ransomed or killed.

 

You forgot the oil and water.

[Karl]

You forgot the oil and water.

Lubricant and coolant you mean :-) I only use fully synthetic lubricant and a special mixture of glycol and denatured water.

[Karl]

Karl, did you just put the word 'sex' in that post so I would read it?  And what is automatic about choosing beef over lamb?  I'm sure there's plenty of sheep that would be pleased by that preference.  And Sun has a capital letter and so is elevated to a proper noun while shade remains ... well, in the shade.  As I know you live in England and the visible appearance of our nearest star is such a rare event I can well understand why it should have a capital letter.  But perhaps subconsciously you were making the link between light and intelligence and shadow and ignorance?

Yes. You know from experience what you prefer. I capitalise many things as a result of my communist education.

[Apech]

Lubricant and coolant you mean :-) I only use fully synthetic lubricant and a special mixture of glycol and denatured water.

 

Distilled water I think you mean.

[Karl]

Distilled water I think you mean.

We can't buy distilled water, only denatured. Not sure why that is ? Some times it's labelled de-ionised to confuse things further.

[Apech]

We can't buy distilled water, only denatured. Not sure why that is ? Some times it's labelled de-ionised to confuse things further.

 

Oh.  Denatured usually means that the molecular chains (such as in proteins) have been broken down.  So not sure what that means in terms of water.

[Karl]

Oh. Denatured usually means that the molecular chains (such as in proteins) have been broken down. So not sure what that means in terms of water.

I think it's deionised water, but got confused with denatured alcohol. In recent years I've become quite concerned about this labelling and tend to buy premixed coolant in preference.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

I think it's deionised water, but got confused with denatured alcohol. In recent years I've become quite concerned about this labelling and tend to buy premixed coolant in preference.

 

 

Ah ok.  You can't be too careful.  I always used to find that when I changed coolant leaks appeared everywhere.

[Marblehead]

Yes, but then there are roads, petrol stations, villages, shops and hotels. You knew that when you put your maps away. Your experience has taught you that you can be spontaneous in that way. Just as you know how the car responds to certain inputs such that you do not consciously consider every movement of the wheel, change of gear, or press of brake- but note that you do not neglect the instruments, particularly the fuel gauge. There is no point at which you can spontaneously neglect the fuel level and not eventually discover yourself broken down miles from anywhere. Neither can you spontaneously twist the wheel this way and that way if you want to remain on the road. You cannot neglect to brake and act like a blindfolded man trying to pin 'the tail on the donkey'. You must take note of road signs, the speedometer if you wish not to be prosecuted for speeding. You cannot go faster than a line of vehicles that you are forced to follow, nor to carry straight on when the road ends.

 

Here you are talking about being irresponsible, not about living spontaneously.

 

I suspect you would not practice your spontaneous driving activity in Afghanistan, Libya or Syria. Here it would be necessary to avoid certain places and certain people unless keen on being captures, ransomed or killed.

 

As I responded to a former Black Panther friend I once had but he has moved away when he ask me where I go when I go on the road for vacation:  Wherever the fuck I want to.  I am a white adult male.

 

It seems to me that your 'spontaneous' is calculated risk built on past experience.

 

Although it is never calculated, you are pretty close to a truth here.

 

Of course I know all that anyway, for the sake of civilised discussion I'm softening the approach, but seriously, you are kidding yourself. Taking a few well calculated risks built on past experience and the capacity to cope isn't very spontaneous. True spontaneity is a precursor to suicidal behaviour. Grabbing a pack of jelly babies and sticking them in the shopping basket because you fancy some sweets but they aren't on your list isn't really the act of a whim worshipper. Try downing a bottle of bleach or driving your car at 70mph down the wrong lane of the interstate. Throw yourself of a bridge, or lick the conductors of a 1100kv transformer.

 

Yeah, you got a little emotional there earlier.  Bad example for one who relies on reason.

 

Again, drop the "calculated".  That concept does not apply.  Being conscious of what I am doing?  Yes.  Absolutely.

 

Don't forget, there is a requirement for a little bit of wisdom if one is to live spontaneously.

 

I have driven at 138 MPH on the Italian Autostrata.  A Maserati was about to pass me in another lane and I just wanted to see how long it would take before he was able to pass me.  We got up to 135 and he backed off.  He could have easily passed me.  The 138 was my top end.

 

I'm not going to talk about energy with you.

[Marblehead]

Lubricant and coolant you mean :-) I only use fully synthetic lubricant and a special mixture of glycol and denatured water.

The denatured water isn't all that good for you but it is good for adding to lead-acid batteries,

[Karl]

It's got to be calculated, it isn't whim. I spent my life doing dangerous sports which had a fairly good likelihood of death. Most of the caving was done using SRT (single rope technique) and the reliance on bolting, ropes, rig and equipment is paramount. We also had to take into account past/current/future weather. We did not of these things on a calculator with wads of paper attempting to calculate the safety angle. We simply ensured our equipment was regularly inspected/replaced/maintained; that we were well aquainted with the rigging and the state of the bolt sleeves in order not to chaff the rope, nor over torque the bolts. We knew the weather over the previous few days, we had signals of high underground water levels and potential flooding by gauging river/Spring flows. We knew the day's weather forecast. We knew if the ground had been baked hard indicating flash floods.

 

We did the cave and we're always safe, but we knew of reckless people that ignored the safety aspect and got creamed, drowned, or needed to be rescued. We were in no way over cautious, but we knew the limits, experience had allowed us to make an instant calculation. Sometimes we would drive over to the dales and decide to abandon the trip.

[Marblehead]

I agree with you regarding caving.  I have been in numerous caves but they were always guided tours.  I have seen numerous documentaries regarding free caving and for a fact doing that should not be something done spontaneously.  Here your "calculated" dearly applies.

 

That returns me back to the word "wisdom".

[Karl]

I agree with you regarding caving.  I have been in numerous caves but they were always guided tours.  I have seen numerous documentaries regarding free caving and for a fact doing that should not be something done spontaneously.  Here your "calculated" dearly applies.

 

That returns me back to the word "wisdom".

It applies more or less everywhere. I think sex is a good example of the most spontaneous of acts, primarily there is no risk of death, nor serious injury, but the act itself might not be appreciated by the partner after the event.

 

Going back to your road journeys, you don't get in the vehicle without some knowledge of its road worthiness, nor your skill as a driver. These things don't guarantee safety. Everytime we get behind the wheel there is an increased chance of death or injury, but we calculate it's still a sufficiently low probability to make the small risk worth it. Contrast that with wing suit flying with a paraglider, or cave diving. The risk is proportionately a lot higher, but people still do those sports.

 

Wisdom is accumulated knowledge. Knowledge is the facts of reality.

 

I think it's more interesting to consider whim, or wishes. This is knowledge not connected with the facts of reality. It is to do anything regardless of consequence.

[Marblehead]

I think we are in enough of an agreement to discontinue the spontaneous concept.

 

Ah!, sex.  The good old days.  Just a memory now.

 

I don't do whims.  I haven't had a wish in a very long time except for those directed toward others.  (My wishes for the best.)

 

And I agree with you, wisdom is gained through knowledge (and experiences).

[Karl]

I think we are in enough of an agreement to discontinue the spontaneous concept.

 

Ah!, sex.  The good old days.  Just a memory now.

 

I don't do whims.  I haven't had a wish in a very long time except for those directed toward others.  (My wishes for the best.)

 

And I agree with you, wisdom is gained through knowledge (and experiences).

:-)

[Nungali]

A few years ago I was watching AFV (America's Favorite Videos) and they had a clip of a graduation ceremony of young kids graduating to the next grade.

 

The kids were being asked what the wanted to be when they grew up.

 

This one boy walked up to the mike and was asked that question.

 

He responded:  "I don't ever want to grow up."

 

I'd support that .    My friends daughter decided she was gong to be lion.  So she just went ahead early with it.  he kept harassing her about .... get off all fours and walk like a proper girl,  stop answering me with a roar !    

 

 I didnt mind, I would give her a drink in a bowl on the floor and she would lap it up.    She grew out of it after a couple of months .... I thought she would, why hassle her ? 

[silent thunder]

I'm not interested in childish...

but I readily cultivate childlike.

[Nungali]

That's good Karl.  Close but no cigar yet.  Ah!, yes, that first experience.  It requires throwing everything to the winds and doing whatever one is inspired to do.

 

During the years when I was single, when I went on a vacation I would have my maps and I would start in the direction I wanted to go.  As soon as I knew I was headed in the right direction I would put the map in the glove box and just follow my inspirations.  Saw some really neat places I never would have seen otherwise.  Sure, I got lost; well, that is, I had no freakin' idea where is was.  But that didn't matter.  It was always fun stopping and asking people where I was and how could I get to wherever.

 

Thats my style .... and the places I have ended up !    I was totally spontaneous one day ... man was that an effort !  

 

The constant watchfulness required to not slip back out of spontaneousness !    The end results were remarkable ! 

[Marblehead]

Thanks for the chuckle.

[Nungali]

Yes, but then there are roads, petrol stations, villages, shops and hotels. You knew that when you put your maps away. Your experience has taught you that you can be spontaneous in that way. Just as you know how the car responds to certain inputs such that you do not consciously consider every movement of the wheel, change of gear, or press of brake- but note that you do not neglect the instruments, particularly the fuel gauge. There is no point at which you can spontaneously neglect the fuel level and not eventually discover yourself broken down miles from anywhere. Neither can you spontaneously twist the wheel this way and that way if you want to remain on the road. You cannot neglect to brake and act like a blindfolded man trying to pin 'the tail on the donkey'. You must take note of road signs, the speedometer if you wish not to be prosecuted for speeding. You cannot go faster than a line of vehicles that you are forced to follow, nor to carry straight on when the road ends.

 

I suspect you would not practice your spontaneous driving activity in Afghanistan, Libya or Syria. Here it would be necessary to avoid certain places and certain people unless keen on being captures, ransomed or killed.

 

It seems to me that your 'spontaneous' is calculated risk built on past experience.

 

Of course I know all that anyway, for the sake of civilised discussion I'm softening the approach, but seriously, you are kidding yourself. Taking a few well calculated risks built on past experience and the capacity to cope isn't very spontaneous. True spontaneity is a precursor to suicidal behaviour. Grabbing a pack of jelly babies and sticking them in the shopping basket because you fancy some sweets but they aren't on your list isn't really the act of a whim worshipper. Try downing a bottle of bleach or driving your car at 70mph down the wrong lane of the interstate. Throw yourself of a bridge, or lick the conductors of a 1100kv transformer.

 

 

Good Lord Karl !  

 

have you ever heard of this thing called  'relative'  .... I would really love to know what motivates you to turn everything to absolutes and then take up a counter position against the absolutes that you created yourself . 

 

I for one, know  what Marblehead means .    I believe this has now become compulsive for you , and you really cant help but respond within the narrow parameters of your 'safe ''    ' wheel ruts ' . 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Nungali

[Nungali]

You forgot the oil and water.

 

 

and you just spontaneously remembered it  !     

[Nungali]

Lubricant and coolant you mean :-) I only use fully synthetic lubricant and a special mixture of glycol and denatured water.

 

 

I bet you love that de-natured water      

 

Good old sensible  plain water ... with the nature removed       ......    

 

Now there is a conundrum for the objectivist !      

[Nungali]

Ah ok.  You can't be too careful.  I always used to find that when I changed    .......    coolant leaks appeared everywhere.

 

 

Adult diapers are good for that