what is the point of existence?

[roger]

what is the reason we exist in life ? if spirit exists.. then why would a spirit put itself in a box, limited reality to experience it and try to realize itself ? is it game ? if it is for fun or game... boredom doesn't exist.

 

If other realms/dimensions exists... then why do they? what the whole point of all of this? what the point of tao? ... to learn? learn what ? and what would this knowledge really help us ? and if reincarnation exists... why everytime u have to learn the same stuff ? or even... why do we have to learn stuff that as a spirit we are whole, why to box ourselves and try to rediscover ourselves ?

 

If you have an answer, how much are sure of it? 

 

Shad282,

 

The way I see it is that All That Is (or God if you prefer) wants to fully experience love, joy, peace, success, happiness, forgiveness.....all good things.

 

It wants total spiritual experience.

 

Without sickness, there couldn't be any such thing as healing; without anger, there'd be no such thing as forgiveness; without ignorance, there wouldn't be learning. Without ALL possible experiences, All That Is couldn't fully experience all good things.

 

Therefore all possibilities exist, so the Self can have total experience of love, truth, and all good things.

 

I feel pretty strongly about this.

[Brian]

The point of 'good' music is that one judges it to be so on a number of criteria if one is sufficiently discriminating. The music therefore has a value, we are not merely 'just listening' but 'properly listening' and continuing that judgement.

 

Yet what are we judging ? Music is an abstract made concrete. It is like the words of a good book, or the beautiful lines of a motor car. Our senses do not pick up simple vibrations from which we grin innately, not at all, the crafting of the work resonates with our own internal values. The craftsman exhibits something more than talent, they communicate their abstract values to us in a concrete form. As we read the book, look at the art, see the car, or listen to the music then these values resonate with our own. This is why art is so individual.

 

Unfortunately we are losing this critical discrimination. We are told that unmade beds, piles of bricks and dead horses are art; that any buzzes, tweets and random repetive noises are music. People now depend on media reviews to tell them what art is good, what food to eat and what to buy. If a magazine article tells them an old master is stuffy old history and a shapeless blob of colour is a sublime work of genius they are moved to accept it as truth.

[Brian]

Good Lord Karl !  

 

have you ever heard of this thing called  'relative'  .... I would really love to know what motivates you to turn everything to absolutes and then take up a counter position against the absolutes that you created yourself . 

 

I for one, know  what Marblehead means .    I believe this has now become compulsive for you , and you really cant help but respond within the narrow parameters of your 'safe ''    ' wheel ruts ' . 

He's practicing...

[roger]

The point of 'good' music is that one judges it to be so on a number of criteria if one is sufficiently discriminating. The music therefore has a value, we are not merely 'just listening' but 'properly listening' and continuing that judgement.

 

Yet what are we judging ? Music is an abstract made concrete. It is like the words of a good book, or the beautiful lines of a motor car. Our senses do not pick up simple vibrations from which we grin innately, not at all, the crafting of the work resonates with our own internal values. The craftsman exhibits something more than talent, they communicate their abstract values to us in a concrete form. As we read the book, look at the art, see the car, or listen to the music then these values resonate with our own. This is why art is so individual.

 

Unfortunately we are losing this critical discrimination. We are told that unmade beds, piles of bricks and dead horses are art; that any buzzes, tweets and random repetive noises are music. People now depend on media reviews to tell them what art is good, what food to eat and what to buy. If a magazine article tells them an old master is stuffy old history and a shapeless blob of colour is a sublime work of genius they are moved to accept it as truth.

 

Very good point imo.

 

What the listener to music is actually appreciating is the divine truth, love, innocence, and ultimate reality that the music represents for them.

 

The reason FORM appeals to people is because it can be a manifestation of CONTENT, which is God, love, reality.

[liminal_luke]

The point of 'good' music is that one judges it to be so on a number of criteria if one is sufficiently discriminating. 

 

 

 

Analytical knowledge of music can contribute to enjoyment, it´s true.  But it can also be taken too far.  The college I went to also had a music conservatory.  Some of the conservatory students complained that their knowledge of music actually got in the way of pleasurable listening; they were so used to analyzing sounds in their heads that they couldn´t turn it off.

 

Arts education can enrich us up to a point, but there´s still a time when you just want to kick back with a beer and a favorite CD, a time to open up to a kind of beauty beyond rational understanding.

[Shad282]

Draw a really big circle on a piece of paper..  then hold a pencil above, maybe an arm's-length... then let go of the pencil.

See where it hits the paper?

 

The circle is infinity (excuse the boundary... please)... the dot marked by the pencil is you...   that is the "point" your asking about in the end, right ?   Cuz without you.... the topic would not exist

so i m here to create that topic where Karl and others argue with each others on stuff that could actually not exist ?

[Shad282]

Consider a young child just playing with no worries... that is happiness.

 

Reason without fundamental clarity, is the basis for suffering. Being natural or one with existence would be true happiness for a Taoist. So consider the possibility of something like... Existence - Reason = Happiness.

 

Be like a child, don't think about it and go with the flow...

easy to say, but very hard to do... even tho kids get themselves in a lot of troubles due to others not being happy at least,.

We don't live in a perfect world... this child playing on a street without worrying... could lead to get hit by a car.  Many factors in life are not stable and not insured, and u can't just ignore everything and just go play around in the world without being cautious and relaxed.

[Shad282]

If the point of existence is happiness, or purpose, there are some guys in Iraq and Syria right now really living life to the fullest. They revel in death and destruction, they relish the subjugation of others including the enslavement and rape of women; their goal is to turn the world into their personal Allah-endorsed death party before the coming apocalypse.

 

If this (a group of humans seeking and apparently finding happiness and purpose) doesn't appeal to us as a satisfactory 'point of existence', it might be good to qualify what we mean by 'happiness' or 'purpose' -- "the point is to be happy, but not at the expense of others", for example -- but then we end up leading ourselves down a rabbit hole of ifs and buts and failing to establish a single 'point of existence'.

 

The answer is simple, though most will never admit it: The question is meaningless. There is no point. Whether you like it or not, all we are is randomly generated code. We have no designated purpose. We exist because we're good at existing, because our genetic code has made humans (and our fellow life-forms on Earth) very good at reproducing and surviving, which essentially means eating and breathing and having sex.

 

I think it is very important to realize this before continuing. I think it's important to realize that your existence is entirely in your hands. If we assume free will is real (another debate) we acknowledge that we all decide for ourselves, and control our future as much as it is in our power to do so.

 

And then we likely realize that there's no point in Allah, or God, or murder or rape. We figure out our desires and ideals based on logic and experience, and this tends to lead us to simply live a healthy, peaceful, mostly productive/creative/nondestructive, mostly happy life. But only because it seems like a good idea, not because it's the 'point of existence'.

 

 

To Shad282,

 

The answer to your original question is that there is no purpose to anything, there is no reason for the existence of the Tao.  In the same way, we might ask, what is the purpose of a dandelion, or the purpose of rain...these things just are.  It is the way that you are looking at life (in I'm afraid, a deluded way...as is much of mankind) that brings about this question.

 

There is this thing that we are calling the Tao.  It is the only thing that exists.  It is Existence.  There is nothing else.  It cannot move anywhere for there is nothing beyond it to move into, and this is one of the reasons that we notice it through stillness.  

 

What we see as different things is the vibrant energy of the Tao manifesting in this way.  The dandelion is the Tao appearing as a flower and rain is the Tao expressed as rain.   It is all Tao.  You who are asking the question and the people you are asking it too are the same Tao.  There is no difference.  It may seem that there is lots of change going on but that is because we are caught up in that difference and then we ask why is 'this' happening, and what is the reason for 'that'.

 

There is no this or that.

 

It is One thing flowering, unfolding as it is.  It does not choose to do so in a particular way, it just does.  So nothing is 'raining' rain.  Nothing is 'flowering' the dandelion.  The same nothing is replying to you now.

 

Being that there is only One Thing...what can it want?  What reason can it have for being? 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Heath

so what am i supposed to do with my life? if there is no reason or purpose for such a form to exist? what am i here to accomplish? what to do next in my life? try to live the no reason i was born into? why do i then need to continue living if i have nothing to do here in this world/reality?

[Marblehead]

so what am i supposed to do with my life? if there is no reason or purpose for such a form to exist? what am i here to accomplish? what to do next in my life? try to live the no reason i was born into? why do i then need to continue living if i have nothing to do here in this world/reality?

WoW!  Getting back to the roots of your Opening Post.

 

Lots of questions.

 

1.  Live it.

 

2.  There is a reason.  Mostly we just don't know or understand it.

 

3.  I'm not sure "accomplish is a good word.  You are here to express life.

 

4.  What to do next?  Look into your deepest feelings.  They will tell you what but your conscious mind has to figure out how.

 

5.  Well, there is a reason.  Your parents having sex had something to do with it.  Being someone they are proud to have given a life to would be a good thing.

 

6.  You don't have to continue living.  But I think it would be wise if you do.  Have some exciting experiences; get your heart broken; repair it so that it can be broken again; try to help others along their journey through life.

 

Don't rush death.  It will happen soon enough on its own.  Enjoy life while you can.  As an Atheist I will include that you will have the rest of eternity to not live.  That will take a long time.

[Nungali]

Analytical knowledge of music can contribute to enjoyment, it´s true.  But it can also be taken too far.  The college I went to also had a music conservatory.  Some of the conservatory students complained that their knowledge of music actually got in the way of pleasurable listening; they were so used to analyzing sounds in their heads that they couldn´t turn it off.

 

Arts education can enrich us up to a point, but there´s still a time when you just want to kick back with a beer and a favorite CD, a time to open up to a kind of beauty beyond rational understanding.

 

 

Wait !   .......   over analytical knowledge can spoil enjoyment  ?        

 

Karl !   Have you read this   ^        ?   

 

[Nungali]

easy to say, but very hard to do... even tho kids get themselves in a lot of troubles due to others not being happy at least,.

We don't live in a perfect world... this child playing on a street without worrying... could lead to get hit by a car.  Many factors in life are not stable and not insured, and u can't just ignore everything and just go play around in the world without being cautious and relaxed.

 

Cautious and  relaxed    .....       yes, great combination !    

[Nungali]

so i m here to create that topic where Karl and others argue with each others on stuff that could actually not exist ?

 

I know the pieces fit 'cause I watched them fall away.

Mildewed and smoldering. Fundamental differing.

Pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers souls in motion

Disintegrating as it goes testing our communication

The light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us so

We cannot seem to reach an end crippling our communication.

 

I know the pieces fit 'cause I watched them tumble down

No fault, none to blame, it doesn't mean I don't desire to

Point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over.

To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication

 

The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,

And the circling is worth it.

Finding beauty in the dissonance.   

 

 

[Nungali]

so what am i supposed to do with my life? if there is no reason or purpose for such a form to exist? what am i here to accomplish? what to do next in my life? try to live the no reason i was born into? why do i then need to continue living if i have nothing to do here in this world/reality?

 

What you are supposed to do is this :

 

Dont listen to such 'advice' , especially if it is  going to be taken the way you did , which, by the way, I find quiet valid. 

 

It can have some significance, depending on interpretation, but often it is supplied as the answer by those who have no answer , and prefer to be 'spiritually cryptic'    

[Nungali]

WoW!  Getting back to the roots of your Opening Post.

 

Lots of questions.

 

1.  Live it.

 

2.  There is a reason.  Mostly we just don't know or understand it.

 

3.  I'm not sure "accomplish is a good word.  You are here to express life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4.  What to do next?  Look into your deepest feelings.  They will tell you what but your conscious mind has to figure out how.

 

5.  Well, there is a reason.  Your parents having sex had something to do with it.  Being someone they are proud to have given a life to would be a good thing.

 

6.  You don't have to continue living.  But I think it would be wise if you do.  Have some exciting experiences; get your heart broken; repair it so that it can be broken again; try to help others along their journey through life.

 

Don't rush death.  It will happen soon enough on its own.  Enjoy life while you can.  As an Atheist I will include that you will have the rest of eternity to not live.  That will take a long time.

 

 

[roger]

so what am i supposed to do with my life? if there is no reason or purpose for such a form to exist? what am i here to accomplish? what to do next in my life? try to live the no reason i was born into? why do i then need to continue living if i have nothing to do here in this world/reality?

 

Einstein said, "Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile."

 

Consider three ideas:

 

Live for others.

 

Live for you.

 

Live for love.

 

I prefer, of these three, live for love.

 

Billy Graham has frequently preached, "Live for Christ."

 

My point is that there can be some kind of higher purpose or dedication.

 

Know that your life DOES indeed have meaning. You don't necessarily have to intellectually understand it to have a deep sense of purpose.

 

Check out Viktor Frankl's books, "Man's Search for Meaning," and, "Man's Search for Ultimate Meaning." He survived a Nazi concentration camp, and developed his Existential philosophy largely from the wisdom gained from his experience.

 

One more thing. The driving ambition of my life has been to find enlightenment, and this goal has provided me with a profound sense of purpose and meaning.

 

You can have a long-term goal or dream that will endow your life with meaning.

 

Oh btw, both Eckhart Tolle and Paramhansa Yogananda teach that the ultimate purpose of our lives is to awaken spiritually.

 

I'm editing this now to add two things.

 

Einstein also said, "Try not to become a man of success, rather, try to become a man of value."

 

And Emerson said, "To live so as to have made one life easier is to have succeeded."

 

Try to be a blessing to others.

Edited September 27, 2016 by roger

[Karl]

Analytical knowledge of music can contribute to enjoyment, it´s true.  But it can also be taken too far.  The college I went to also had a music conservatory.  Some of the conservatory students complained that their knowledge of music actually got in the way of pleasurable listening; they were so used to analyzing sounds in their heads that they couldn´t turn it off.

 

Arts education can enrich us up to a point, but there´s still a time when you just want to kick back with a beer and a favorite CD, a time to open up to a kind of beauty beyond rational understanding.

That's not what I meant. Even well structured music may not appeal if it lacks the values behind it that concur with ones own values. We are listening to composer, not just his skill at composition, but the composers own character transposed onto the composition. A good artist/creator is to find within their work, they are showing themselves to us in such a way that we grasp the abstract from the concrete.

[Brian]

so what am i supposed to do with my life? if there is no reason or purpose for such a form to exist? what am i here to accomplish? what to do next in my life? try to live the no reason i was born into? why do i then need to continue living if i have nothing to do here in this world/reality?

<shrug>

 

What do you want to do?

[thelerner]

Another word for Dao is path.  Sometimes we know the direction we're heading in, we have goal and that makes the journey worthwhile.  Sometimes we don't have a destination but the journey itself is worthwhile.  Why?  For the people we walk with, for the things we learn along the way.  For the seeds we plant that will keep growing. 

 

Mark Twain said Travel broadens the mind.  Along the path, we have opportunities to learn and grow.  To be solemn and have fun.

 

 Roger mentioned Viktor Frankl's books, "Man's Search for Meaning," and, "Man's Search for Ultimate Meaning", good books.  There are others that delve into your quest for finding meaning.  Research them, read them.   See what connects.  Or go the karmic yoga route,  if you don't see a reason to live for yourself, find a cause and live for others; to improve the world.  

[Wayfarer]

To Shad282, answers in bold

 

You said "so what am i supposed to do with my life? Nothing, life is living "as" you, if you try to do something instead of letting it being done you are in a sense severing the flow of what is unfolding naturally...therefore making life difficult for yourself.  Ask yourself why you find it hard that there is nothing to do?  Why must there be something to do?  Where is the do-er in a buttercup?  Where is the do-er in your heartbeat?  Why must you do?  Answer yourself, not me.

 

"if there is no reason or purpose for such a form to exist what am i here to accomplish?" why do you think there is something to accomplish, why can you not be happy with life, existence as it already is, what must be better?  You are on a web forum which focuses on Taoist, Zen and Non-Duality principles; that of there being No-Thing, Emptiness, One.  If this is true, how can the Only One better itself?  How can emptiness be improved.  How can No-Thing be added to?  If you want to understand your religious practice more but cannot answer these questions, then this is where you should focus because they are central to it. 

 

what to do next in my life? You do not have a next life.  'You' IS Life.  You are That which is All.  There is nothing to do in this life but already you are worried about what to do in the next?  Following your logic, can you remember what you did in your last life?  

 

try to live the no reason i was born into? No trying involved, who said anything about trying?  Does a cat have to try to be a cat?  Does a sparrow have to try to be itself?  Why are you different?

 

why do i then need to continue living if i have nothing to do here in this world/reality?"  You don't need to continue living.  There is no need.  There is no need to die either.  Why do you keep thinking you have a need?  Let go of the need...then you might start to notice the ease and peace that is present within that ultimately leads to a position of no thought of anything, no sense of "me" doing this or an "other" which is having something done to it.  There is no reason.  You won't believe it for one simple reason:

 

You are content to listen to your thoughts and not to listen to the space in which they appear and from which they leave.  Try it for yourself.  And answer your own questions

Edited September 27, 2016 by Wayfarer

[Wayfarer]

...apologies...just read that you said "what to do next in my life" and not "what to do next in my life"...I don't know how to edit my post, but I think I answered this question already.  If you want to understand the heart of these religious teachings you should focus on the elements of them that you do not understand.  They speak only of what is natural.  So the answers are within you and in the natural world around you.  Perhaps you could try to understand through nature, that is what you could do next, if you wish to answer your original question.

[Nungali]

Some one could make a point of eliminating the existence of this damn quoting glitch plaguing us .  

[thelerner]

I'd add going through the 'Dark Night of the Soul' probably hits every one who is sensitive and striving for cultivation.   Maybe its even a necessary dip along the Dao of life.  

[silent thunder]

Looking back, it sure seems that it was an inevitability in my path.

 

And it's the sense of this inevitability that in my life now, has become a fluid, flowing, living awareness of the awesome interconnectedness of everything... all life and 'non life'.  My 'body' to distant nebulae.  It's this tangible, unshakable living, vibrant experience that reinforces the notion that once the path is begun, absolutely everything become grist for the mill and propels the inertia of the process.  It's fluid and effortless as it seems to carry me along, yet effort may be 'swollen' into it endlessly.  It never tires, nor sleeps, nor thirsts, yet all of these contribute to it, even though they never touch it.

 

Once begun, the path is the destination, is the journey and for me, here, it is apparent that the only unavoidable situation is to ever be separate from source by even a hairs width for a millisecond, anywhere, ever... 

 

Every act taken and every action not taken, every practice started and dropped and restarted, every utterance and avoidance, each argument and love making... in the end...  it's all equal parts illusion, or truth and further on, inevitably it is revealed as almost indistinguishable at times... truth, perception based truth certainly, but truth as a concept because of this sense of inevitablility is almost... irrelevant to me... 

 

Because at this point, even when I'm served lies and illusion in favor of truth, eventually every illusion serves truth, for when uncovered, untruth serves truth as dutifully as full truth.  For in perceiving what a thing is not... I more deeply enter into a connectedness with what it truly is.  It is that way for me now and for the last couple trips our ball of wet dirt has taken around the burning ball of gas we refer to as the Sun...

 

A personal example... both my mother and my wife, told me very intense big lies about heinous acts done to them, involving people I knew.  These things were not true. 

 

Most of my friends advised me to cut and run when they found out and thought I should lash out and punish them for the transgressions.

 

But thankfully, and I'm so deeply grateful for this... through my connection to them, I had no anger, nor any feeling of being 'misused' in either case. 

 

I saw in both, that what they were doing was what they felt they had to do, to establish a deeper connection with me, that would result in me giving them my love, or more accurately in them being able to accept my love. 

 

In both of these women, based on their childhood beliefs and how they had been abused and forced to believe about themselves that they were undeserving of love in and of themselves... there was not the belief that they were worthy of being loved for who they were... and so they made these stories, in order to create an internal space in them, where they could allow themselves to accept love that was already present.

 

My only action with either of them, was to hold them close and tell them again and again, that I loved them and I always had loved them and nothing could alter that process... not lies, not hateful words, nothing.  I love you and want you to thrive.  That's the gist of my connection with people and that is what makes my life something beyond what I could have expected in my darkest hours.

 

so lucky for the lies and the truths... so grateful.  deeply humbling to share that connection with anyone, ever...

[thelerner]

[Nungali]

According to Zoroaster there is a reason for living - it is to have a good life .  'His'  teachings are geared towards that. 

 

Well, I suppose it is actually about making the best of your situation , not every one 'ends up'    'landing'    in a good spot .