Really, Nothing to do

[Theorangelotus]

I had been practicing stringent and constant awareness of my internal and external environments for close to a year in an effort to reach to a state of enlightenment, however, I wasn't noticing any major benefits from the practice, in fact all that effort to stay aware was keeping me stressed out and in a state of tension.

 

A lot of my energy was caught up in this effort so that when I finally gave it up, the energy came naturally back to me, feeling peace and calm. 

 

Since then I realized that there is nothing to do, nobody to become(in particular) so now allowing things to arise is my favorite thing and it brings me great joy sometimes. I'm at a point now where If I feel like something is arising energetically in my body-mind, I go into it, give it full momentum of movement until something else arises then I allow the same movement with that thing. 

 

My question is, will letting go like this bring me to the state of Wu-wei that lao-tzu talks about? I realize that this is my mind coming in and wanting a guarantee instead of just trusting the process, but, who am I to be against the mind if it has doubts, in fact who am I at all? Who is there to control? I always laugh at anatta.

 

Peace ya'll

 

Also this blog really has been helping me with this process, http://www.calmdownmind.com/

[Marblehead]

Well, it sounds like you have returned to living spontaneously.  (Sorry, I just couldn't resist the temptation.)

 

Bur really, yes, I think you are closer to your true self now.  True to your nature.  But remember, we can't just forget about reality and our connection with it and others.  Wisdom should support spontaneity.

 

And yes, the reduction of stress is good for the body and the mind.

 

And yes, a mind free of stress will allow one to draw nearer to the state of wu wei.  Empty minded but fully aware.  (Drugs don't help here.)

[Theorangelotus]

So, for the sake of a good ole' discussion, do you think I should do whatever this body-mind of mine comes up with?

 

I idealize that this will bring me into a more and more harmonious flow the more that I trust myself and my energy (which Is really the energy of the whole arising in me). I have noticed that my desire to be in the flow state or wu-wei is actually my greatest hindrance to it, so that when I happily go along with my monkey mind and rejoice in its various creative and also dull manifestations(really that there is something there at all, not just pure nothingness is something to rejoice), wu-wei happens. 

 

aren't I always in the Dao so there is no need for me to even be in the state of Wu-wei? why not just forget about daoism all together? while im at it, wouldnt it be best to give up on everything and let go? Oh wait, I forgot...thats wu-wei, mind as empty as the sky even as it is as full and cluttered as my desk drawer.

 

So Im struggling with the paradox...damn I'm confused...best place to with these sorts of things.

[silent thunder]

I had been practicing stringent and constant awareness of my internal and external environments for close to a year in an effort to reach to a state of enlightenment, however, I wasn't noticing any major benefits from the practice, in fact all that effort to stay aware was keeping me stressed out and in a state of tension.

 

A lot of my energy was caught up in this effort so that when I finally gave it up, the energy came naturally back to me, feeling peace and calm. 

 

Since then I realized that there is nothing to do, nobody to become(in particular) so now allowing things to arise is my favorite thing and it brings me great joy sometimes. I'm at a point now where If I feel like something is arising energetically in my body-mind, I go into it, give it full momentum of movement until something else arises then I allow the same movement with that thing. 

 

My question is, will letting go like this bring me to the state of Wu-wei that lao-tzu talks about? I realize that this is my mind coming in and wanting a guarantee instead of just trusting the process, but, who am I to be against the mind if it has doubts, in fact who am I at all? Who is there to control? I always laugh at anatta.

 

Peace ya'll

 

Also this blog really has been helping me with this process, http://www.calmdownmind.com/

 

What you're saying resonates closely with where I've been recently...

Though I still engage in my practices, I no longer 'do them' in the manner I used to... there used to be a rather rigid approach and a solemnity, almost militaristic approach that has evaporated rather spontaneously some time ago.

 

It's more like allowing myself and the forms, or the sitting to cohabitate in the practice space, rather than me entering into some well defined and ordered 'thing'.  There's an amorphous quality to it.

 

I've stopped reading external sources for validation of my process, yet I still read. 

There is no longer a sense of seeking... anything.  Rather, just a simple letting go and being wherever I am.

 

Radical release... and a constant process of letting go. In order to just be.

Simple being.  Really simple. 

[Marblehead]

Yes, paradoxes is something we will find all over the place.  They exist in Taoism as well.

 

I don't have a practice so I can't really suggest any for you except that I do meditate and my method is empty-mined although I don't always achieve the empty-minded state.

 

Yes, the sky; sometimes empty. sometimes little puffy clouds, and other times all hell is about to break loose or already is.  Not much different with our mind.

 

Yes, be as natural as possible.  Of course, we have to comply with society's rules so we already have limits.

 

I talk about harmony much more than I do about balance.  Attaining balance is extremely difficult because everything around us is constantly changing.  But we can harmonize with the changes much easier than we can recover our balance.

 

Yes, trash the desire.  Let it happen naturally, through lessening our stress and hugging trees if that works for you.

 

Yes, we are always in the Dao.  Can't be anywhere else.  But are we being true to our self and are we allowing our self to be as natural as possible?

 

Don't worry about the paradox and let the confusion fly away.

[silent thunder]

Potent stuff Mate!  You sir, have obviously not lost your marbles...

harmony... harmonizing seems so much more attainable than balance and has an effortless quality to it, can even arise through sympathetic vibration... I've experienced this when I'm able to get enough out of my own way to allow spontaneous expression of self... there is some deep wu wei truth being shared in those words my friend.

 

That really resonates...   *deep bow of respect*

[Theorangelotus]

I love what you have said, both of you, it deeply resonates with me and makes me very happy to have some confirmation in the things I have been thinking and feeling lately. (I have yet to find people with whom I can talk with in person in the same way, which is why i'm so glad that this group exists- a worldwide connector of Dao bums   ) 

 

 

Yes, be as natural as possible.  Of course, we have to comply with society's rules so we already have limits.

 

I am finding a certain fearlessness which comes with trusting life, and my own being, I am enjoying testing the actual boundaries of what is socially acceptable for my self rather than relying only on pre-set rules or ideas of what is "the right thing to do". I have found that everything has its right place, including "negative" emotions and thought forms, they arise for a reason after all and they have something to tell us. Sometimes what is socially acceptable is not the right thing to do in a given circumstance.

 

Im feeling sort of like  a social ninja, undercover im as free as the sky, but I take on certain shapes and patterns according to what I feel. feeling relieved of a big burden...

[Gerard]

I had been practicing stringent and constant awareness of my internal and external environments for close to a year in an effort to reach to a state of enlightenment.

 

Hi.

 

Good luck with that!

 

 

OK, remove the word enlightenment from your mind and just practice every day mindfully, consistently and focusing entirely on the basics. If you notice improvement with whatever method you are using, stick to it and keep going. If you get stuck, time for a change. If the method you are using now doesn't work, find a new one and see if your practice picks up again.

 

Best!

 

 

Note: I forgot, do not go with any expectations thinking ahead as in: I will reach this stage after 6 months of solid practice. Nope, you'll encounter a massive roadblock sooner rather than later.

 

GO WITH THE FLOW.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Gerard

[Theorangelotus]

Thank you Gerard, your response is encouraging, entirely good! I feel a bit like him>>>>

 

 

 

Except its more like ive moved beyond thought motivation, the momentum is now rooted deep in my being, lets see where this train takes me

[Theorangelotus]

Its nice to know that no matter what I do or what happens to the small me(my self) the larger whole (the real me) really cannot be destroyed. I remind myself of a quote from the movie waking life, "even destruction is a creative action". What a joy to realize this, and then even more to put it into action, life is a creative movement! life giving birth to new life to new life to new life to new life to new life to new life>>>>>>>>>> "the snake is long, it's seven miles", sorry jimbo morrison, the snake is actually really long, its infinite. 

[thelerner]

Seems to me some people have an innate wisdom for spontaneous action, there instinctive action prove pure and right.  Kinda like heaven smiles upon them.  It's amazing, they are naturals.  Others try, listen to there instincts and everything goes to hell.  Their desires, plans, life end up a mess.   Those on this side of the spectrum would do well to always think before acting. 

 

Probably most of us are in the middle.  To use spontaneity in certain circumstances, other times just act.  The only way to know where you fall is to know yourself.  How well has instinct done for you?  Do you follow it and life is good?  Then keep going.  Otherwise, don't trust it too much, think and plan. 

[Marblehead]

I will never suggest that my following my instincts has always resulted in perfection.  I have messed up really badly at times.  But looking back I can say that I did what seemed to be the best thing to do at the time.  So we messed up.  No problem.  Fix it and do something else.  (But learn from our mistakes; that's when wisdom begins to grow.)

[manitou]

Hi.

 

Good luck with that!

 

 

OK, remove the word enlightenment from your mind and just practice every day mindfully, consistently and focusing entirely on the basics. If you notice improvement with whatever method you are using, stick to it and keep going. If you get stuck, time for a change. If the method you are using now doesn't work, find a new one and see if your practice picks up again.

 

Best!

 

 

Note: I forgot, do not go with any expectations thinking ahead as in: I will reach this stage after 6 months of solid practice. Nope, you'll encounter a massive roadblock sooner rather than later.

 

GO WITH THE FLOW.

 

 

 

Good advice, IMO.  To strive for enlightenment is of the ego, which is counterproductive.

[Gerard]

Not a problem Theo.

 

No expectations, just minor changes over time. The big opening will occur eventually, do not get focused on this lifetime either because the process...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is not even dependent on you.

 

How can you swim faster than the current that is already taking you downstream, you simply can't!

 

And about lifetimes, let's not forget that there is only one lifetime, what you experience here in the physical is only one aspect of existence. All these lifetimes thing are just experiences, shadows of the true mind.

 

Appearances are a glimpse of the unseen (Anaxagoras).

 

Be mindfully present, here and now, nothing else matters, no past or future.

 

It should be carved in your mind like a daily mantra. Use a mala beads if required.

 

Best!

 

 

[Theorangelotus]

Gerard, I find what you said especially helpful in reminding me that the destination is right under my feet, the path i'm walking on now. There is also a part of me which feels let down...but I remind myself that this feeling too is part of the path, something that can be experienced mindfully, and also with great interest. 

[9th]

Everyone loves to look for or try to give descriptions of the way of wu wei... but its generally less than productive in my opinion.  Its not really possible with our style of language because the level of mind that invents (and uses) human verbal language is lesser than (and not equal to) the way of wu wei, which is essentially prior to this aspect of human mind, and is even specifically its source in the first place - as well as the source of many other states and realms and beings and so forth.  It is indeed "superior" to the human mind, and as such cannot really be grasped from that side - only retroactively discussed from the side of wu wei, in essentially "broken" human terms because the totality of the tao cannot be contained by human terminology or description.

 

This takes one back to the idea of "silent knowledge" where there is conceptual thought and symbolic understanding that is above and beyond the basic human mind.  This would be a "superhuman" language, in other words - and the closest source for us is literally our DNA.  The information encoded in the DNA inside your body spans millions of years.  This could be considered the "earth mind" as opposed to the "human mind"... although it is splitting hairs to some degree because even these terms such as "earth" and "human" are in themselves limited in scope and (as already said) cannot encompass the totality of reality itself in all its various interpenetrations and codependencies with their holistic functions and so forth. 

 

So when you are speaking of wu wei you are speaking about a way of being that is based in a mind that is fully saturated with such "silent knowledge".  There is no need for internal discussions or thoughts of that nature, because the knowledge which is used to apprehend the world is prior to thoughts of that nature, and is superior in terms of accuracy and depth of understanding regarding the relativity involved in any given situation.  Wu wei is therefore sourced from a level of consciousness which is literally greater than the "human mind".  That is why it is so difficult to describe the way of wu wei or how it operates, when using this same human mind.  It can be referred to after the fact, but in my opinion only poetically - with an eye towards investigations of a multidimensional nature rather than anything like a scientific analysis.  People who are looking for a scientific analysis and/or simplistic breakdown of living in wu wei are just out of luck - its not going to happen.

 

The best thing is to just follow your nose as much as possible, like you seem to be doing - and what Im saying is that almost all discussion surrounding that level of practice is pointless until you have a good number of actual working materials, and at that point you can "get serious" about it in any number of ways.  Yes there are traditions that specifically address such a level of functioning, but ultimately this may or may not be necessary depending on your personal being and nature and so forth.  I will say that making the most out of such traditions would require a lifelong level of commitment involving countless sacrifices of an extreme nature... to the extent that 99% of the population cannot achieve, in my opinion.  However, again - that may or may not be necessary according to your personal being and nature and so forth.  Some people seem to just spontaneously arrive with no practice at all whatsoever, of which there are many documented cases - and there are many other things possible in the intersection between this and the standard idea of a practice or path that is followed with discipline and proper efforts and all that.  

 

Ultimately any kind of system (or "form" of any sort) will not be able to contain the raw potential of what has been described as the tao.  It is so far beyond them that you may as well strike out on your own as soon as you are able, because that is how you will personally make the most of it - however the point at which this occurs in terms of formal training and so forth will be different for everyone.  Some need none, some need it all the way, some need something in between - and then there are plenty of strange situations beyond this... so many very, very strange things are possible.  But ultimately, we are working with results - not possibilities - this is the crucial key that must be understood before anything whatsoever can be achieved.

[exorcist_1699]

In fact, you should let  the accumulated jing and qi guides you and don't add any extra minds or expectations to it.

 

In some sense , Taoist way is cleverer than the Buddhist  .

 

Buddhist way is like a kitten which tries to  grasp its own tail , whenever it moves , it distance itself from  the target and fails  ; it is like whenever you expect to get enlightenment , inside you an overeager, undeserved  idea arises,  making you not capable of    getting the   no-mind  ,  and without a prolonged no-mind  , never will enlightenment  come upon you..;

 

Taoist way is not solely dependent on the mind,  its doing a series of  self denial so as to upgrade itself, but also about  the time  , the jing and qi's help ..etc.  Elements from I-Ching and TCM does provide helps that the Indian lineage doesn't get .

Edited October 21, 2016 by exorcist_1699