Bagua mastery program

[Vajra Fist]

So Bruce Frantzis is going to start selling his Bagua Mastery Program again. Did anyone get it the first time around?

 

Do you learn a martial form or is a series of mudras you employ while walking the circle?

[GreytoWhite]

If you can afford it, go elsewhere and save your coin. If you have someone within a couple of hours' drive that you can train with do that. Video learning is best used as a reminder for something you've already had hands-on experience.

[Gerard]

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Edited January 4, 2017 by Gerard

[Leif]

Do you learn a martial form or is a series of mudras you employ while walking the circle?

 

IIRC, neither one. It was the basics for first years of practice,the core. Circle walking, neigong and meditation.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Leif

[Wu Ming Jen]

Eight Trigram Palm,

 

A great system for those who get bored with self defense of just a few opponents at one time. One on one defense can make some people very sleepy and lose interest quickly.

[Alchemistgeorge]

So Bruce Frantzis is going to start selling his Bagua Mastery Program again. Did anyone get it the first time around?

Do you learn a martial form or is a series of mudras you employ while walking the circle?

 

I got it the first time around, and am getting the add-ons. It covers walking the circle, the eight palm changes (martial forms), and all the basic monastic practices from his lineage (which are transformative personal meditations performed while doing circle walking). There are also warm up and preparatory  exercises, and circle walking as a meditation.

 

Its very much like his other material. Its relatively expensive in terms of cost per hour of video.  This one also includes extensive written material that supplements and explains the video and the practices.  There is a ton of information and it is very detailed especially on fundamentals. He breaks the material down until it is relatively simple, but little of it is easy.

 

It begins with information on 'how to step', and how to walk: first in a straight line, then in a circle. Later he teaches the first palm change. There are many places where he explains a particular point, and then you are expected to practice on your own until you get that point. This could take you two hours, ten hours, ten weeks.  For example, one of Bruce's instructors told me I should expect to spend about 100 hours of practice to master and internalize 'the four-part step.' (this is the way you move your feet, legs and hip joints for every step as you walk the circle / do any bagua movement.)

 

I'm very fortunate in that there are several of his instructors living in SF Bay area (watertradition.net.), so in addition to having taken a couple of weekend workshops from Bruce (once a year at most), I can go to weekly classes. As others have pointed out, this material is a great addition to a live teacher, or infrequent weekend workshops. I don't know if I'd recommend it as a program for someone who has never studied Bruce's material and who has no access to a live teacher.

[Dainin]

I haven't seen the Bagua material by Bruce Frantzis, but I have some of his other qigong materials and they are extremely detail oriented, as he was the one time I studied with him in person.

 

Just as an FYI, Tom Bisio also has an online Bagua distance learning program. The first level features circle walking and a good variety of foundational exercises, nei gong, tao yin, zhan zhong, etc. The intermediate level features eight basic palm changes and more advanced nei gong:

 

http://www.internalartsinternational.com/programs

 

I don't have these programs, but I did buy his Xing Yi Nei Gong module and was pleased with it.

[Vajra Fist]

Thanks all. George, are there any major differences between the latest and the odigital iteration of the program?

[joeblast]

I haven't seen the Bagua material by Bruce Frantzis, but I have some of his other qigong materials and they are extremely detail oriented, as he was the one time I studied with him in person.

 

Just as an FYI, Tom Bisio also has an online Bagua distance learning program. The first level features circle walking and a good variety of foundational exercises, nei gong, tao yin, zhan zhong, etc. The intermediate level features eight basic palm changes and more advanced nei gong:

 

http://www.internalartsinternational.com/programs

 

I don't have these programs, but I did buy his Xing Yi Nei Gong module and was pleased with it.

Bisio's Bagua Nei Gung book was good too

[Alchemistgeorge]

Thanks all. George, are there any major differences between the latest and the odigital iteration of the program?

Well, instead of hundreds of pages of text plus stacks of DVDs, its all PDF files and MP4s.

 

There is a lot of extra material (added cost). The original program is just the first palm (?), the extra material includes the other seven AND the monastic practices (circle walking with different arm movements and postures).

[Gerard]

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Edited January 4, 2017 by Gerard

[GreytoWhite]

Monastic what? Marketing hoopla by Mr Frantzis to sell his product.

 

Indeed. I hear it often, "Why doesn't his bagua look like other lineages out there?" The answer is that he doesn't have a complete system because he learned from so many people. He has chop suey that he has repackaged and charges a high enough fee that people think it must be primo training.

[Sudhamma]

There are no mudras (mystical hand signs, tantric tradition) in Baqua traditional martial arts practices, walking the circle included. Baquazhang is not about exclusively walking the circle though it is the root practice, there are also linear "walking" in the system.

[GreytoWhite]

I'm going to have to admit that there may well be an extant monastic baguazhang. Scott P. Phillips has been doing some major research into connecting the baguazhang we know today to priestly practices in the worship of the Indian import of the god Nezha. Nezha is a Buddhist/Daoist god that came into China about 1,000 years ago. Scott also studied with Kumar Frantzis at one time. I'm looking forward to more information. That said, I still don't like Kumar's stuff, he's very much about high-priced marketing and was repeatedly kicked out of schools for being an asshole. Everyone I've talked to who doesn't have teacher worship syndrome says he has something but isn't pleasant and not very invested in personally developing his students.

[Vajra Fist]

Before splashing out $1000 on the course I decided to torrent the old course to get a taste of the material. I'm glad I did.

 

I found him to be quite pompous, which was rendered slightly comical by his obesity. That put me off.

 

The material itself seems very indepth and the system seems powerful. I had a medical clairvoyant test it and found it to be mostly focused on the root chakra, with later development over the years of all other chakras. So a good system, but you've got to resonate with the teacher.

 

I think I'll stick to my shaolin for now. It tested a lot better for not only physical but spiritual development. Maybe I'll give it some more thought a bit further down the line.

 

Thanks all for your input and support.

[Aetherous]

There are no mudras (mystical hand signs, tantric tradition) in Baqua traditional martial arts practices, walking the circle included. Baquazhang is not about exclusively walking the circle though it is the root practice, there are also linear "walking" in the system.

 

Interesting. Will you share your source for bagua having linear walking? Thanks!

[GreytoWhite]

Most people only know of the 64 Hands linear sets.

 

 

That said, the linear walking is where the juice comes from like xingyi. The Yin guys from Xie Peiqi's line practice every strike in different manners and the circle walking is just the conduit to link the strikes.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlNUwHYdqaQ?t=3m44s

Edited December 22, 2016 by GreytoWhite

[Papayapple]

I haven't seen the Bagua material by Bruce Frantzis, but I have some of his other qigong materials and they are extremely detail oriented, as he was the one time I studied with him in person.

 

Just as an FYI, Tom Bisio also has an online Bagua distance learning program. The first level features circle walking and a good variety of foundational exercises, nei gong, tao yin, zhan zhong, etc. The intermediate level features eight basic palm changes and more advanced nei gong:

 

http://www.internalartsinternational.com/programs

 

I don't have these programs, but I did buy his Xing Yi Nei Gong module and was pleased with it.

Recently I've stumbled upon Bisio's book Bagua Nei Gong Foundation Body training

If somebody could kindly skim through the content list and tell me if this would be the good place to start?

thx.

[Leif]

Recently I've stumbled upon Bisio's book Bagua Nei Gong Foundation Body training

If somebody could kindly skim through the content list and tell me if this would be the good place to start?

thx.

 

you can also check http://www.internalartsinternational.com/programs/ba-gua-zhang-distance-learning-program-foundational-level/  for what Bisio himself recommends as a good place to start (this book is included in his foundational level online course)

Edited December 22, 2016 by Leif

[Gerard]

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Edited January 4, 2017 by Gerard

[Sudhamma]

Dear Aetherous, You can find linear "walking" from the Yin Fu lineage. I practise the Yin-P'ai, Gong-M'en system of baquazhang. Yin p'ai means the school of Yin Fu, the first disciple of the founder Dong Hai Chuan and Gong-M'en means a sub-system created by Gong Bao Tien, a disciple of Yin Fu. My first set, the Black Dragon set, has linear walking. The most basic set is linear in Gong-M'en. The Baqua Roushenggong routine which I practised consist of 32 techniques of which the 8-mother palms (part of the routine) is walking the circle, 16 linear movements, and 8 stationery. One of the fighting principles in Baquazhang is when the opponent comes in straight, I will move in circle; when the opponent circles me, I will enter straight into his centre.

[GreytoWhite]

Here is the linear palms set descended from Gao Yisheng meant for fighting applications.

 

[Papayapple]

If somebody could kindly skim through the content list and tell me if this would be the good place to start?

 

.................................................

 

Bagua should be learnt in real life. Stay away from that sort of learning, please. This art is way too complex to be learnt online.

 

I thought you were going to attend Damo Mitchell's classes in your country?

Yes I know and thanks for your emphasis once again. I was hoping I could find a nice Jibengong set in the book Gerard.

The videos of master He are great, I've watched most of them and I practice the stances.

I'm just looking for a more or less "complete" routine, and still trying to find out which exercises are best for me right now.

Something that would have detailed step by step instructions - like this awesome one

And Damo- he's out of reach for me now.

[Gerard]

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Edited January 4, 2017 by Gerard

[Gerard]

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Edited January 4, 2017 by Gerard