acupuncture in the west gaining credibility

[Sunya]

was debating with my friend about energy. his claim was that yoga was beneficial but only because of the increase in blood flow and that the term energy shouldn't be attached to it at all, i found an interesting article that talks about this energy

 

http://www.icmart.org/icmart99/ab24.htm

 

i found this part interesting

 

Modern science has already confirmed that every living being contains electrical charges within its body. The human body is not different. Modern physiology shows us that although these charges are very small, we can nonetheless measure their strength and distribution. In fact, a number of modern medical devices, including the electrocardiogram, electroencephalogram, electromyogram and nuclear magnetic resonance imaging, all rely on the distribution of electromagnetic charges vi the body in order to function.

 

In the West, it was a German, Dr. R.Voll, who was the first to systematically record the electrical energy of the human body. Volt used an electrical probe to measure electrical resistance at points all over the body. He discovered that there were numerous locations which gave unusual reading, that is, which had lower electrical resistance, and that the distribution of these points delineated several fixed routes...

 

At the same time as Voll was carrying out his research, a Japanese doctor named Nakatani was using an electrical device to test patients. Nakatani also discovered numerous points of low electrical resistance which he connected into pathways. The electrical pathways these two men discovered are in almost complete accord with the meridians of Traditional Chinese Medicine. Moreover, the points of low electrical resistance exactly correspond to the acupuncture points of Traditional Medicine...

 

Most modern explanations of the meridian system go at it from the perspective of the body's physiological structure, dividing it into a system for the circulation of blood, and another for the circulation of "vital energy" (Qt). But there are some scholars who take a different approach, tackling the problem from the perspective of physics, They have found a great deal of evidence to support their view, and in doing so have pulled Chinese and Western Medicine closer together, perhaps even giving them a basis for the integration during the next Millennium...

[sunshine]

A happy Hi,

 

with the following I am reffering to your topic line...

 

I tell you something about the "credibility" of acupuncture:

 

recently in Germany a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGG study has been done. I don t know just hooooooow many doctors were part of it... all I know is that a major university was involved in the statistic part...

 

The study "proved" acupuncture to be helpful in cases of headache and vertebral pain problems...

 

what only few people know is:

first of all the docs doing the acupuncture got paid for it. Believe me (I know cases)... they did not oly treat headaches and vertebral stuff... "you have eye ache? You sure have a headache too, don t you?"

 

Then the docs did not even have the same kind of education (ranging from few hours to many), different years of experience etc. etc. etc.

 

Where is the validity?

 

Interestingly state insurances now pay (a little) for cases of gonarthrosis and headache based on that study... BUT: only recently I found out that in one state of Germany there is no accredition for acupuncture given BECAUSE there is NO SCIENTIFIC PROVE FOR IT.

 

That is double tongue here, is`n t it?

 

There are many studies out there showing that acupuncture is quite effective in pain relief and in other cases as well. Look at the indications given by the WHO.

 

But is there any real proof beyond that?

 

Many different explanations are given of what the meridian system is, what the medium is that is sending the informations throughout the body... be it a special fluid, tissue or nerval structure not yet fully identified...

 

As far as I know there is no REAL understanding involved accept what we know of "reflexology" acupunture...

 

The Proof of Acupuncture one can only see in practice. The results you get with the methods applied. Even bad methods produce results but proper methods produce even results in cases were bad methods fail...

 

The credibility of acupuncture is only to be found in the practice and experience. IF for the first time in your life you feel something in the needle THEN you know there is something. If you then manipulate it this or that way and you get this or that result you have the proof that what you intent to achieve actually is achieved.

 

sorry for ranting

 

 

Harry

[Fears]

You can use a tool to measure what you want to , that measurement only defines it for that given instance with those limited parameters.

 

Different tools can measure chi, and chi can manifest in many forms.

 

I am all for science attempting to characterize the health benefits of Qi. But the limits of testing and its tools must be clear.

 

Thanks for the link and thread.

[sheng zhen]

There is an amazingly big collection of research done on acupuncture since the 70's. I seriously dont know what the fuzz is all about. Same about meditation. There are people, or scientists, who truly still dosent believe in the effects of meditation. There are over 800 research articles done on meditation, we dont need to do more reaserach to figure out if it works or not. Considering the amount of research done on meditation it should be made an obligational part of elementary school. I havent thoughroughly looked into the research material on acupuncture, but Im shure the amount of research is breathtaking.

 

There is nothing to be unsure about - acupuncture works, even when looked at from a scientifical point of view. The beliefsystems around acupuncture is something different, they are not accepted, and cannot be accepted by the current worldview of science. The concept of qi and lifeforce can not be proved by science because science and all its mesurement systems is based on electromagnetism and gravity. And that is the limitation of science. Claiming that there might be other forces as well is like claiming that the world is actually round, or that the earth is actually NOT the center of the universe, or that mankind is NOT the highes evolved and most intelligent beings in the universe.

 

That scientists and doctors still dismiss acupuncture as superstition or placebo is just because they havent taken their time to inform themselves about it. They act according to their own blind faith, their own beliefsystems, and nothing else. They are no better than the religious fanatics they try to be better than

[Trunk]

the term energy

Kirlian photography is a good topic to bring up in these sorts of conversations. Plenty of images on the web. Immediately takes the conversation 'to the next level'.

 

[三江源]

what a beautiful image.