Mair 2:14

[Marblehead]

Once upon a time Chuang Chou {{Master Chuang (Chuang Tzu).  The surname Chuang means "solemn" and Chou, his personal name, signifies "[all] round" or "whole."}} dreamed that he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting about happily enjoying himself.  He didn't know that he was Chou.  Suddenly he awoke and was palpably Chou.  He did not know whether he was Chou who had dreamed of being a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming that he was Chou.  Now, there must be a difference between Chou and the butterfly.  This is called the transformation of things.

[Taoist Texts]

Here, by 'the transformation of things' ZZ means death and rebirth in a new incarnation. For the purposes of this parable  ZZ remembers and recounts his dreaming of being a butterfly, but normally, an ordinary man does not remember his previous dream-life ( "He didn't know that he was Chou".).

 

 

This sentence

 

"He did not know whether he was Chou who had dreamed of being a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming that he was Chou.  "

 

Should read

 

"When he was a butterfly he did not know he was Chou; and when he was Chou he did not know he was a a butterfly"

 

Therefore this parable, as are many others in ZZ, is an argument in favor of reincarnation, undergoing  which a man forgets his previous life.

[Marblehead]

It's not often I disagree with you Taoist Text, but this is one of those times.

 

IMO he is talking only about the difference between physical reality and a dream.  And this association can be taken directly into physical reality in that we oftentimes do not know the difference between the truth of reality and our illusions and delusions of what reality is.

 

The "transformation of things" speaks to the concepts of birth/death, creation/destruction, etc.

[Taoist Texts]

Disagreeing is good.)

 The "transformation of things" speaks to the concepts of birth/death, creation/destruction, etc.

But in this case is not it referring particularly to the transformation of ZZ into a butterfly and back? 

[Marblehead]

Disagreeing is good.)

But in this case is not it referring particularly to the transformation of ZZ into a butterfly and back? 

Not in my opinion.  It speaks to the thought that when we dream we think that our dreams are real.  When we wake up at first we can't decide if the dream was real or if it was only a dream.

 

Chuang Tzu did not transform into a butterfly.  Nor did the butterfly transform into Chuang Tzu.  The dreamer was real; the dream was not.

 

Now, true, the caterpillar will transform into a butterfly.  But Chuang Tzu likely never did.  Had he it would have been a miracle. 

 

And actually, IMO the last sentence doesn't even belong in the section.  Probably a later addition.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

This one didn't get much discussion.  Maybe the next one will do better.