the philosophy behind kunlun

[Mantra68]

It seems people are oversimplifying the bliss concept. First of all, it is not that sensational in that it is not addictive (like shooting "junk" into your arm). It is the scintillating divine flow that is naturally felt within an open energy channel.

 

The recognition of this energy as our natural state is the enlightenment of those who have experienced it. The following instinctive response (like discovering a buried treasure) is to enthusiastically work to clear everything that prevents the unencumbered divine flow throughout your being.

 

This is not the end of the game. There are infinitely vast levels of understanding to explore beyond this.

 

With Kunlun you experience the Tao for what it is.

 

Talk is practically worthless.

[Cameron]

Max's student Richard told me basically the exact same thing that I heard Adyashanti say on this topic.

 

 

When I was waiting outside of Max's hotel room in LA waiting for my private talk I was talking to Richard. I was in full blown Red Phoenix mode and remember I had bought a Coca Cola for myself and one for Max.

 

Richard goes "It's like your that Coke can and realizing your a Coke can".

 

Simple.

 

I have heard Adyashanti say the same thing in different ways. One time someone was really struggling in Satsang about enlightenment and can she ever get enlightened and Adyashanti goes "Of course, you are already enlightened. It's like if your a car saying you want to become a car. You are already that".

 

So, as far as I can tell, Adya and Max's essential message is the same.

 

Max, however, is just way,way cooler

[jjwalters]

I was drawn to the Tao by the first verse in Tao Te Ching......The Tao that can be told is not the eternal tao.........

 

after 40 years (since returning from military duty in SE Asia) of trying to make sense of life and listening to a zillion teachers willing to show me the Way through drugs/religious doctrine/dogma/practices of all sorts.......I have become satisfied believing there IS no easy fix, nor short cut, nor path other than my own.......and that the long way is in reality the shortest way........

 

In a world of 'experts' concerning everything else.....it is comforting to realize that nobody who walks this path knows any more than the guy beside him.........because there IS no guy beside him....nor in front leading the way.

 

Some days I feel like shit......some days I feel the oneness.......but everyday I experience something.........and that's all it is for me........experiencing life.............

 

anything else like dropping ego or aligning chakras or raising energy fields (all this 'to-do' stuff) is sort of like putting icing on a cake that would taste better without the sweetness.

 

In my minds eye I can see a group of Taoists discussing the latest Brown's game far easier than discussing the latest 'proven technique' to imortality............just my opinion.

[Wayfarer64]

 

In my minds eye I can see a group of Taoists discussing the latest Brown's game far easier than discussing the latest 'proven technique' to imortality............just my opinion.

 

why not a more interesting team -!? The Browns ain't goin' nowhere...

[xenolith]

It is the scintillating divine flow...

flow of what?

...within an open energy channel.

what channel?

With Kunlun you experience the Tao for what it is.

How? Take a legitimate stab at this one please.

Talk is practically worthless.

Unless its from Max. Then its worth $300? Hmmmm.....

 

 

sean,

 

I tried to post the following in a separate post but it attached itself to the end of this one....????

 

Anyhoo, comments...

 

Thanks for the insights/references to physical manifestations of bliss, ecstasy, etc.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments to Michael.

 

I think its important to remind us that enlightenment is both a punctuated state of awareness and an extended (rest of Life ideally!) state of awareness (no less profound, but not so much Ah ha! as it is 'knowing') after the punctuated one. Its important to define which of these we're talking about when we're discussing enlightenment.

Edited December 4, 2007 by xenolith

[宁]

i agree with xeno for some points - what a coincidence

 

my own research shows me that taoists were scholars and savants, not self-sufficient idiots...

 

i agree with mantra 68 too, too much philosophy gets us nowhere

 

my own research has shown me that too much beating around the bush is counterproductive, so to speak

 

 

 

in the end, consider that kunlun may very well be something fit for people that prefer not to think too much

 

regarding shifu max as a system buster... on one way, it could be interesting... but only in a way that, when you bust a system that doesnt work, you replace it with another system... if you watch nature closely, systems are ways by which nature tries to couple condition and referrence together, to enhance survival and progress... individuality is scarce in nature... we talk mainly systems, ecosystems...

 

no offense ment, but this kunlun subject may interest some people around here, but not everyone... and everywhere i look, kunlun here, kunlun there... is just too much... please, wasnt tao about the middle way, not too much, not too little?

 

another thing, if you please. my discussions with other wise members of this community seem to agree on one point... we all seem to feel that what shifu max teaches is good, but it feels like something is so incomplete... i dont know if you know what i mean... we didnt participate on workshops and that, but from what you as practicioners made us feel about this kunlun... this feels to be the case...

 

i am only wondering and asking along, there is no need to be upset on that. i would really love to hear a clear point on that... up until now, matra 68, with all due respect, was very evasive... you may steal some attention with that system breaking-no theory theory, so what... there are still many that arent so convinced...

 

by the way, if i want to, i could have bliss 24-7

and i dont think bliss leads to liberation

liberation is liberation from all states, including bliss, isnt that what Lord Buddha said?

 

Little

[Yoda]

Talk is practically worthless.

 

 

Mantra- We'll take it from here, dude.

 

 

JJ- You should watch the Attenborough documentary on Mother Teresa. Combining bliss and scraping people off the streets in one convenient package! I don't think you can have bliss without having the desire to share it with others. The essence of real compassion.

 

 

Sean- Go tribal south!! Once I get this speaking in tongues thing down, I'm off to a pentacostal church!

 

 

If you produce nourishing pleasant 'energy', it heals the body and psyche: they are nourished and relax. When they relax, it's easier to let go. Also, the channels are more likely to open and fill, and that facilitates Deeper Integration.

 

Yum!

[Mantra68]

In terms of liberation, tell me this: how do you get there?

 

Do you know?

 

What stands in the way of the liberation you are referring to?

 

"liberation from all states" Is it that unclear that I am talking about the same thing?

 

Did I ever say that bliss was the end-all state?

 

Those who practice Kunlun experience liberation. After the chaos period of clearing out their own "stuff" the liberation (harmony) is what remains.

 

Until you try it (and that is up to you) you can only be speaking from the outside of an experience.

 

How many words can describe a roller coaster ride? It is the experience that matters. You sit down and strap in, then find out for yourself what it is. Who would rely on someone else's description of this kind of experience? Even worse are those who did and then spoke on the topic of 'roller coastering' as if they actually knew something about it.

 

In terms of your "research" it seems as though you haven't found many real Taoist masters. If you had, you would know that they are ALL very self-sufficient in their practice and existence.

 

Middle way? Here is a little perspective shift: Kunlun is a subject that is discussed in THIS forum primarily. The rest of the whole giant world is not discussing it, so it is far from dominating any water cooler conversations beyond Tao Bums.

[Trunk]

How many words can describe a roller coaster ride? It is the experience that matters. You sit down and strap in, then find out for yourself what it is. Who would rely on someone else's description of this kind of experience?...

Really effective metaphor.

You hit the sweet spot on that one.

[joeblast]

indeed...and it isnt the whole amusement park, either

[宁]

ok... at least i tried... it seems we talk paralel... no intersection

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[xenolith]

Mantra, shall I understand that you choose to not answer my questions?

[Cameron]

xenolith.

 

You have been taken off Cam ignore.

 

Let's help eachother build a better world together.

 

Best.

[Guest winpro07]

To swim in a sea of bliss? So much would i give for this.....

so i was thinking... too much probably.

 

who cares about bliss? and why is that being associated with enlightenment?

i'm drawn to kunlun because of the energetic development but i don't understand why its being marketed as a fast one way ticket to bliss.. and the word enlightenment is thrown in. to me enlightenment is more than just feeling good, i can just take extasy pill every morning for that. enlightenment to me is dispelling illusion and living in oneness. knowing the truth and living the truth. what does that have to do with bliss? and why does the philosophy of kunlun seem so 'dumbed down'? no offense meant to Max of course, but i feel that questioning our teachers methods are important or else we'd be mindless drones.

[Guest winpro07]

Get on your asses, and practice!

 

Kun Lun is the fast way. The narrow way. The path home.

 

Talk is easy. Feeling is next to impossible -especially for us males.

 

Take this roller coater ride. Everything is in it. There is only 'one thing' in the way of you 'getting in'.

Feel. Your heart can only be excited by it.we HAVE ALWAYS BEEN MISSING LOVE AND COMPASSION. Too many moments go by without these. Why wait? Why delay? After 20 years of search I immediately knew Kun Lun to be 'IT'. Even with Great excitement for this I was faced with resistance that nearly prevented me from walking through the door. I hope that you all offer your selves the opportunity to try, and see.

i agree with xeno for some points - what a coincidence

 

my own research shows me that taoists were scholars and savants, not self-sufficient idiots...

 

i agree with mantra 68 too, too much philosophy gets us nowhere

 

my own research has shown me that too much beating around the bush is counterproductive, so to speak

in the end, consider that kunlun may very well be something fit for people that prefer not to think too much

 

regarding shifu max as a system buster... on one way, it could be interesting... but only in a way that, when you bust a system that doesnt work, you replace it with another system... if you watch nature closely, systems are ways by which nature tries to couple condition and referrence together, to enhance survival and progress... individuality is scarce in nature... we talk mainly systems, ecosystems...

 

no offense ment, but this kunlun subject may interest some people around here, but not everyone... and everywhere i look, kunlun here, kunlun there... is just too much... please, wasnt tao about the middle way, not too much, not too little?

 

another thing, if you please. my discussions with other wise members of this community seem to agree on one point... we all seem to feel that what shifu max teaches is good, but it feels like something is so incomplete... i dont know if you know what i mean... we didnt participate on workshops and that, but from what you as practicioners made us feel about this kunlun... this feels to be the case...

 

i am only wondering and asking along, there is no need to be upset on that. i would really love to hear a clear point on that... up until now, matra 68, with all due respect, was very evasive... you may steal some attention with that system breaking-no theory theory, so what... there are still many that arent so convinced...

 

by the way, if i want to, i could have bliss 24-7

and i dont think bliss leads to liberation

liberation is liberation from all states, including bliss, isnt that what Lord Buddha said?

 

Little

 

 

" What do you get when you fill one 'Dumb Mindelss Drone' with a sea of bliss?

xenolith.

 

You have been taken off Cam ignore.

 

Let's help eachother build a better world together.

 

Best.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Xenoth,

 

The answer you will get is because they where silly questions!!!

 

 

 

For the rest of Kunlun Cult team, why not put up a clip of your talking in tongues, getting stuck on tennis court nets, screaming orgasms, Max's clip did not convince me and since you are all sharing the BLISS share it with the non Bliss people so we can all understand better? Comon PLEASSSSSSE??? I would like to see you bending and perfiorming different Asana, and what not.

 

What is bliss?? Still no answers....

 

Winpro,

 

What other practices you done to compare and who was the teachers?

 

Put up a clip of your Bliss?

[Cameron]

.

" What do you get when you fill one 'Dumb Mindelss Drone' with a sea of bliss?

 

 

Hehe. Thanks for your kind words winpro.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Where is the Kunlun Bliss clip Cameron, Stuck to any tennis courts lately? lolol

[sean]

Where is the Kunlun Bliss clip Cameron, Stuck to any tennis courts lately? lolol

Wu Yuen Gong, you are trolling and this is warning #1.5.

 

Sean

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Sean,

 

Your right thanks for the warning ill back off!

 

WYG

[Mantra68]

Mantra, shall I understand that you choose to not answer my questions?

Xeno,

You probably won't ever try this yourself so I will do my best to explain: let's see...first there is a little bit of anxiety mixed with excitement and then you sit there and wait. It is just when you don't think you can wait any longer, it starts. The movement is awkward at first but once it gets going it gets smoother as it speeds up. Then you feel yourself climbing and climbing. When you think you can't go any higher, you peak. Then it is an intense rush of energy as you drop. It is hard to find the words to describe the feeling but it has to be the closest thing to flying. As you adjust to the "flying" it changes and you begin a kind of spiraling that sends the energy through your crown center. This sensation is followed by a slower sort of inversion of self and it is like everyone around you is experiencing the same thing simultaneously. Suddenly you feel yourself whip around and it all comes to an abrupt halt which can be kind of a shock, but the shock is quickly replaced by an adrenaline rush like you have never felt before.

 

Not sure if any of that resonates with you but take my word, it is the most amazing ride I have ever been on.

 

Bear in mind, I have yet to visit other parks but Batman at Six Flags over Texas is the greatest I have ever tried. If you went and told everyone that you think so too, I would totally back you.

[Sunya]

 

 

Richard goes "It's like your that Coke can and realizing your a Coke can".

 

 

i don't think it's that simple. a coke can can just look in the mirror and see that it's a coke can. when i look in the mirror i see my physical body, my features. i guess its a change of perception in that you see yourself, and the world differently. but if it was as simple as you claim everyone would be enlightened (realized) already. why go through all this if its so simple?

 

 

 

WYG, chill.

mantra answered your question about bliss in this thread, read and stop trolling.

why would a video prove about anything? who cares if they are moving around or not? thats not the point of the practice, its a side effect. and i've never had any of those effects. i believe those effects to be blockages clearing out and maybe my practicing of yoga has opened my channels enough so that i don't need those movements, but regardless it serves no purpose to think about such matters.

 

the point i'm trying to make is where does the practice lead to besides feeling good. it seems as if the discussion is going in a positive route and i appreciate you all participating, and Mantra's thoughts.

 

i believe i am understanding, somewhat.

but the main thought i have is that its a 'do it and find out' practice, but that leaves a lot of room for error.. now i'm not saying people should be babysat but a general guideline should be set forth. if you call it the 'end all' to all paths but then lack teachings in moral cultivation, and proper direction on what to aspire to. merely saying 'become one with the tao' isn't enough since people can get easily lost in phenomena, supernatural abilities, astral traveling and never fully shed the ego

Edited December 5, 2007 by mikaelz

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Mantra,

 

Care to share how long it lasted?

[sheng zhen]

 

What is bliss?? Still no answers....

It has been answered many times. Bliss is what is experienced when a block or illusion releases. Its our natural state if it where not for our selfcreated limitations and illusions.

 

It cannot really be explained in words, you need to experience it. If you still look for explenations and definitions, look in the dictionary. If you look for true understanding and experience, do it yourself. Its that simple. Nothing to make a fuzz about.