Spiritual awakening is...

[Owledge]

Spiritual awakening is a movement towards a celebration of the miraculous emergence of everything out of nothing.

 

Thought this was too good to limit to a mere tweet. :-)

( https://twitter.com/Dowlphin/status/784374503073804289 )

 

This was a spontaneous thought while lying on the couch with a full stomach (haha, that's me), based on subtle flackbacks of experiences/feelings I had on ayahuasca.

Basically, when the whole truth is revealed to you, how could you do anything else but capitulate, admit non-understanding, and start to just be?

Edited October 7, 2016 by Owledge

[Karl]

...a nice cup of tea. I love a nice cup of tea with my spiritual awakening so I regard them as virtually the same thing :-)

[Jetsun]

Spiritual awakening is ... not what you think it is

[sagebrush]

how would you know what I think it is?

 

I don't think it  is that....

 

and who can completely offer up the definition of spiritual awakening.

 

maybe today it is awake in

 

or a wake in

 

or away ke...

 

complete non sense.

 

ok its  not in my mind..that is fine

 

I walk the woods today it is misty and chilly...quiet will be there based on experience ....

my mind goes with me.....

 

breezy outside as I look out the window....

 

fall in the air for sure after summer of humidity...

 

how to properly hug a tree....maybe not so proper.

 

hey jetsun did you write the book on spiritual awakening?

 

ultimately no one knows.....ultimately....many paths learned and sign post along the way.....

 

even the loud fluorescent mind in the dark........

 

I once saw an owl on a stop sign years ago in Cardiff ca.  it was late in the evening....

 

I would like to think that that moment was a spiritual awakening.........where not to go...what choice not to take....

[Jetsun]

how would you know what I think it is?

 

I don't think it is that....

 

and who can completely offer up the definition of spiritual awakening.

 

maybe today it is awake in

 

or a wake in

 

or away ke...

 

complete non sense.

 

ok its not in my mind..that is fine

 

I walk the woods today it is misty and chilly...quiet will be there based on experience ....

my mind goes with me.....

 

breezy outside as I look out the window....

 

fall in the air for sure after summer of humidity...

 

how to properly hug a tree....maybe not so proper.

 

hey jetsun did you write the book on spiritual awakening?

 

 

It's not what you or I or anyone thinks it is because it is beyond thought, so whatever anyone thinks it is it isn't that, it can't be pinned down by concepts. I'm not saying what it is though, I'm saying what it's not.

 

But yeah plenty of people have different ideas around the words spiritual awakening, people like Russell Brand talk about it in a very different way than I would in a way I wouldn't describe as awake, so it depends on the context

[Karl]

How lightly you dismiss your own consciousness whilst looking for a different one ;-)

 

Spirit pertain to consciousness and an awakened consciousness does not look for itself, or another kind of itself.

 

If you are still looking then you haven't awakened. To awaken stop looking. Nothing was lost that has always been found, but recognising that you have it proves allusive.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Karl

[Jetsun]

How lightly you dismiss your own consciousness whilst looking for a different one ;-)

 

Spirit pertain to consciousness and an awakened consciousness does not look for itself, or another kind of itself.

 

If you are still looking then you haven't awakened. To awaken stop looking. Nothing was lost that has always been found, but recognising that you have it proves allusive.

Not looking for a different one. Awareness can be aware of consciousness, therefore what it is that is aware must go deeper or be more primordial than consciousness. The first step I would say is awakening to being awareness rather than being trapped in all the transient elements of consciousness

[Karl]

Not looking for a different one. Awareness can be aware of consciousness, therefore what it is that is aware must go deeper or be more primordial than consciousness. The first step I would say is awakening to being awareness rather than being trapped in all the transient elements of consciousness

No, consciousness is an axiomatic corrolary and awareness is where you volitionally place that faculty. There is no 'deeper than consciousnes' nor levels of consciousness. No one is trapped in consciousness, you are trying to escape from the very thing you are seeking and by that method you negate your self.

 

There isn't any mystery to it other than what your mind is imagining.

 

Waking up isn't really waking up, when you are conscious you are conscious of some-thing and that is all. Open your eyes in the morning and you are conscious of the inputs of your sense organs. The eye cannot see itself. Consciousness is the faculty for grasping existence and there is nothing more to learn about it from an epistomological perspective. Open your eyes and there is the world.

 

I don't know why it's like this in terms of seeking something that isn't hidden, or trying to find something that was never lost. I think it's self doubt, that one cannot trust oneself to know the truth and so we spend long ours engaged in a process to uncover the hidden thing that will release us from the doubt. We believe there is some philosophers stone set within us that we cannot touch, but that we must merge with and find unity.

 

I had spent years looking for that thing, lots of time stolen away in a fruitless search for something that was never lost, but the crazy thing is that even when this is discovered there appears no way to transfer that knowledge to others. It can't be done. The self doubt is so complete that the shield requires the maintenance of self doubt and the rejection of anything that tries to puncture it.

 

I think of it as a gold mine in which a miner is furiously digging for the magic nugget, when all around him the walls are solid gold. The miner does not hear or see no matter what proof is offered, he just carries on digging furiously and shaking his head in annoyance of the idiot that 'doesn't understand'. The miner isn't looking for gold, he is looking for 'doubtless gold', it isn't an existent thing, it's a conceptual anomaly, a fools errand, but so unsure of himself that he is unable to determine what gold is, he is forced to carry on hopelessly trying to discover what is already abundant.

 

I offer these questions again in hope: where am I ? How do I know it ? What should I do ?

 

It's those questions that will lead you to banish self doubt completely, but I can't stop you digging in your mine, I'm just saying that you can know Gold, that there is no need to doubt your self about knowing it. That it isn't hidden from you, it is not lost, it's only your mind that doubts itself.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Karl

[Marblehead]

Spiritual awakening is ... not what you think it is

 

I don't think.

[Karl]

I don't think.

You don't think you think ? Or you think you don't think ?

[Marblehead]

You don't think you think ? Or you think you don't think ?

 

Either/or / neither/nor.

[Karl]

Either/or / neither/nor.

Poke a wound and make it sore.

[Jetsun]

No, consciousness is an axiomatic corrolary and awareness is where you volitionally place that faculty. There is no 'deeper than consciousnes' nor levels of consciousness. No one is trapped in consciousness, you are trying to escape from the very thing you are seeking and by that method you negate your self.

 

There isn't any mystery to it other than what your mind is imagining.

 

Waking up isn't really waking up, when you are conscious you are conscious of some-thing and that is all. Open your eyes in the morning and you are conscious of the inputs of your sense organs. The eye cannot see itself. Consciousness is the faculty for grasping existence and there is nothing more to learn about it from an epistomological perspective. Open your eyes and there is the world.

 

There is nothing more to learn about it from an epistomological perspective, but there is a huge amount to learn from an experiential perspective. There is what Buddhists call emptiness or the void, which is "deeper" or primary to the consciousness of the senses or of thought. 

 

The mystery is what awareness really is, and who or what we really are. 

 

Most of us spend our lives fixed on the senses and reflections in consciousness, fixated on thoughts and our ideas as a means to avoid falling into this void as a means to try to maintain our ego, like a puppy desperately trying to stay afloat in a big tank of water. 

[rene]

I don't know why it's like this in terms of seeking something that isn't hidden, or trying to find something that was never lost. I think it's self doubt, that one cannot trust oneself to know the truth and so we spend long ours engaged in a process to uncover the hidden thing that will release us from the doubt. We believe there is some philosophers stone set within us that we cannot touch, but that we must merge with and find unity.

 

I had spent years looking for that thing, lots of time stolen away in a fruitless search for something that was never lost, but the crazy thing is that even when this is discovered there appears no way to transfer that knowledge to others. It can't be done.The self doubt is so complete that the shield requires the maintenance of self doubt and the rejection of anything that tries to puncture it.

Emphasis mine.

 

You are right, it can't be done.

 

It may be self doubt as you suggest. It also might be that any opportunity to overcome doubt is buried deep by the vested interests of purveyors of miner's shovels.

 

Edit to add:

 

That said, I also believe that most teachers have good intentions and truly want to help seekers find what they seek... which means either they (the teachers) do not understand these things, or, they do know this cant be conveyed but still wish to help the seeker find peace (or whatever) on their path... and what could be wrong with that?

 

Most just do the best they can with what they have; or so it seems to me.

 

warm regards

Edited October 8, 2016 by rene

[Karl]

There is nothing more to learn about it from an epistomological perspective, but there is a huge amount to learn from an experiential perspective. There is what Buddhists call emptiness or the void, which is "deeper" or primary to the consciousness of the senses or of thought. 

 

The mystery is what awareness really is, and who or what we really are. 

 

Most of us spend our lives fixed on the senses and reflections in consciousness, fixated on thoughts and our ideas as a means to avoid falling into this void as a means to try to maintain our ego, like a puppy desperately trying to stay afloat in a big tank of water.

 

We don't all spend our time like that. This is the 'digging for Gold' because you doubt you can know what gold is. We don't experience consciousness itself, consciousness is purely what permits us to experience things. You are talking about focus of awareness, in other words choosing to focus or not to focus.

 

Now, you ask the question 'what is awareness' 'what we are' ? And these are non relational question pertaining to self inquiry. These questions lead to circular reasoning which is why I said to answer 'where am I ? How do I know it ? What should I do. This removes the direct emphasis on self. Trying to open consciousness with consciousness is definitely a fools errand.

 

Awareness, at least in metaphysical terms, is easy to answer, it is the senses either extroverted or introverted. In epistemology awareness is simply the active expression of consciousness.

 

So, exploring the interior is fine, but we need a flashlight. We need comprehension, a certain amount of knowledge before the experience will bring results, otherwise we are stirring up nothing but the imagination or emotions-and as cool as that can be, it isn't knowledge and you explicitly stated a question about awareness and self-because you recognise these two concepts, it is proof that you actually do know, but the internal integrations are ungrounded.

 

The way of exploring introspectively without aid of the right tools is somewhat like a child scribbling on a pad something that looks like words, then they ask their parents to read the story. They haven't yet made the cognitive connection to symbolic concretes and so they copy the general form of writing in the belief that this will reveal the magic words to them.

 

I can fire this stuff off all day everyday because I know, it isn't the kind of know which is feeling, nor 'I read it out of a book kind of knowing'. That kind of thing is either whim, or memory; it is false knowledge.

 

This talk of primary to consciousness will just get you to infinite regression, you are a smart guy you can figure that out, if there is a something prior to consciousness- let's call it a void-then there is something prior to the void and so on and so on. If you say that the void, Brahman or whatever IS it, then there is no reason that the consciousness can't be IT, and as you already are conscious, then we can stop looking for anything beyond it.

 

However, if you have self doubt, then there is a reason, there are many ungrounded concepts (floating abstractions) in your mind that aren't secured to reality. Some people cannot cope with reality, I understand that and it's not my purpose to insist that they must, we all have to choose these things. So we may choose to ground the abstractions, the curtains are drawn, the illusions and stories vanish, the old play ground gets locked and shackled and we can't get back in. Even if we want to get back, once we know reality we cannot and I think that can be a terrifying prospect- rather than the void that you are trying to run to, it is reality that you are running from. All your searches drive you further from knowing reality because you aren't intending to find it.

[Karl]

Emphasis mine.

You are right, it can't be done.

It may be self doubt as you suggest. It also might be that any opportunity to overcome doubt is buried deep by the vested interests of purveyors of miner's shovels.

In terms of modern education, media and literature I think this is true. Modern education seems purposefully designed to destroy thinkers. The upshot is that bright people prevented from thinking are like fleas that jump against the lid of a box, when the lid is removed the fleas only jump to the height of the original lid. Where fleas aren't damaged by this process, unfortunately humans are. It's mental torture right through the formative ages when the mind is malleable. Those that can't jump higher than the lid leave relatively unscathed, good little worker drone citizens fit for factories, offices and civic duties.

[rene]

In terms of modern education, media and literature I think this is true...

Interesting tangent. My post was referring to religious/spiritual traditions, however. Also, fyi, I added to my post after you quoted it. All good.

[Owledge]

@rene

Just because it can't be done doesn't mean it can't happen. ;-)

[Karl]

Interesting tangent. My post was referring to religious/spiritual traditions, however. Also, fyi, I added to my post after you quoted it. All good.

That's choice though. Its like alcohol, you can choose to drink or abstain.

[rene]

@rene

Just because it can't be done doesn't mean it can't happen. ;-)

Yep! And that's exactly how it happens! (-:

[Jetsun]

Awareness, at least in metaphysical terms, is easy to answer, it is the senses either extroverted or introverted. In epistemology awareness is simply the active expression of consciousness.

 

 

 

When you examine the space of awareness in your own experience you can't actually say that it is introverted or extroverted, active or passive, you can't find where it begins or ends, you can't find an edge, or an age or a sex, its impossible to say anything about it or pin it down in any way with the mind. All the content of consciousness arises within this space of awareness, so whatever is in consciousness can't define awareness, as consciousness is the content and awareness the context.

 

But what can be realised experientially is that you actually are this space of awareness, in the sense it is your deeper identity because it is the only constant thing in your life, everything else is transitory including all the ideas and concepts about who we are. Such a realisation is beyond the realm of thought or the conceptual mind because thought arises within it so can't possibly define it. Hence why I said in the beginning it is beyond what anyone things about it. 

 

There is a Pali Sutra where the Buddha goes to sit by the river Ganges as a boy and then later goes back to to sit at the same spot as a old man. In the second visit it is the same river in the same spot but everything had changed, the water, the environment, the body and mind of the Buddha, all changed, yet there was one constant.

[rene]

That's choice though. Its like alcohol, you can choose to drink or abstain.

Is it choice? I'm not so sure. It might be that we each sense something within (to varying degrees) and are compelled (again, in varying degrees) to make sense of it... and the journey begins, eh? To find that which resonates. Blessed are those who find what they seek, or at least their version of what works for them. (-:

[Karl]

When you examine the space of awareness in your own experience you can't actually say that it is introverted or extroverted, active or passive, you can't find where it begins or ends, you can't find an edge, or an age or a sex, its impossible to say anything about it or pin it down in any way with the mind. All the content of consciousness arises within this space of awareness, so whatever is in consciousness can't define awareness, as consciousness is the content and awareness the context.

 

But what can be realised experientially is that you actually are this space of awareness, in the sense it is your deeper identity because it is the only constant thing in your life, everything else is transitory including all the ideas and concepts about who we are. Such a realisation is beyond the realm of thought or the conceptual mind because thought arises within it so can't possibly define it. Hence why I said in the beginning it is beyond what anyone things about it. 

 

There is a Pali Sutra where the Buddha goes to sit by the river Ganges as a boy and then later goes back to to sit at the same spot as a old man. In the second visit it is the same river in the same spot but everything had changed, the water, the environment, the body and mind of the Buddha, all changed, yet there was one constant.

You cannot examine awareness, all you can do is point it at what that you wish to examine. All consciousness is an active process, but thinking is optional, it is entirely volitional.

 

Consciousness is not the content, it is the faculty to grasp existence. Unless existence is being grasped then consciousness is absent- we are said to be unconscious or incapable of consciousness.

 

The fact that you sense a 'deeper identity' is another one of your levels. That you grasp identity as a concept proves the formula :

 

Existence is identity;consciousness is identification

 

These transitory thoughts I have already described as floating abstractions and by asking the question 'who is it that feels such and such' or 'who am I' it sets off a mental chain reaction which results in an circular argument. This is because the concepts and integrations are bad and have not been anchored in reality.

 

The Buddah by the river is the philosophy of the Skeptics. Its not simple to debunk because we would have to approach fundamentals and concept formations. It would take too long to do this here, but it's possible.

[Karl]

Is it choice? I'm not so sure. It might be that we each sense something within (to varying degrees) and are compelled (again, in varying degrees) to make sense of it... and the journey begins, eh? To find that which resonates. Blessed are those who find what they seek, or at least their version of what works for them. (-:

Everything is a choice and must be a choice. I find it difficult to believe anyone could stumble upon knowledge, but certainly there maybe some very strange routes to getting there.

[silent thunder]

awakening is a fluid verb... a process

 

there is no noun to it, no destination.

 

walking the path, is not knowing the path

she abides... experiential, not intellectual

where he flows, effortless, not seeking

abiding

being

now