Mair 3:2

[Marblehead]

A cook was cutting up an ox for Lord Wenhui.

 

Wherever

 

His hand touched,
His shoulder leaned,
His foot stepped,
His knee nudged,

 

the flesh would fall away with a swishing sound.  Each slice of the cleaver was right in tune, zip zap!  He danced in rhythm to "The Mulberry Grove;" moved in concert with the strains of "The Managing Chief."

 

"Ah, wonderful!" said Lord Wenhui, "that skill can attain such heights!"

 

The cook put down his cleaver and responded, "What your servant loves is the Way, which goes beyond mere skill.  When I first began to cut oxen, what I saw was nothing but whole oxen.  After three years, I no longer saw whole oxen.  Today, I meet the ox with my spirit rather than looking at it with my eyes.  My sense organs stop functioning and my spirit moves as it pleases.  In accord with the natural grain, I slice at the great crevices, lead the blade through the great cavities.  Following its inherent structure, I never encounter the slightest obstacle even where the veins and arteries come together or where the ligaments and tendons join, much less from obvious big bones.  A good cook changes his cleaver once a year because he chops.  An ordinary cook changes his cleaver once a month because he hacks.  Now I've been using my cleaver for nineteen years and have cut up thousands of oxen with it, but the blade is still as fresh as though it had just come from the grindstone.  Between the joints there are spaces, but the edge of the blade has no thickness.  Since I am inserting something without any thickness into an empty space, there will certainly be lots of room for the blade to play around in.  That's why the blade is still as fresh as though it had just come from the grindstone.  Nonetheless, whenever I come to a complicated spot and see that it will be difficult to handle, I cautiously restrain myself, focus my vision, and slow my motion.  With an imperceptible movement of the cleaver, plop! and the flesh is already separated, like a clump of earth collapsing to the ground.  I stand there holding the cleaver in my hand, look all around me with complacent satisfaction, then I wipe off the cleaver and store it away."

 

"Wonderful!" said Lord Wenhui.  "From hearing the words of the cook, I have learned how to nourish life."

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

"Wonderful!" said Lord Wenhui.  "From hearing the words of the cook, I have learned how to nourish life."

 

And how would that be?

[Marblehead]

And how would that be?

 

Ha!  I will be needing insight from others for this one.

 

The best I can do is to associate what the cook does to how we walk our path of life.

 

That is, by taking the path of least resistance.  Avoiding the hard places that will obstruct our path.

 

Also, by seeing with our spirit rather than the eyes.  Our eyes open us up for temptations; our spirit (Intuition) is a much better guide in most cases.

[Stosh]

I think nourish could and should be replaced with 'minister' or 'expedite', but wouldnt argue with the opinion already expressed. One could also construe it to suggest ambivalence , neutrality , or passivity,, but those would require one to overlook that he actively exerts his influence. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Stosh

[Stosh]

I wonder if this additionally implies that the spirit can animate the flesh , simply because theres a frictionless relationship,a concurrencey ,, a symbiotic relationship of mind and matter. No work being actually done no "blockage". dunno ,, but it strikes me as a fun speculation.

[Marblehead]

You are way over my head now Stosh.

[Stosh]

Mine too..

It goes like this, consciouness is obviously a possibility, in this universe. Its associated with matter, in the form of brains. Consciousness must be a higher order natural principle which matter may manifest.

Brains facilitate animation ,but how could this principle make matter do things?

In the story the guy butchers but exerts no effort. The intent would be all that was required ,since no work was done ,,,in a situation not requiring any work intent alone would effect events.

Hence, no chi blockage,,, and thy will be done.

For all I know it could be the same thing that makes brownian motion go.,and predicates radioactive decay.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

As far as is known, only biologically living organisms have the capacity for consciousness.  So far as is known this exist only on Earth.  Proof of its (consciousness) existence elsewhere in the universe is totally lacking.

 

 

Ah!, the butcher.  Well, he first had to be in possession of a knife that was capable of doing the job.  Second, he had to learn how to allow the blade to travel the path of least resistance.  The blade is not a living object, it is an extension of the butcher's will.

 

Yes, I suppose we could say that from this point intent is all that is needed.  The means and resources are available for the intent to be realized.   This would be wu wei, wouldn't it?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Marblehead

[Stosh]

As far as is known, only biologically living organisms have the capacity for consciousness.  So far as is known this exist only on Earth.  Proof of its (consciousness) existence elsewhere in the universe is totally lacking.

 

 

Ah!, the butcher.  Well, he first had to be in possession of a knife that was capable of doing the job.  Second, he had to learn how to allow the blade to travel the path of least resistance.  The blade is not a living object, it is an extension of the butcher's will.

 

Yes, I suppose we could say that from this point intent is all that is needed.  The means and resources are available for the intent to be realized.   This would be wu wei, wouldn't it?

Wu wei (traditional Chinese: 無爲; simplified Chinese: 无为; pinyin: wú wéi; a variant and derivatives: Japanese: 無為(むい); Korean: 無爲(무위); Vietnamese: Vô vi; English, lit. non-doing) is an important concept in Taoism that literally means non-action or non-doing.

 

I figure it fits with that there definition. But Im personally not really certain wei wu wei is a legit , thing , behavior , or attitude, as people connect the term- to a certain kind of virtue set. I'll leave that for Mr. Tt to address the traditional view , (but answered if you were trying to get what point I was saying. )

[Stosh]

As far as the consciousness thing goes, ,, I guess I am extending an unproven idea.  

Anywhere in the universe, as far as we know , if you assemble the situation in which fire can happen, you'll get fire. 

The entire universe isnt on fire, we figure, because the conditions don't fit. Similarly,

Assemble a baby and a consciousness is assembled along with the matter, ,, I suppose one could imagine a 'divine spark' being handed down, but that seems pretty imaginative to me. 

But on the teenie tiny scale Ive read some stuff that suggests that in some circumstances theres an element of non-immediacy,or undefined-ness. In a newtonian world how can one explain if the fire didnt happen sometimes , or , more confusingly , if the fire didnt happen initially, and then happened later? 

I'm not suggesting rocks are smart , but Im playing with an idea that consciousness has a simple basis connecting what we physically do to what we consciously intend and maybe on the submolecular level , organized intention could make things happen., so long as ,, they were potentially possible. ( the remaining intention force, being disorganized ,would account for things which happen with randomness- more simply put,  our intentions would have effect because they were not neutralized by disorganization ) 

 

Im not writing a paper on this , its just fun speculation.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Wu wei (traditional Chinese: 無爲; simplified Chinese: 无为; pinyin: wú wéi; a variant and derivatives: Japanese: 無為(むい); Korean: 無爲(무위); Vietnamese: Vô vi; English, lit. non-doing) is an important concept in Taoism that literally means non-action or non-doing.

 

I figure it fits with that there definition. But Im personally not really certain wei wu wei is a legit , thing , behavior , or attitude, as people connect the term- to a certain kind of virtue set. I'll leave that for Mr. Tt to address the traditional view , (but answered if you were trying to get what point I was saying. )

 

Actually, IMO, wei wu wei is the more important concept to understand.  I think that wu wei is just one aspect of wie wu wei.

 

In other words, most people are doing something most of their awakened life.  This doing is the "action" part of "non-action".

 

That is to say, wu wei is the non-action part of wie wu wei.

 

How long do we sit on our behind and do nothing?  Sees that some people have perfected the art.  I'm not one.  But I do try to do things in a manner consistent with the butcher.  Not always successful.  Bones keep getting in the way.

[Marblehead]

( the remaining intention force, being disorganized ,would account for things which happen with randomness- more simply put,  our intentions would have effect because they were not neutralized by disorganization ) 

 

 

Did the earthquake intend to kill 6,000 people?  No.  Action without intention.  No consciousness needed.  Only cause and effect.

[Stosh]

Did the earthquake intend to kill 6,000 people?  No.  Action without intention.  No consciousness needed.  Only cause and effect.

I'm just giving the force a name , we could call it abracadabra.

Abracadabra would be random outside a brain.

The earthquake involved forces though , which would still be that which they are now, and operate by cause and effect newtownianly. 

If the earthquake however by miraculous!! event , happened to shake the rubble into the form of a cat , it would start hunting mice, because it was a new organized center of abracadabra.

Heck we could even call it chi !

Aside from the bias imparted by a mind , the rocks have no desire to crush or not crush people. Theres no intent to create the cat or not create the cat.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Agree Stosh.  Yes, it would be weird if the rubble from an earthquake formed into an image of a cat.  I can't imagine such a thing happening.  And I have never seen Elvis in any cloud or group of clouds.

 

But cause and effect we can explain if we have enough data.

 

We might even be able to relate cause and effect to the butcher.  The people needed food, the butcher cut up the ox.

[Stosh]

Agree Stosh.  Yes, it would be weird if the rubble from an earthquake formed into an image of a cat.  I can't imagine such a thing happening.  And I have never seen Elvis in any cloud or group of clouds.

 

But cause and effect we can explain if we have enough data.

 

We might even be able to relate cause and effect to the butcher.  The people needed food, the butcher cut up the ox.

So can cause and effect as you understand it now, explain how it is that your consciousness can move your finger?

I think not, unless one construes it that they actually have no free will, (which doesn't fit into cause and effect). 

( but I didnt say image of a cat , I was saying that from inorganic materials fabricated the creature which we call a functional cat.. modern science suggests that from inorganic stuff the parts of new life are made, a chicken is a complicated pile of materials which has no special virtue granting life to the chicken other than its organization, equating to the low odds event of rubble being assembled , and yet the chicken , simply an assemblage of materials , may lay an egg-- I think youd agree that the components of any chicken are recycled , it has some consciousness , and the egg compiles yet more materials to become a functional chicken ,, basically)

 

Ive tried to explain the idea , I think I did just fine , if at this juncture you still wish to balk at it , thats fine , I'm done dividing this down. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Okay.  A female chicken lays eggs.  Female humans don't.

[Stosh]

Exactly, so the butcher has to .

[oak]

This video was posted this week by "rainbowvein" on "what are you watching on youtube".

 

Thought it would be suitable to post it here too.

 

[Marblehead]

I've seen that somewhere before.  I don't often say this but:  That's amazing!

 

Yeah, it fits in with the chapter/section.  Knowing without knowledge?  Intuition?  Feeling?

[oak]

I would call it knowing by sensitivity like Lord Wenhui's cook. Truly amazing, and it seems like it's something achievable like the young man in the above video demonstrates.

[Lost in Translation]

On 10/17/2016 at 1:49 AM, Marblehead said:

Nonetheless, whenever I come to a complicated spot and see that it will be difficult to handle, I cautiously restrain myself, focus my vision, and slow my motion.

 

It's an old thread, but this exact story came up recently in another thread so it deserves a bump.

[Marblehead]

9 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

It's an old thread, but this exact story came up recently in another thread so it deserves a bump.

Yep.  And it repeats itself randomly in our everyday life.  Many things we do in life are intuitional and nearly instinctual.  Then something unusual happens.  Now we must "restrain our self, focus our attention, and slow our motion" so that we have the time to make the best choice, and take the best action.