Fun With Elements

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Ok, so I am talking Elements here, yes in the 5 element theory fashion.

 

Immediately this raises the following warnings:

1.  Because things people normally tell you about "playing with elements" is that it is extremely dangerous.

 

But, cheer up.  We are not "playing" with the elements here... It is more of just a problem with Elements.

 

What if you have WAY tOo much METAL???

 

Those familiar with more complicated things like Ba Zi or Qi Men Dun Jia realize this leads largely to:

1. Shocking speech.

2. Unpopular behaviour

3. Unlucky Investments

4. Poor Choices.

 

How is this remedied?  Do we have a person that knows about this?

 

As i practice, I recognized I have become more balanced... Just a thought.

[Mudfoot]

My teacher always said that if you do wuxing qigong you should do all of them, balanced, if you had a problem. In the end, it is difficult to say which one the root of the inbalance comes from.

This is the opinion of a man who also was an acupuncturist specialized in five-element theory.

 

He did not find the dispersing and tonifying thought related to acupuncture relevant to qigong.

 

Naturally someone will come along and recommend another strategy soon. :-)

[Aetherous]

My teacher always said that if you do wuxing qigong you should do all of them, balanced, if you had a problem. In the end, it is difficult to say which one the root of the inbalance comes from.

 

When one element has an issue, at least two others do as well. In reality, all five (or six) are in some way the cause and the effect.

[Nungali]

Fun with the elements ;

 

 

 

 

[KuroShiro]

Ok, so I am talking Elements here, yes in the 5 element theory fashion.

 

Immediately this raises the following warnings:

1.  Because things people normally tell you about "playing with elements" is that it is extremely dangerous.

 

But, cheer up.  We are not "playing" with the elements here... It is more of just a problem with Elements.

 

What if you have WAY tOo much METAL???

 

Those familiar with more complicated things like Ba Zi or Qi Men Dun Jia realize this leads largely to:

1. Shocking speech.

2. Unpopular behaviour

3. Unlucky Investments

4. Poor Choices.

 

How is this remedied?  Do we have a person that knows about this?

 

As i practice, I recognized I have become more balanced... Just a thought.

 

What do you practice? I'm still in the process of trying to understand 5 element theory in Classical Chinese Medicine, don't know how it translates to Qigong.

I practice Zhan Zhuang guided by the books of Master Lam Kam Chuen. Z.Z. postures seem to be related to the 5 elements but unfortunately that isn't mentioned in the books.

 

For harmonizing and balancing the elements the best option I know of is through Classical Acupuncture.

There's also elements within elements but I don't know if there's any acupuncturist alive who is able to discern that.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

What do you practice?

 

I was reading something on BaZi and as far as I see it is an strong Metal "day master" or yin metal.

Edited October 21, 2016 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Miffymog]

I practice Zhan Zhuang guided by the books of Master Lam Kam Chuen. Z.Z. postures seem to be related to the 5 elements but unfortunately that isn't mentioned in the books.

 

 

Many years ago I came across a website that related the 5 positions in LKC's book to the five elements in the following way

 

1st position = water

2nd position = fire

3rd position = wood

4th position = earth

5th position = metal

 

I've absolutely no idea how accurate these are but if I'm doing the healing sounds while doing ZZ, then I hold the 1st position while making the sound for water etc. Although the order I follow is metal, water, wood, fire, earth.

 

But I hardly ever do that so I'm not too bothered if I'm getting things totally wrong.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Miffymog

[KuroShiro]

Many years ago I came across a website that related the 5 positions in LKC's book to the five elements in the following way

 

1st position = water

2nd position = fire

3rd position = wood

4th position = earth

5th position = metal

 

I've absolutely no idea how accurate these are but if I'm do the healing sounds while doing ZZ, then I hold the 1st position while making the sound for water etc. Although the order I follow is metal, water, earth, fire, earth.

 

But I hardly ever do that so I'm not too bothered if I'm getting things totally wrong.

 

Thank you.

The positions are from The Way of Energy? I don't have the books with me but I remember the 3rd position in TWoE is the 2nd in The Way of Healing. Don't know why it was changed.

[Aetherous]

Maybe standing represents a single element.

...

Maybe it's good to consider what the elements represent...there are different lenses to view them with.

One lens is: wood ascends, fire radiates out, earth harmonizes, metal descends, water consolidates in. So there is up/down, in/out, and balancing.

Another lens could be: wood moves emotions, fire uplifts, earth grounds, metal penetrates, and water descends.

...

People just make up five element designations for standing. It's not like the practices come from the heavenly realms.

If it's based on solid theory, if it actually works according to the theory or lens you're using, I'd say that's a good version of the five elements.

[Andrei]

 

One lens is: wood ascends, fire radiates out, earth harmonizes, metal descends, water consolidates in.

 

I would say:

 

Fire rises (ascends)

Wood spreads (radiates)

Earth balances (harmonize)

Metal solidify (consolidates) think of ice or stone or crystals

Water flow (descends) think of what Lao Zi said about water in Dao De Jing

 

Fire and Water are antagonists (rise - descend)

Wood and Metal are antagonists (spread - consolidate)

[Aetherous]

Just a different lens. Which way we look at it depends entirely on what we desire to cultivate with five element practices.

[Nungali]

here is a 'lens'   ;    take ore (earth ) ,  blast it  ( fire)  and you get a 'blank' (metal )  , hammer the metal on an anvil ( earth ), quench it in trough (water ), pump the bellows (air ) put it back in furnace (fire), hammer the metal on an anvil ( earth ), quench it in trough (water ), pump the bellows (air ) put it back in furnace (fire) ... continue in cycles  =   sword ( strong metal fortified by all elements )

[Miffymog]

Maybe standing represents a single element.

 

Yep - I'd be happy to agree with that

 

 

Thank you.

The positions are from The Way of Energy? I don't have the books with me but I remember the 3rd position in TWoE is the 2nd in The Way of Healing. Don't know why it was changed.

 

The ones I've listed are all from 'The Way of Energy'

 

 

Slightly deviating from the five elements and focusing on ZZ at bit more, the following link gives a description of the various stances and what their purposes are which I find quite helpful. It may help link the stances to the five elements a bit better ...

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/41801-qigong-sensitivity-training-using-yi-quan/?hl=yiquan_1

[KuroShiro]

I would say:

 

Fire rises (ascends)

Wood spreads (radiates)

Earth balances (harmonize)

Metal solidify (consolidates) think of ice or stone or crystals

Water flow (descends) think of what Lao Zi said about water in Dao De Jing

 

Fire and Water are antagonists (rise - descend)

Wood and Metal are antagonists (spread - consolidate)

 

Checked The Way of Healing:

 

"Metal is the most dense of all forms of matter. Its characteristic motion is the movement of energy inward."

 

"Water energy descends."

 

"Wood symbolizes energy that expands outward like a tree."

 

"Fire is the radiating energy that gives rise to the emotional, mental and spiritual power of all the other organs."

 

"Earth energy moves horizontally. Its directions are lateral and circular (...)"

[Mudfoot]

I found the quotes from Hong Fan used by Rochat de la Vallee in the book Wu xing useful, they really go well with the wuxing IMA that I do. I would add the quotes here, but I had only my translation available and translating them back to english would not work that well.

 

The relevant question is, can you feel the elemental process, the change or movement.

[Andrei]

here is a 'lens' ; take ore (earth ) , blast it ( fire) and you get a 'blank' (metal ) , hammer the metal on an anvil ( earth ), quench it in trough (water ), pump the bellows (air ) put it back in furnace (fire), hammer the metal on an anvil ( earth ), quench it in trough (water ), pump the bellows (air ) put it back in furnace (fire) ... continue in cycles = sword ( strong metal fortified by all elements )

Yes this is real Neidan. But people have to understand the metafors behind elements. All alchemy started with sword making and then the same principles applied to spirit making.

 

Cinnabar is the mercury ore, if you take cinnabar and put into a cauldron and heat it it will turn into mercury.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Andrei

[Nungali]

Yes this is real Neidan. But people have to understand the metafors behind elements. All alchemy started with sword making and then the same principles applied to spirit making.

 

Cinnabar is the mercury ore, if you take cinnabar and put into a cauldron and heat it it will turn into mercury.

 

  ......   and toxic gasses  . 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Nungali