Juicing and empty feeling

[Orion]

No, I'm not talking about Wu Wei

 

I've never been a big fan of raw diets and I've never done juicing before, but I thought I would give it a try just to help add more enzyme activity to my body. I'm not doing a fast or special diet... I'm still eating meat and other rich foods as well. I've just decided to increase my veggie intake in the form of juice and more salads.

 

I'm finding that there's something about drinking the juices that is making me feel more empty in my center, kind of like a weakness. It's not due to reduced calories, it's more of an experience in my qi. My absorption seems to be fine and my bowel movements are normal, but I have this empty feeling. My pulses are normal too.

 

It's a vague feeling of something being stripped away... like an insulation. My insides feel "bare".

 

I know this is a really unclear explanation but I'm having trouble putting my finger on it. In TCM they say to avoid raw because it's cold and damp in nature, both of which injure spleen. I've considered that maybe it's something to do with that... but it's not like I'm terribly deficient in the first place. And we're not talking insane amounts of raw here, just 8oz of juice a day (that I make myself) and maybe more servings of veggies with my other meals. I add warming spices to the juice and my other meals are hot.

 

Thoughts on this?

[Aetherous]

I think I understand this feeling you're talking about...having felt it as well.

I attributed it to the amount of readily available sugars in the juice, that the body wasn't used to...I felt like maybe it's an immediate blood sugar spike and then drop or something.

But it could also be that juices are cleansing, so they're clearing the area out...in which case, maybe it's just a new sensation that the body has to get used to.

Honestly have no idea, or even if we have experienced the same thing.

[Kar3n]

What fruits and vegetables are you juicing?

[Orion]

I'm doing carrot, beet, kale, lemon, ginger, and parsley.

 

I attributed it to the amount of readily available sugars in the juice, that the body wasn't used to...I felt like maybe it's an immediate blood sugar spike and then drop or something.

Honestly have no idea, or even if we have experienced the same thing.

 

I considered that maybe it's a blood sugar thing, but I don't see how the sugar content could be that high. If I do one carrot, half a beet, and half a lemon, that's barely any sugar.

 

Although... I do it first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. That's how they say to do it, but maybe that causes a blood sugar spike right at the start of my day.

 

Glad you at least know what I'm talking about. I'm going to try it for about a week or so just to see if that weak feeling passes. If it does then maybe it's some kind of cleansing effect.

[Kar3n]

Root vegetables like carrots and beets have a higher glycemic index and a lower glycemic load that usually makes them decent complex carbs because of the fiber they provide. I am not certain that juicing root vegetables provides as much fiber, so I am lead to believe that the absorption rate is pretty quick on an empty stomach resulting in what you are feeling.

 

It might be worth experimenting for a few days to a week by omitting the beet and using an apple instead. It will still provide sweetness and has a lower glycemic index.

[dust]

Juicing, or smoothies? Smoothies would be much better.

 

As Kar3n says. Fruit and veg are important not just because of vitamins and 'clean' and 'complex' carbs, but because of fibre and phytonutrients/phytochemicals. Phytos aren't essential but usually beneficial, and it is generally held that fibre is way lacking in most diets these days. When juicing, fibre and many phytos are lost.

 

From the fibre article:

 

"The best available estimates suggest that those ancestors obtained about 35% of their dietary energy from fats, 35% from carbohydrates and 30% from protein. Saturated fats contributed approximately 7.5% total energy and harmful trans-fatty acids contributed negligible amounts. Polyunsaturated fat intake was high, with n-6: n-3 approaching 2:1 ( v.10:1 today). Cholesterol consumption was substantial, perhaps 480 mg/d. Carbohydrate came from uncultivated fruits and vegetables, approximately 50% energy intake as compared with the present level of 16% energy intake for Americans. High fruit and vegetable intake and minimal grain and dairy consumption made ancestral diets base-yielding, unlike today’s acid-producing pattern. Honey comprised 2–3 % energy intake as compared with the 15 % added sugars contribute currently. Fibre consumption was high, perhaps 100 g/d, but phytate content was minimal. Vitamin, mineral and (probably) phytochemical intake was typically 1.5 to eight times that of today"

Edited October 28, 2016 by dustybeijing

[Orion]

Right now I can't handle a lot of fibre because my bowels were damaged by a serious illness. I'm juicing the veggies I can't eat whole in order to get the nutrition, while eating others that I can handle as salads. So I'm still getting some roughage in my diet.

 

Beets and carrots having a higher glycemic index makes sense. That would mean I have been starting my day with an insulin spike followed by a crash. Oopsies...

 

Beets are so nutritious though

[Taomeow]

I'm doing carrot, beet, kale, lemon, ginger, and parsley.

 

 

 

 

You need to hold off on beets in your juice.  Beet juice must never be consumed right away, unlike all others.  It has to be left standing in an open container for a minimum of an hour, or longer.  No time to explain, but try it and see if it changes anything.  

[blackstar212]

Beet juice gave me a "high" feeling. A rush after I drank it. I only eat beets in whole form now.

 

Try juicing greens with your carrots. That will give you many phytochemicals which are essential to good health.

[LAOLONG]

☆

Edited November 9, 2016 by SHINTO

[Andrei]

I wouldn't do juicing, I would do smoothies just because they have the fiber that does not allow the insulin spike too high.

Also I would combine dry vegetables/fruits with oily ones like avocado or banana which will give a satiating effect. You may even add coconut or just coconut oil. If you have problems with your colon, use slimy things like okra, grounded flax or kefir to rebuild the colon lining. Also sulfurous vegetables are useful to create a bio film in the colon for beneficial flora, they are called pre-biotics: garlic, onion cooked, leeks.

[Kar3n]

There are some pretty good powdered veggie drink mixes you can pick up at places like GNC or Sprouts that might have less sugar in them, so that might be an option. It is not the same as juicing, I know, I do love it and probably should do it more often.

 

Thanks for the inspiration.
 

Hope everything works out for you.

[Orion]

You need to hold off on beets in your juice.  Beet juice must never be consumed right away, unlike all others.  It has to be left standing in an open container for a minimum of an hour, or longer.  No time to explain, but try it and see if it changes anything.  

 

Interesting about letting it stand for a while. I tried to web search for info on that but couldn't find any info. Is it something to do with the oxalic acid content?

 

I removed beet yesterday, and then re-added it today just to see. It's definitely the main culprit for why I feel this way.

 

Today I made: celery, beet, carrot, kale, peppers (3 different colours), lemon, green apple. It came out to about 16 oz total.

 

I wouldn't do juicing, I would do smoothies just because they have the fiber that does not allow the insulin spike too high.

Also I would combine dry vegetables/fruits with oily ones like avocado or banana which will give a satiating effect. You may even add coconut or just coconut oil. If you have problems with your colon, use slimy things like okra, grounded flax or kefir to rebuild the colon lining. Also sulfurous vegetables are useful to create a bio film in the colon for beneficial flora, they are called pre-biotics: garlic, onion cooked, leeks.

 

As mentioned previously, I can't do fiber due to the state of my bowels. In fact, I might have to stop eating the small salads I've been making because today there was blood in my stool... bummer.

 

Good idea, adding avocado or banana... I suppose I could do the juicing part and then add it to a blender with the fatty fruits.

 

As for demulcents (slimy things)... they wreak havoc, so I avoid them. Flax is a no go, as is kefir due to casein in the dairy, and even water kefir has too much sugar. I guess I could do coconut kefir but the probiotic content just isn't the same.

[Taomeow]

Interesting about letting it stand for a while. I tried to web search for info on that but couldn't find any info. Is it something to do with the oxalic acid content?

 

I removed beet yesterday, and then re-added it today just to see. It's definitely the main culprit for why I feel this way.

 

 

I thought so!   

 

This information comes from one of my Russian herbal encyclopedias (I have three), and the authors merely state that beet juice will cause intolerance and eventually total inability to drink it if consumed right away, and that when it stands in an open container for a while, at least an hour, some unwanted components will get removed (probably degraded by oxygen, and maybe light exposure, and maybe some of them are volatile too) and it will be safe and healthy to drink.  I don't think it's oxalic acid though, It appears to be pretty stable and, in doses you get from the juice, very useful.  It is toxic primarily to cancer cells, not to healthy cells (unless perhaps you overdo it by juicing, like, ten pounds of beets in one day.)  Which is why many folk and naturopathic traditions include beet juice in their anticancer protocols.  

 

Beet juice is very helpful in many conditions, it can cure anemia if taken daily for at least a month, it slowly dissolves gallstones (with oxalic acid my guess would be...  takes its time, up to six months, but removes them painlessly and radically), so with the above precaution, you can probably try to reintroduce it.  

 

After many years in the trenches, I believe that any problems with the bowels need to be addressed by trying a strict gluten-free diet first, and if that doesn't work, also eliminating all dairy, and if that doesn't do the job, only then investigate further.   Juicing is nice, but if there's a sensitivity to gluten (95% of all cases go undiagnosed, since current diagnostic tools catch it only when there's already necrotic processes taking place in the gut), it won't help much. 

 

I am a big fan of green juices, but in season.  Winter is not the season for this, even in California.  In winter, I go for soups... 

[blue eyed snake]

Right now I can't handle a lot of fibre because my bowels were damaged by a serious illness. I'm juicing the veggies I can't eat whole in order to get the nutrition, while eating others that I can handle as salads. So I'm still getting some roughage in my diet.

 

Beets and carrots having a higher glycemic index makes sense. That would mean I have been starting my day with an insulin spike followed by a crash. Oopsies...

 

Beets are so nutritious though

 

 

As mentioned previously, I can't do fiber due to the state of my bowels. In fact, I might have to stop eating the small salads I've been making because today there was blood in my stool... bummer.

 

Good idea, adding avocado or banana... I suppose I could do the juicing part and then add it to a blender with the fatty fruits.

 

As for demulcents (slimy things)... they wreak havoc, so I avoid them. Flax is a no go, as is kefir due to casein in the dairy, and even water kefir has too much sugar. I guess I could do coconut kefir but the probiotic content just isn't the same.

 

 

lotta recognition here...

 

I agree totally with taomeows remark about gluten and dairy, and add all soyproducts and spinach to it. in many people they trigger the same unwanted cascade of ' vague' illness.

oats is a nogo too, almost always contaminated with gluten, made a hell of a difference when I stopped eating it.

 

when your gut cannot handle raw veggies ( as mine) I would not try juicing, I go for soups. the cooking does diminish the vitamincontent but on the other hand it makes it much easier to digest for your compromised gut. I've been living on thick, pureed soups for months. if fiber-content then still causes problems you might try to add your fresh juice to the soup and then bring to the boil again. that gives a lot more nutrients to your soup without the fiber and without the rawness.

 

Beetjuice, i did not know what TM wrote but thank her heartily, it agrees with my intuition. If you can handle fermented foods ( not everybody can, there is a good theoretical explanation for it but I'm sorry to say I've forgotten it and even when I could find the source it be in dutch) you could try to make fermented beetjuice. recepy  to be found on the internet. it's easy really, the only glitch is to find a place in your home that has the right temperature.

You wash the beets, but not too thoroughly, you want the dirt-bacteria to flourish, ( like when you were a child, sucking your bleeding finger and at the same time sucking up some earthy bacteria :-) Make a jar with lukewarm water, add salt, some applevinegar, add the cutup beets, some garlic glove cut in two and some ginger. leave for some days. If it works you get a nice tasty red liquid to be drunk with the meals.

 

further to aid your gutlining I'd advise to drink broth, chicken/calve/bone  as long as it gives a nice gelling effect. You can also buy gelatine

 http://eu.iherb.com/Great-Lakes-Gelatin-Co-Beef-Hide-Gelatin-Collagen-Joint-Care-Unflavored-16-oz-454-g/52775

 

For probiotics i've used this one, it's reasonably priced, high dosed ( i used only half and later only quarter capsules). But the quality is high, they use well researched bacterial strains that are guaranteed to reach the gut.

http://eu.iherb.com/California-Gold-Nutrition-LactoBif-Probiotics-5-Billion-CFU-10-Veggie-Caps/64008  (in the 'try and save ' )

 

take good care of yourself,

 

love BES

 

edit,

regarding fiber, i find that i can handle soluble fiber but too much not-soluble fiber gives problems, look up a list somewhere and see whether it rings a bell. Also I wonder about using citrus-fruit, it's pretty sharp, my gut does not like it.

Edited October 30, 2016 by blue eyed snake

[beingnature]

I would try it with fruits, greens and maybe put some oil into it.I was on a rawfood diet and after a while i got this strange feeling from root vegetables.So i lived of fruits, nuts, seeds and greens.

Edited November 20, 2016 by NATURE BEEING

[Orion]

I discovered that I had an underlying candida problem that I thought I had nixed in the beginning of summer. It has been affecting my absorption and probably my gut permeability. I'm going to try juicing again after this issue is dealt with.

 

Interesting re: beet juice, and also I never thought to add veggie juice to pre-made soup and then reheat. That's brilliant!

 

A friend who is a health practitioner recommended that I start taking digestive enzymes, a very basic supplement. I have always been wary of those but I decided to give it a go. A few days in I had some kind of herx reaction that is hard to define. My face broke out and I had scaly skin and flakiness appearing everywhere, but it didn't feel like a traditional herx die off. The reaction was very similar to what happened when I dove into the juicing, minus the blood sugar spikes.

 

I'm wondering if the enzymes have broken down something that has been inhibiting my digestion, like some kind of metabolic garbage. I have been eating cooked food for months and maybe I needed to re-introduce enzyme rich foods more slowly. My face is really clear now and even old scars are starting to turn pink and heal. I'm certainly absorbing better.

 

I'm celiac so I never eat gluten, and dairy is a no-go because of casein. I make home made kefir and separate the curds and whey so that I can use the whey for probiotic content here and there, but I can only do small doses. I used to be able to eat dairy and gluten no problem but since the gut issues of the past 3 years I have many food allergies.

 

Dysbiosis really is a B and it is the root of all my woes, but it was 7-8 years in the making so I'm not going to fix it overnight. This all started because I ignorantly took antibiotics while I was in China, vaccines before I went there, and then subsequently exposed myself to many gut infections from the poor sanitation there. I have been reeling ever since. I feel like my body has gone back to infancy in its gut development.

 

I was thinking recently about how mother's milk is part of what introduces the initial gut flora into an infant's body and initializes the digestion. I'm wondering if maybe somewhere down the line I should drink raw goat's milk or raw cow's milk to get a similar effect happening. I know how the immune system works though... the memory B cells that remember food allergies hang out in the bone marrow for years and even one exposure restarts the immune process all over again. So I'm concerned that if I suddenly do dairy again I might walk into an inflammatory situation.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Orion

[beingnature]

For a good gut flora i recommend smoothies with wildherbs (do not wash them) and make the smoothies really thin, also add some flaxseeds for the slime, its like a plaster for your stomach and gut.i also recommend papaya or even fermented papaya (smells like childrens poo) haha.Furthermore nutmilks which also ferment sour. Best wishes!

[blue eyed snake]

 

 

I was thinking recently about how mother's milk is part of what introduces the initial gut flora into an infant's body and initializes the digestion. I'm wondering if maybe somewhere down the line I should drink raw goat's milk or raw cow's milk to get a similar effect happening. I know how the immune system works though... the memory B cells that remember food allergies hang out in the bone marrow for years and even one exposure restarts the immune process all over again. So I'm concerned that if I suddenly do dairy again I might walk into an inflammatory situation.

 

 

you could try lactobacillus rhamnosus, that's a very important starter in a babies life.

 

er ..does some searching....

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25760553

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26617183

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19447972

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274729179_Bugs_for_atopy_The_Lactobacillus_rhamnosus_GG_strategy_for_food_allergy_prevention_and_treatment_in_children

 

love BES